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News Manchester this time

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It is sad to see more acts of violence, the loss of life and the injuries suffered by the victims. Throughout history, human beings have marginalized groups based upon religion, nationality, sex, culture, etc. and the group with the power or those seeking to further their own agenda do so utilizing whatever means and any justification. Let's face it, one man's terrorist may be another man's freedom fighter.

Perhaps we all need to broaden our own scope of how we see the world. We are just not residents of a town, citizen's of a country, but we are all members of this thing called the human race and share one planet. Instead of pointing fingers and finding blame, what can be done to make it better?

I find it amazing that the three largest monotheistic religions Judaism, Christianity, and Islam share so many common tenets/beliefs, but it is how they are taken in or out of context and how they are used to support whatever radical agenda certain sects have at that time. There are also some wonderful tenets upon which many of our own countries have based laws or established what we call ethics.

No answers here, just questions. Can't change the world, but I can be a good citizen of the world and be fair, kind, charitable, honest, etc. Not going to marginalize any group as I have friends that are Muslim and they are as shocked and dismayed by the violence as I am. We are all mother's who worry about the world our children and grandchildren will be left with. Maybe that is where we all need to start, is with the common ground and build from there.
 
Perhaps we all need to broaden our own scope of how we see the world. We are just not residents of a town, citizen's of a country, but we are all members of this thing called the human race and share one planet. Instead of pointing fingers and finding blame, what can be done to make it better?
This.
Yes, this.
This is what matters. This is the lesson to be learned here.
Acts of violence such as this must never be allowed to turn good people to blind hatred. To paint people we don't know as bad, because of the actions of a few. To do so, is to fuel the hatred and encourage the violence.
To do so, is to lose this "war" on terror.

This is not a war which can be fought with guns, bombs, gas, fear, hate and death. These things only perpetuate it.
When we stop seeing other people as people, because they prey on a mat facing east. Or kneel to a king in rags, nailed to a cross. Or in a synagogue wearing a Kippah.
This is when we stop being good people.

The people who commit these atrocities, who kill innocent children. They didn't choose them as the targets because they don't like children, or because they felt these kids did anything wrong. No. They were chosen because WE care about children. Often more than we care about ourselves.

What better way to make hatred, than to attack those who cannot protect themselves?
The ones who are supposed to be under our protection. The best possible target, because it is so easy to justify the hatred.
Who doesn't want to take revenge on a bunch of baby killers?

The trap is that the weapons of revenge are too broad, the targets too vague. More harm will be done. Nothing will change and more babies will die and for what?
The old excuses of God and country?
Pointing fingers at one another in a desperate hope to shovel the hurt and shame onto someone else?

It's never worked before, but maybe this time it will right?

Bah! What a f*cking waste all of this is.
Those kids are dead. So now let's all get pissed off and fight, cause that'll fix everything. Killing someone else's kids will bring them back to life right? Making more people weep in anguish will make us feel better and make this world a better place. Right?...

Sorry, I am a tad upset reading this nonsense about religious beliefs and historical warfare argument in a thread about dead children.

I was glad to read @intothelight's post. As it's so far been the only thing in here that has given me any hope.
 
@Neverthesame @intothelight and everyone else that has posted in this thread.

While I agree that killing is wrong. What exactly do we do when someone walks into a place, and blows themselves up and kills 20 other people and injuries 50 others. Or when they hyjack our planes and kill 3000. Or when they steal a boat, fill it with explosives and drive it into a ship full of people? What do we do? Turn our heads and walk away. Mourn our dead and say, well that felt good, it's over and go on with life?

Killing is wrong, but HOW do we convey it to the ones that want to kill us? HOW????
 
I don't think anyone is advocating turning our heads and walking away. And even if Western countries all stopped military operations in the Middle East right now, it would do nothing to stop these attacks. But intensifying airstrikes and military operations would also do nothing to stop them. We're way past the point where anything we can do will stop terrorists. They know killing is wrong, that's why they do it. The more carnage, the better. There's absolutely nothing we can do at this point except try to prevent attacks, but that's impossible. We will never develop a guaranteed way to prevent a lunatic from blowing himself up in a public place. Never. And more worrying, perhaps, is the fact that these lunatics are not limited to the Middle East. ISIS has successfully recruited young Western college students with no history of religious fanaticism and no ties to the Middle East. How? I honestly don't know. Nobody has the answers.
 
Be vigilant, but not vigilante. I can't answer the question, but war, terrorists acts, etc. have many reasons and there are many core problems in the world. I guess we find the core issues and do what we can to make it better. Perhaps that is the attitude we all and our governments should have. Nothing will ever be perfect, but it can be better.
 
@Casey_03 I never said that anyone was advocating "turning our heads". Just making that statement because without retaliation, what does someone do, other than turn our heads? Do we make a plea to talk to them? Would they even consider sitting down with us to talk?

This crazy behavior really needs to stop. The killing of innocent people needs to stop. Human suicide bombers need to stop. But HOW??? This has become way beyond unimaginable.

Yes @intothelight I agree being vigilant helps, but they are winning that war too, as they have learned to "blend" into our society and the recruit people from the same countries that they attack.

Just so sick to my stomach from all the needless killing.
 
Catholicism is full of contradictions:
Would you like to prove your case/position here?
Bible Inconsistencies - Bible Contradictions

As for wealth, whilst the heads of states and royal families are the wealthiest in the world, that does not apply to the rest of the countries citizens. Yes, you have a top, middle and lower class, like most countries, but the middle class is quite small too, and sinking over the decades. The rich are literally robbing the countries and people poor, then shifting the assets offshore and doing it quite secretly.

"the great disparity in wealth in Arab countries can be inferred from corporate data. According to an OECD paper the boards of directors of some of the largest companies in the Middle East and North Africa are made up of mostly government officials or royal family members. The 20 or so largest companies in most Gulf states, Egypt, Lebanon, and Morocco are not listed on the stock exchanges of these countries. Instead, they are either firms privately owned by prominent families or state-owned firms."
How Unequal are Arab Countries? | Brookings Institution

Dictatorship rules the Middle East.

Waiting patiently for your information now to read further, as that took 5 minutes to evidence, which you have not yet provided to my original question, yet continue argumentative rhetoric nonsense nonetheless.

@The Albatross, I do not believe I'm asking for much. You made a strong, formed statement, you did not say it was your opinion, so I am asking to please evidence this as I would like to read the information that you formed such a statement upon. Don't troll please, or I will thread ban you... I'm not asking for a first born... just the data to read that you formed your statement please.
 
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I have no interest in participating further as this has already ranged well away from the "topic" as expressed by the OP or continuing from your posts to descend into whatever series of sub arguments and you decide you'd like to have. Illogical fallacies (red herring, cause and effect, special pleading/double standard) aren't the stuff discussions are made of. Widening the scope of discussion rather than narrowing it only takes it further off topic. Have at it and knock yourself out.
 
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True, but when I took a look into historical notions of this, it was these very countries attacked who were already actively involved in either their country (invasions and such) or were actively part of the religious war already. The Middle East has had certain European countries involved in their thousand years war. The US, UK, Australia, et cetera, were not

Um... I feel like you might be forgetting a century or so? Feels like you jumped from the Golden Age of Islam (where none of us were involved in the moorish conquest of Europe) and picking back up again in about 2000CE? That skips a few important things. Just some very loose highlights:

- British Empire v Ottoman Turks
- 1882-1914 British Empire supplanting the Turkish rule of Egypt
- Gordon (and others) v Mujahideen (Mad Mahdi) & others
- The not exactly small matter of the Suez Canal
- Northern African / Arab front (Sinai Palestine campaign) in WWI (as well as Gallipoli, since Ottomans)
- British Occupation of Palestine (1920-1948)
- Egyptian Independence from UK 1922
- UK essentially creates Saudi Arabia (waves at TE Lawrence) 1932
- WWII Middle East Theater
- Israel (1948-Present ... US becomes major player in Middle East)
- Arab-Israeli Conflict
- Cold War Era (whole lotta bullshit US & UK involved in, both in Middle East -Israel, Egypt, Lebanon, Iran, Afghanistan- & with the mujahideen in SE Asia) 1940s-1980s
- First US-Iraq War (Desert Shield/Storm 1990-91) IDK what number for UK, they've been in and out of Iraq for centuries.
- Yugoslav Wars 1990s Bosnia. Kosovo.
 
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I feel like you might be forgetting a century or so?
List of wars involving the United States - Wikipedia

No... just didn't worry about including the 20th century, as that is where everything started going wrong with other countries involving themselves. American actions in that time for Middle East was not really war, more specific goals were being met in most (a leader problem that was quickly victorious and ousted and the US left again). Not invasion and occupy. The Commonwealth (UK) had a very large issue in taking control of other countries and making them part of the Commonwealth, which was in essence dismantled at the end of WW2, where each country then became independent, most remained as part of the larger Commonwealth, to my knowledge.

It does make me laugh the US and UK wars amongst... then they come together to be allies.

1990 is where it started -- where the Middle East countries told the US to stay out of their fighting otherwise all shit is going to break lose. Didn't happen, obviously, (invasion and occupy) and thus retaliation with 2001 was a significant retaliation for what is, our own stupidity as allied nations.
 
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1990 is where it started -- where the Middle East countries told the US to stay out of their fighting otherwise all shit is going to break lose. Didn't happen, obviously, (invasion and occupy) and thus retaliation with 2001 was a significant retaliation for what is, our own stupidity as allied nations.

Going to have to agree with this and offer a useless apology for this imperious country (past and present) I was born into.
 
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