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At the 11th hour on the 11th day of the 11th month

Discussion in 'Military & Emergency Services' started by crazydiamond47, Nov 11, 2017.

  1. crazydiamond47

    crazydiamond47 Active Member

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    We will remember them.

    It's Remembrance Sunday tomorrow here in old Blighty but we always observe a minute's silence on the actual day the guns fell silent on the Western Front of the First World War exactly 100 years ago today.

    I would like to ask everyone on this website to join me in thanking our brave service men and women for their courage service heroism and sacrifice, particularly those who made the ultimate sacrifice and gave their lives so we can all enjoy the freedom we have today, in all the armed conflicts since the First World War, including the Second World War, the Falklands War, Iraq, Afghanistan, the Troubles in Northern Ireland and any others I may have overlooked.

    This is very close to my heart on a personal level because my maternal grandfather fought in the Second World War and won medals for his bravery. However according to other members of the family he didn't come home the same man as he was before he went off to war because of what we now know to be PTSD. In those days it was called shell shock or battle fatigue.

    He had been under hostile fire relentlessly and had witnessed a couple of his comrades being blown to pieces in front of his very eyes. I never met my grandad because he died 2 years before I was born. I suspect he was a child abuser who hurt my mum when he came back from the war (she was only a baby when he was conscripted and she was 6 years old when he returned from serving) but I don't know that for certain. However if he was, perhaps it only happened because of how unhinged he was because of the terrible things he had experienced and seen during the war.

    I've heard of this happening with other former service people. Including my father in law who was a Japanese POW in that same conflict. He came home and terrorised his wife and kids for the same reason. I'm not making excuses for either him or my grandad because abuse is wrong which ever way you want to slice it but when you put it into context I for one have more understanding and compassion for those poor tortured men and everyone who suffered because of the deep pain and fear they were taking out on their families after being traumatised themselves in that war.

    Because war affects everyone. Whilst I am eternally grateful for my grandad and father in law for their part in stopping Hitler and the Nazi's from imposing their particular brand of extremism on everyone 70 years ago I can't help but wonder how different all our lives would have turned out if not for the knock on effect that war has had on all the generations since. And sadly it's still going on today in regards to the war against IS and their extremism also. They bomb us, and rape our women and children, and we do it right back. Where's it all going to end? Actual physical combat in my opinion should be avoided at all costs wherever possible. It really should only be the absolute last resort to resolving conflict. I'm no bleeding heart or artist or pacifist or even a conscientious objector but I favour negotiation and diplomacy and sanctions over death bloodshed and trauma. And when that fails what have you got left?

    I will end this with a short extract from my favourite Wilfred Owen poem. He was a soldier in the Great War.

    They shall not weary
    Nor age condemn
    At the going down of the sun
    And in the morning
    We will remember them.

    With gratitude but also deep sorrow

    Crazydiamond47
     
    hodge, Rain, Akhos and 2 others like this.
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  3. Sighs

    Sighs Not a Fairytale Moderator

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    Lest we forget... those that did not come home and those that did. And those that continue to suffer daily from their combat experience.

    I have found that the general public would rather eulogise dead soldiers than help living soldiers.

    I may just be in a grumpy mood following a particularly crappy Remembrance Day weekend but are you accusing UN soldiers of raping IS women and children? Is there any proof of this?
     
    leehalf and Rain like this.
  4. crazydiamond47

    crazydiamond47 Active Member

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    Oh no no no no!!! I wasn't accusing any particular set of soldiers of doing anything to anyone, I was simply talking in very general terms about the tit for tat nature of war overall. You know, like fighting fire with fire instead of finding the right kind of 'extinguisher' in diplomatic terms to put that fire out. I remember a film from the 80s called War Games and it was about this young boy playing chess with a computer that was in charge of launching nuclear missiles against the then USSR. If the boy lost the game the computer would start WW3. In the end they reached checkmate and the computer said 'the only way to win is to not play at all'. And so WW3 was averted and everyone lived happily ever after. The point I'm making is it takes 2 sides to have a fight or war. If one side ain't playing then there is no fight or war. You apply this in the microcosm or on a larger scale. In personal battles or on the world stage internationally. The same principle applies. It even happens here on these boards. Someone says the wrong thing and other people take it so personally. The only way to 'win' in that situation is to walk away and shut up. Don't react whatsoever. I'm sure you see my point. I'm sorry you were feeling grumpy the other day. I hope you're feeling better now. And yes I agree that not enough support is given to returning soldiers who are injured and traumatised. They are the ones who need help, we can't do anything for the dead because, well, they are dead. All I was saying was to not let their sacrifice be in vain. I will leave it there in case I upset anyone else who might misconstrue my meaning or demand 'proof' of things I shouldn't have to 'prove'. When all that's really needed is some good sense and cool logic. Cheers xx
     
    Buttercup and hodge like this.
  5. Friday

    Friday Raise Hell Moderator

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    Yep. We call that conquest, or genocide, depending on what the side who is playing wants.

    Some things are worth fighting for.
     
    leehalf, RCD_VET, Sighs and 2 others like this.
  6. CatInTree

    CatInTree Active Member

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    So all sides except one stop fighting. And what about the people that side massacre? You can apply your argument to disagreements on this site, not to genocides.
     
    leehalf and Sighs like this.
  7. crazydiamond47

    crazydiamond47 Active Member

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    I wasn't even arguing with anybody. But it seems some people on this site would start an argument with the stones in the street to suit their spikey feelings. It's obvious there's a few people on here that are going to disagree with me whatever I say or however much sense what I say makes. I have to wonder why.
     
  8. hodge

    hodge I'm a VIP Premium Member

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    I think you make sense, @crazydiamond47. It may help to just be aware that all of us here have PTSD and struggle with not starting an argument with stones in the street, eh?
     
    leehalf and crazydiamond47 like this.
  9. crazydiamond47

    crazydiamond47 Active Member

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    Thanks for your support @hodge yes I know we all have PTSD or we wouldn't need to be here. That does include me by the way. But I can't understand why I seem to get so many people's backs up on here. Or why those people seem to think it's OK to have a pop at me when all I'm doing is expressing a personal opinion. It's never my intention to upset anyone here at all. But certain factions seem to think I do have that intention. And I don't know why. I'm thinking that perhaps it's because they've decided I'm a trouble maker or rabble rouser because of previous somewhat controversial threads I've started. And that on those threads I defended myself when still other people attacked me for merely speaking my truth, the truth of my life that lead to the diagnosis I have of C-PTSD in the first place. I belong here as much as the next person but it seems some people don't want me here because I can be rather challenging at times, but only about matters that have significant personal meaning to me. I appreciate that other people will have different opinions to me because of different experiences they've had and I'm absolutely fine with that, I totally respect it. But I don't seem to command the same sort of respect in return for some unknown reason. I know that I haven't been the most consistent or credible member of the boards here, but you can put that down to cognitive distortions and psychosis due to the PTSD. At least I know that's what it was even if other people here think it's something else. I wish others would understand me as I try to understand them. After all we're all in the same boat with this horrible illness aren't we? So, is there really any need for us to be all fighting amongst ourselves? When we should be fighting our common enemy which to my mind is PTSD.

    I'm going to leave it here. I'm also going to unwatch this thread. I don't want to see any more replies that have the potential to upset and trigger me into getting angry again (inappropriate rage, again, part of the PTSD). I can't control what other people say but I can control my reaction to it. Cheers all xx
     
    Buttercup and Bristol like this.
  10. CatInTree

    CatInTree Active Member

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    Okay, I've never spoken to you before and I don't like the implication that I'm saying that genocides are something worth fighting against because of some vendetta against your presence on this forum.

    Your comment implies that the right thing to do is walk away when there's some crime against humanity going on and I happen to have taken anyone who stands up against it as my personal role model. This has nothing to do with your presence here.

    I'm also I'm watching this, but I wanted my truth out as I do not have an agenda against anyone here.
     
    leehalf likes this.
  11. Sighs

    Sighs Not a Fairytale Moderator

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    @crazydiamond47 - I haven't seen your other threads or posts. I was in no way "having a pop at you". Nor, in my opinion, was anyone else on this thread.

    People were challenging your opinion. Politely and respectfully. Rwanda is a perfect example where the UN were there in "observer" mode only and duly observed a genocide. One of my favourite sayings is that you are entitled to your own opinion but you are not entitled to your own facts.
     
  12. RCD_VET

    RCD_VET Member

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    A totally birds-eye view of this thread. We would all love to have not been part of war and have lived in peace but that was not our reality. This exact forum is for military & emergency services. That precise group of people find great PRIDE in how they were/are able to serve the people of their country. By coming and saying it should all have been avoided and there is no purpose to war will automatically put people here on edge. In a perfect world, it does take two to fight. We've all seen first hand the world is not perfect and if one side did totally stand down I'm sure the outcome would be awful! In reading the responses I can also agree that they don't seem to be attacking anyone. They may be "harsh and direct" but for any military that is also a challenge we face in our lives daily. We seem harsh and direct at times. Understand who you are talking to and who is talking to you and you can read it without feeling attacked. Read the content and leave any perceived emotion out of the response - a big portion of us don't really have much emotion left anyway so it seems suitable to read everything here like that.
     
    leehalf, Iceman and Friday like this.
  13. leehalf

    leehalf Well-Known Member

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    I think you upset people in this post because you posted it in the MILITARY forum. These are people who "gave all" to their county. That's like going to a rape forum and saying if they weren't wearing that short skirt she wouldn't have been raped.

    My guy joined the service to help people. And he has!! From the genocide in Mogadishu and Rwanda to the Afghan women and children he SAVED.

    To all Veterans, first responders and LEO thanks for all you've done and continue to do. Love you!
     
    Sighs and RCD_VET like this.
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