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Criticism - is it them or you?

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Is it wrong to be upset by "just" tactlessness and judgments about you/something you've done/made? Am I missing the point entirely here, I feel like I must be. :/

I don't think it's ever "wrong" to be upset by something, per se. But it is, however, a choice at some point. Like I can be upset about child rape. Because I believe it to be wrong, I'm all for being absolutely furious about it. That's the whole point : emotions coinciding with my own belief structures. Instead of my emotions being manipulated to change my belief structures.

That's the inverse. If someone wants to criticize my belief that baby rape is wrong? Have at. Go ahead. That's gonna gain exactly zero traction.

They can be as abusive, manipulative, persuasive, calm, rational, obnoxious, persistent, as they like. I don't give a damn. Their criticisms are not gonna touch my belief structures. They're not gonna change the way I feel about myself, or my belief structures... Unless. I. Let. Them.

I chose a pretty set in stone thing to make an example of... But all criticisms fall under the same guidelines. Whether it's about my being late (true or untrue), my being ugly (true or untrue), my being... Anything. The only way that can actually affect me emotionally? Is if I let them. I have to agree to let them influence me.

80's Cult Movie Classic Quote (Labrynth) :

"You have no power over me."
 
it is classical conditioning
Yes, albeit a different subject. Conditioning of any form is a behaviour, and a behaviour can be changed. So whilst you could try and say you have been conditioned to respond this way, this thread outlines that nobody, and I mean nobody, actually controls what you think, conditioning or otherwise. You control... so any excuse that something else is at fault or responsible for the way you think under any situation, is just that, an excuse.

You control your thoughts, nobody else... its that simple. That means you can change your thoughts, which then change your feelings and behaviours.
 
WoW @Lucycat, like x a million. It does make a difference if you're in the developmental stages of life. Been there, done that, and wearing the damn tee shirt....
 
You are the one in control of what you feel, how you feel and when you feel, because all feelings are based on what you think at any given time. Nobody controls your brain except you.

Which sums up why I fear CBT - it sounds like a way to make it all my fault. I've spent years prodding the idea that just possibly being abused, raped, assaulted and all the rest isn't my fault and then apparently I'm going to be told that it actually is and I shouldn't feel bad. Is that why a brisk 12 week course of CBT works so well for the NHS? If you are told emphatically that is is your fault and your choice to feel bad about something you are going to go away and never darken their doors because you are holding yourself responsible and wouldn't like to bother them again.
That said, I'm about to embark on it anyway, because there is so much evidence supporting CBT as an effective treatment.

Aren't there situations when as humans we ARE MEANT to feel bad. When your child dies for instance?
you can change your thoughts, which then change your feelings and behaviours.
I can't imagine any amount of controlling my thoughts changing the physical, all -encompassing sensations of that grief.
 
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this thread outlines that nobody, and I mean nobody, actually controls what you think, conditioning or otherwise. You control... so any excuse that something else is at fault or responsible for the way you think under any situation, is just that, an excuse.
How does this statement match up with a lot of neuroscience and social psychology research which points towards the influence of shared relational & external social experiences upon the brain?
Also what about the mirror neurons effect when we interact with others?
This video covers some recent neuroscience research on the social brain:
 
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this thread outlines that nobody, and I mean nobody, actually controls what you think, conditioning or otherwise.
I wonder what Pavlov's dogs were thinking while they were salivating? Of course we will never know unless we learn to read thoughts. But it is likely to be in the realms of 'food is coming' or maybe there is no associated thought at all. Just a behavioural reaction. But Pavlov is given the credit - not the dog. This is just swimming round in my head at the moment, trying to get into some sort of order.

I do get your point entirely that our healing is within our own control. However It is not that simple or there would be no need for therapists. I can challenge my thoughts but I cannot control the automatic thought in the first place. I am not saying anybody else is controlling it - it is automatic. That is the problem. The automatic switch was programed some time ago.

Which sums up why I fear CBT - it sounds like a way to make it all my fault.
My T works in a team - the majority of therapists within his team do CBT. My T does not. He takes on the difficult cases that are not expected to respond to CBT. There is much written about the success of CBT but also so much about those for whom it is not deemed appropriate. It is not a one-size-fits-all therapy. I have recently undertaken a course in CBT for me to use with my own client caseload. However the course made it very clear that it is basic for 'simple' problems and issues and if there is no improvement after 4 sessions then the client must be referred to an accredited therapist, which I certainly am not. I agree CBT has its place - and a very valuable place at that. However the notion of telling people to think themselves better is invalidating and even insulting. It does come across as if it is my fault that I am not thinking differently, which actually translates as my fault I have PTSD at all.

This is an interesting thread, which I am sure was it's purpose - thought provoking!
 
CBT is a tool to fight cognitive distortions...thoughts that are not rational based on things happening in the present. It isn't a means to discount or invalidate thoughts or emotions that are entirely appropriate based on the present.

Aren't there situations when as humans we ARE MEANT to feel bad. When your child dies for instance?

Yes, grief is a normal response to loss and it is a necessary process and it is normal to feel pain and loss. However, if the parent that lost the child found themselves crippled by fear that their other children were also going to die, then that is where it would fall into a cognitive distortion and CBT could be utilized to keep those types of thoughts/fears in check.
 
The responses here have been interesting as I believe the intent of this thread was to point out that personalizing criticism to the point of self-detriment can be changed utilizing the tools of CBT. It wasn't a blanket statement that CBT is the "cure" to all of life's ills and people can just think themselves to better or happy. What it can do is help a person get a handle on the thoughts/emotions in response to criticism that are over the top.

When someone we care for or who's opinion we value makes a criticism, it is perfectly normal to feel hurt, disappointed or even at times angry. Maybe their criticism is unfounded or too much emphasis was being placed on pleasing them, but whatever the situation, the thoughts and emotions are there and it doesn't mean there is something wrong with them. I think its important to understand where they are coming from and whether or not the response is appropriate.

However, if a criticism is personalized to the point of "I am worthless", "They don't appreciate anything I do" or generate feelings of self-harm then that thought process/response is way over the top and that is where the tools of CBT can help to mitigate or redirect the thoughts into an appropriate direction. It is just a tool to use to help with recovery and can be very effective when used properly.
 
Which sums up why I fear CBT - it sounds like a way to make it all my fault. I've spent years prodding the idea that just possibly being abused, raped, assaulted and all the rest isn't my fault and then apparently I'm going to be told that it actually is and I shouldn't feel bad.
You're confusing fault and blame for actions of another with what you think. If someone rapes you, that is their doing. You will respond a certain way, obviously... but when you continue to respond negatively all these years later, that now becomes a problem that you need to assess, which is why you're here I would understand, and why you're trying to improve your life to not feel constantly symptomatic and like crap.

At some point you have to stop thinking negatively about things which cause symptoms.
 
the influence of shared relational & external social experiences upon the brain?
Everything influences our brain via our senses... no question about it, but that does not change that you, and only you, are factually, scientifically and medically the only person who controls what you think.
I wonder what Pavlov's dogs were thinking while they were salivating?
You're confusing conditioning with the fact that you are the only person in control of your thoughts. The dog was conditioned to salivate on x being done, however; the dog didn't salivate all the time, especially when not hungry or wanting to sleep. The conditioning only worked when the dog actually wanted the food, being the dog made a thought and then a behaviour based on that thought.
I have recently undertaken a course in CBT for me to use with my own client caseload. However the course made it very clear that it is basic for 'simple' problems and issues and if there is no improvement after 4 sessions then the client must be referred to an accredited therapist, which I certainly am not.
CBT is actually a basic and trauma level therapy. CBT is the leading therapy in the world recommended by the majority of experts for treating depression, anxiety and PTSD, along with many other disorders. I mention those three due to specific relevance here.

Again, there are 10% of people who are either wired to use it correctly, or are just trying to regurgitate some level of training, which typically doesn't result well for the person on the other end.

The leading conglomeration on trauma, today, still recommends CBT, ACT and exposure therapies as the first line treatment for PTSD. Why? Because they have the best longevity results of treatment.

Remember, this specific discussion is about CBT in relation to criticism, and not CBT in relation to conditioning, sociology and other facets of lives influence upon our decisions.

Nothing anyone has mentioned has thus far countered the fact, you and only you decide what you think. Please feel free to prove this wrong if you can, but I doubt anyone could, because unless you can show factual information that someone else is actually controlling your brain and thoughts, then such deviations into other subjects are mute and just distractions to the fact. Like above, the word "influence" is used, and that is a specific word not be confused with actual "control."
 
The Question -- Why is criticism upsetting to some, more than others?
In order to take criticism less sensitively, than I use to, I really needed to take myself through a bunch of steps. (I mean, really, or seriously-as they say today:), after being brought up in a household where, by parental mandate, someone had to be 'to blame' for everything.) Not needing to "blame' someone or myself, for something that I didn't like, really blew my mind-it changed the rules of my universe. If I believed that I was not to 'blame' for my feelings, (because I had good intentions), and if the criticizing person didn't except the blame, then what do you do with 'the blame'?

I wanted to share that in shifting paradigms from, "Other people make me angry/create my emotions", to "I make myself angry/create my emotions", there were a few steps that I needed to go through, to really be able to land unequivocally in the "I create my own emotions" paradigm.
  1. This is the important step. I needed to start thinking that no one is to blame for my feelings, (feelings are created by my conscious and unconscious perceptions. Every person can have their point of view.
  2. Then I needed to remind myself that, I was creating (maybe not consciously, but certainly I was the one generating) the feelings that I was experiencing. (Therefore, at the end of this process, I could also change my feelings.)
  3. Listen to my feelings, and express my feelings, as my truth.
  4. Another important step: To change and to take conscious charge of the thoughts and feelings that I was generating, and to make a shift from feeling bad/blamed, to feeling good about myself, I'd do exercises that shift my mindbody experience of myself, to self-appreciation.
  5. Let my feelings and intellect guide me to what is right for me (e.g. new decisions, non-violent, non-blaming responses, etc).
  6. Then, gather the courage and skill, to turn around an attack (experienced by me) and peacefully communicate my response.
  7. Another huge hurdle: what to do, with the abuse/criticism/and emotions, that I incurred as a child and an adult? First, in my mind, I held the abusers accountable for their behaviors. Secondly, in therapy, as an expressive exercise, I expressed my anger towards them, as if they were in the room with me. Then I felt my pain and tears. Believe me, I wanted to say that the abusers were generating my emotions, but I realized they weren't. And gratefully not, since now, I could generate other emotions, that helped my self-esteem.
  8. So, within the CBT model that I learned, I could still hold other people accountable for abusive actions, but I didn't need to be controlled by them. :confused:, By understanding that they didn't have a license to 'create my feelings', I was able to take the power of my self-esteem back. As I healed, even as I held them accountable for their actions, I naturally generated forgiveness, due to my healing. Moving on, became possible.
  9. I also think that it is important to mention, that the CBT is not a cure all, and end all, for being triggered. It is a means to managing the triggers.
  10. One of the big pay-offs from this non-blame model, is that, in not blaming the other person, I have not escalated many situations, and have diminished the triggering comments, that would've come my way.
  11. A piece of self-defense, that has come from this system, has been to be able to, when triggered by someone's blaming anger, to remind myself, internally, "I am not the cause of that person's anger?" This step, often, doesn't solve my trigger, but it is the first step, in healing the trigger; it can stop the historical echos, that resonate with it, in my head. It helps.
 
Interesting thread.

Criticism can affect me in profound ways, if I allow it to. For me, this comes from having no natural ability to value myself. I really get my sense of self and self-worth only from other people; if I've done well, I think I've earned some value. But if I do poorly, I have less than no value. When I'm just trucking along, I'm at zero.

Learning to value myself just as myself is a challenge I don't even know how to tackle.

But I do know how to work on not allowing outside praise or criticism actually create who I am. I have to hit it with cognitive therapy pretty constantly, and consistently, or it just overwhelms me.

I absolutely believe in the thought-feeling-behavior-mood CBT paradigm. Personally, I find DBT to be a more streamlined set of concepts - but I know I wouldn't use DBT as effectively as I do without having learned and practiced CBT.
 
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