• 💖 [Donate To Keep MyPTSD Online] 💖 Every contribution, no matter how small, fuels our mission and helps us continue to provide peer-to-peer services. Your generosity keeps us independent and available freely to the world. MyPTSD closes if we can't reach our annual goal.

When A Narcissist Is 'good'

Status
Not open for further replies.
I keep trying to figure this out. Do they know? Are they aware? My SO says yes, they absolutely kno...

It's such an insidious process when exposure to pathological behavior starts in early childhood, because it isnt just exposure, its being incorporated into the perpetrators agenda. The natural primal instincts of children is to bond with a parent in a way that doesnt entirely leave them separate beings, that comes later in child development. The consciousness of a child is ' if mom or dad is okay, then I am ok '. That's how the mental and and emotional gymnastics begin, in later years when average young adults would be feeling out challenging a parents reality and coping systems to form a separate identity, it doesnt happen smoothly for these kids.

Generally it becomes an all or nothing situation based on total alliance with or total defection from the parent, because thats what an NPD will demand. Even so much as looking like you're considering the options with clarity will create an instinctual backlash from the parent and other siblings who will sense you are doing that. I personally dont see any difference in this process for kids and people who are struggling to leave a cult like church. I've been involved in both and the experience is identical.

It's so easy to see when a church leader is nuts and wonder why someone doesnt just walk away. But thats from someone who had at least some fully formed self identity before they looked at it. When you dont, the primal fear that you may not exist or survive without your person thats nuts, overwhelms the willingness to take the risk.
 
I personally dont see any difference in this process for kids and people who are struggling to leave a cult like church.
I noticed my ex's cult leadership persona before I left him. I had no idea how strong it was and where it would leave my children. Or me for that matter.
 
@shimmerz, I wanted to post this here as it's very appropriate here as well as in my situation.

My therapist read this today and he did, not just for me, but your kids' situation (not actually them nor any details about them, just the situation as a hypothicial) came up in discussion. He understands Stolkholm very well and all of the new studies and new findings. It is being expanded as they are finding that more than just the kidnapped are showing signs of specifically Stolkholm.

My mom & step dad were also narcissists and maybe thats why, as of late, Im coming to the defense of an NPD individual.

Some qutoes that are rather important:

Since then, studies have revealed that this behaviour (positive attachment) in the captives does indeed occur in many situations, for example; narcissistic abuse, battering (men and women), abused children, incest victims, rape victims, cult members, prison camps, pimp-procured prostitutes, prisoners of war, etc.

Stockholm Syndrome knows no bounds, it can be found in all kinds of interpersonal relationships in the context of social, cultural and other influences; For example, families, intimate relationships, friendships, marriage, parent-child, the workplace, social clubs, associations, schools, Churches, Cults etc.

This phenomenon is so wide-spread, that in fact, virtually anyone can become a victim of Stockholm Syndrome, it seems that all that is required is the four following conditions be present:

1. That there is a perceived threat to the captive’s existence, and they fervently believe that the captor will carry out that threat.
2. That the captor experiences small kindnesses from their captor within a context of terror.
3. That the captor is isolated from any other perspectives other than those of their captor.
4. That the captive perceives they have an inability to escape

Desperate to be understood, she may even try to defend her feelings by saying something like, “I know it doesn’t make sense, but I just love him”.

Which is something I said A LOT in therapy. I know it doesnt make sense but they were right and did the right thing. I justified it that way a lot.

I dont want to quote too much, so here's the link. Its a GREAT read!

The Place of Stockholm Syndrome In Narcissistic Victim Syndrome

I will take this to my diary too as I need to write more specifically about myself and my trauma, but wanted to post it here too as it fits here too.

Hope this helps!
 
I don't know how I missed this Lost, but I really - so much - appreciate your and your Therapist's thinking of me. Truly. What a beautiful gesture.

I will read the link asap. I did actually find that list and was surprised at how loose it was. I am really looking forward to reading your link.
Much love
Much light
Shimmerz
 
@shimmerz
There is much I want to say but I keep not being able to say it. That goes for your other current thread too. Thank you for both. They are very helpful to me too. Shall hopefully read properly and answer soon.

I hope you are finding them helpful and they bring you some much deserved peace.
 
I validate what I have read and been able to take in, which is not a lot today. Very tired. But I wanted to say you are right, as I see it so far, and I always welcome a chance to make some sense of life after an NPD person nearly destroys one's mind.

As I see it now: The abuse of the children, that lays the ground. Later, the abuse changes to mental control via manipulation. The NPD offers $ in various forms, dangles many small token carrots and large ones for later, if the child conforms enough to the role the NPD has decided that this child-adult should now play in his or her grand drama.

The child is filled with hurt at the ego level, which inevitably feeds a secret desire for justice or revenge, and uses self-deception to say "I'm getting reparations for the abuse!" and the child-adult now believes that what is really happening is that she now has some power and is "blackmailing" the parent: "I'm taking more than what I should from this parent, but I deserve it." "I'm only taking what I deserve for what I've endured."

One adult-child now demands things for her sibling: "We all deserve it because we all feel entitled." This began very young, and feeds a self-perception as a justice-giving mediator for the siblings. As soon as the child begins to see the parent is never consistent, fair, or honest, then they also see no way to be those things openly and win. They begin to play the game. They have absolutely no choice in the matter. You do your best to be a good person and stand for some ideal, but you cannot do it entirely right. You begin to feel you cannot let your true self be out, for it will be further twisted by the NPDs. It goes into hiding from the abuse and the NPD's amoral, self-worship.

This entitlement you speak of is a sense of "being owed." It's justified by the continued distorted reality that the mellowed out, bloated, rich NPD mid-life Piggy Bank without a soul actively Projects and keeps the adult-child feeling "sick" and under his/her spell. The NPD is a mirror for the child. He only sees self-worship as a way to fight fire with fire.

The big carrot is the promise of the Piggy bank NPD's mortality. The abusive-doting Piggy Bank father promises continuously to someday die, and leave the Happiness that he stole from his children, their original selves, their true personalties, to them along with Merc and a fat bank account. This is, naturally, the grand-daddy of the lies. It was implied this whole time. The NPD knows they have turned the child almost as NPD as them by buying them into their distorted world.

These adult-children say "I can wait another day to be me, can't I? For all that?"

But by the time Piggy dies, it will be too late, and the adult-child will discover that he has actually become his father, and none of them stood up and asserted his right to be himself. It seemed an impossible task, and besides, he couldn't afford it, emotionally, financially, imaginatively...cannot be done.

There is little I wish to quote from the Bible, having been raped by men who preached it before I could read it.

But I do agree with what I interpret from this line:

Mark 8:36
For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?

Ironically, no man who ever read that line out had a soul, so they should know, eh?

And that is precisely the thought I had to hold onto to walk away and decide that there is no price I am willing to put on my own soul. I'd rather leave my children financially average and themselves than rich and not themselves. For then, at least they have a fighting chance at happiness. As a mom with PTSD, I don't know what I can leave them that won't in some way also be tainted, but I am trying to sort things out and give them the best odds at a good life that I can.

I started by cutting out the abusers 100% and telling them they are better off safe and happy than hoping to inherit from evil bastards.
 
The hook with their father, is that he has financially supported them all of their lives
I would say that Narcissism is never good. As you stated he has financially supported them all their lives. If needed could they support themselves, or has he made them so dependent on him that it continues to feed his ego? If this is the case, then even supporting them is all about him.
 
If needed could they support themselves, or has he made them so dependent on him that it continues to feed his ego?
Yes. ^^^^ He has literally crippled them financially. Two of them work for him and they rely on him to keep their houses/cars/means of life. The youngest one has the best chance of escaping. He works, and is successful in a different line of work.
As you stated he has financially supported them all their lives.
Nope, not quite. This was my mistake, as I just looked at my OP again and did say that. To clarify, I supported them until their father wanted them. I find it interesting that I would have made this mistake. Anyway, their father wanted them when they were old enough to drive cars. Then they were wined and dined with promises of cell phones, jeans that cost 500 or more, and of course, their new car.
The ones he wasn't wining and dining (because they were too young) were told that they couldn't have the phones, the clothes etc because 'I didn't know how to appreciate what they had'. So they spent 2 years yearning..... yearning.

If this is the case, then even supporting them is all about him.
Yes, everything is about him. Always. Thanks for this Russ, I had forgotten that this will always be the bottom line. This is really helpful.

I think she meant "good" in the sense that it superficially looks good.
Or her kids thinks he's always good no matter what.
Scout, this may seem like splitting hairs, but it is a really important part of the dynamic. If something is obviously 'bad' on the part of the father, others can see it. However, the kids cannot process it so they need to make it someone else's bad. So they need to change their sense of reality to fit that. And they get ENRAGED (1 of them) or incredibly VINDICTIVE (the 2nd one of them) when their sense of reality towards their father is challenged. And it is directed at me, when I am available, which as a mother, of course, I had always made myself available. That was a mistake.

That is why this thread is so damned helpful. Because I can hear and acknowledge what this dynamic is through your experiences, questions, ideas. I was trapped in this and was very alone until very recently. I can't tell you how I appreciate each and every one of your responses.

This is a very primal double bind. I can't walk away from being a mother but am being punished for 'being a mother'. And I can see that there may be strategies here for my own self preservation as well as understanding what the chances are for not harming my grandchildren in this very real war.
 
Last edited:
I just wanted to let everyone know that after having seen the input in this thread I was finally able to broach the topic of what my son's plans were insofar as my granddaughters. Given your input, ideas, experiences, I was able to come out of my own pain with this and see his instead. It changed completely how I spoke with him and we got somewhere.

I have some really serious decisions to make about this whole issue and will be attempting to make those plans dynamic rather than static. I also don't want to trigger them into something that is too much for them mentally. I feel much more prepared for this because of you all.

Abstract, Muse, your posts last night brought me to tears. The pain that I can hear yet your willingness to share with me. I can't tell you how that feels to me.

I am so sorry for all of you who have suffered through this. I have watched it as a parent and it is really difficult seeing their suffering through this as they are so damned impermeable. Thank you for helping me gain some real life insight into this. I cherish you all.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top