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Does The Hurt Ever Go Away?

Discussion in 'General' started by Nam, Jul 5, 2006.

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  1. Nam

    Nam I'm a VIP

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    You know, I think I'm fairly healed, but I still hurt. Everyday. I still can't talk about it without tears. I can't think about it without fear. I still have sleepless nights (like tonight). Does it ever go away? Anyone out there that has been diagnosed with PTSD not have much emotion when talking about your trauma? I just need to know if it's possible.
     
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  3. piglet

    piglet Well-Known Member

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    Talking about it with no emotion is not necessarily a good thing, so try not to be so hard on yourself!

    I find that I talk about things that have happened to me without any emotion at all. The person I am talking to starts to get upset and I don't get it! For example, my therapist asked me if I was ok at the end of our last session. I was feeling fine and said so. She said that we had talked about some really nasty stuff, so I should look after myself. I was left thinking - well actually, I hardly scraped the surface, if you find THAT nasty, maybe I better shut up about the rest. I'm not even considering talking about some of it, because I just can't.

    You will always feel emotion when talking about your experiences. I think the healing bit is where you can talk about it, but not feel overwhelmed by it. Maybe you cry at a movie where everyone else does and not because it's triggered something from the trauma.
     
  4. YoungAndAngry

    YoungAndAngry Well-Known Member

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    Nam,
    That's a great question...
    Something I'd also like to know the answer to...
    I understand what Piglet is talking about,
    but does it ever "go away"???
     
  5. Nam

    Nam I'm a VIP

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    Isn't it weird how some days it feels like the trauma is right there, in the corner of the room, ready to pounce and other days, it's presence isn't there? I remember an analogy (yes, another one...) that represented my anxiety perfectly. It was about a mad, angry dog, growling intensly in a dark corner of my bedroom to greet me every time I woke up. I couldn't see it but it would be there when I went to sleep and torture my nights with dreams. I was terrified that it would just pounce at me and overtake me. Sometimes, I felt safest, if I didn't tempt the beast; I'd stay in bed all day and all night. No eating, no drinking, no showering. You can't get much deader than that. I'm finding out that the point is not to get rid of the dog forever, but to make it friendly. To actually enjoy looking at the dog as a symbol of all the small triumphs that got me to where I am today. But even still, it sometimes growls at me from the corner, reminding me of it's unpredictalbe demeanor. Why can't it be a small, little, fluffy puppy? Not cujo ready to eat me?
     
  6. Nam

    Nam I'm a VIP

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    This seems impossible to do. I don't know how many traumatic events are still hidden in my mind. I still wait for the next one. And even if I just think about one beating, I have such a hard time coming to terms with it. I am so ANGRY. I now have fists to fight back with but no one to fight but myself and my anger. I'm now an adult that can do something, but there's nothing to do. I wonder if the ultimate goal in healing will be forgiveness. There are so many people that contribute to the development of ptsd and just forgiving one of them is nearly impossible. And I don't think I'll EVER be able to forgive that bastard. :die: I think the toughest part, though, is forgiving myself; forgiving myself for being a kid, that I didn't have the mind nor capacity to protect myself. I can say the words, but it is so hard to execute.
     
  7. anthony

    anthony Renovation Aficionado Founder

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    Nam, this actually demonstrates some healing actually. Not showing emotions is actually the signal that your still quite unwell... and unfortunately, Piglet threw herself in too that one, which I will point out. I used to do exactly what Piglet mentioned, and exactly the same with the counsellor, all of which is a very clear and unmistakable sign with PTSD that things are not all well at all. So, how your emotions stand, I think your doing pretty good. If you didn't cry, or didn't get upset when talking about your trauma, that generally demonstrates some denial, some willingness not to bury and suppress the trauma, and not actually get it all out.

    Sorry Piglet, but I had to pounce on that, because I did exactly the same as what you are with counselling at first, and it wasn't the best thing. My counsellor said the same thing to me, and I thought the exact same thing that you are. I eventually got more and more out of me to her, and she actually trauma sessioned me with techniques that got everything out about my major traumas. All I had to do then was allow time and willingness to do its course with me in that regard. There where no more secrets within me, everything was out, so now I could heal.

    Ok, we covered the emotion already, and again, its better to have it than not have it. I still have little emotion towards things, but am always constantly working on myself in that regard, because each time I show little emotion to dramatic events, I know its not a correct method or response, which can only be doing harm, not good.

    Does it ever go away? Well... PTSD is not curable, however; you can most certainly have a much better time than your having I think Nam. You said the answers to your problems in the above posts, but just may not have realised it, ie.
    You still have hidden trauma! You still have trauma that you haven't gotten out of you. This is the answer to some of your current sleepless issues.

    I really can't stress the importance enough, YOU MUST GET ALL TRAUMA OUT OF YOU, to someone, anyone, write it down, even if you don't remember everything, don't try too, don't make it up or fill in the gaps, just write what you remember, what you most fear and what is making you so angry. Read it, read it and read it. Read it hourly, daily and weekly, until such a time that you continue adding too it all the memories that you missed, as being part of it. At the point you can read it and not add too it, is the point that entire trauma is out of you.

    What will happen during and after this? I have no doubt at all, you will be quite a mess, and possibly even ongoing during the process, and definate after effects. But as you lighten yourself, you will begin to find no more sleepless nights, no more bad nightmares, no more sudden panic attacks, and the list just goes on.

    GET TRAUMA OUT OF YOU IF YOU WANT TO RECOVER!

    You can do trauma therapy with yourself, with a counsellor, with a doctor, with your best friend or partner, online through forums and message boards, in actual fact... pretty much anyway you can think, as long as you are actually getting the trauma out of you. It doesn't matter how, but just that you are. Some people write about it, some can do it with a physician (though this is generally one issue with PTSD, hence why we are all here), do it with someone who has PTSD and understands, some people talk into a recorder then playback their self trauma session, adding too it, thinking about it, crying about it, but just get every bit off trauma off your chest, off your shoulders and don't allow it to be a secret any longer.

    Keeping trauma a secret is most of the issue that causes the daily symptoms. Get it out, and watch how much you get worse, too then suddenly get better with little to no more major symptom crashes.
     
  8. doobie

    doobie Active Member

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    yep i remember going crazy....seemed as soon as i dealt with one trauma bang up comes another, it happened for years...and i just wanted a break from it all tryed the running away, but you can't i found that out quickly, but anthony is right..you need to sit it and get it out..it does get easier in time..but it is so hard to bring it out and begin to see it as less overwhelming though its a grieving process...and you can do it...and do it at your pace..i remember my doc saying to me..gotta laugh at myself now but i wanted to get it all up and out tryed to rush it you know over all at once..not hard to guess what happened to me...crash and burn...so slow and steady.... we are survivors after all...AND MY ONLY WAY OUT IS TO GO SO FAR IN..tori amos...
     
  9. Nam

    Nam I'm a VIP

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    My therapist (my last one, I don't have one now) had a different technique. She didn't believe in forcing the memories out. No suggesting, no hypnosis, nothing. (It drove me nuts!) She focused on my present life and how I dealt with my feelings. My memories appeared when they want to. I just haven't had one for a long time, but I have this gut feeling there's more. I just don't want those feelings anymore. I live with the insomnia for the rest of my life if it means not going through the depths of darkness that I've already traveled. I don't want to put my family through it. I don't want to put myself through it! So I guess it all comes down to fear. Fear of remembering. Even if I tried, I don't think I can remember. I have no control over it. It just comes when it wants to and it's usually triggered by something. So I guess it's like living on the edge. Better then over the edge......
     
  10. Nam

    Nam I'm a VIP

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    Okay, I might be in deeper shit then I thought. I tried to remember the memories that I've already recovered and I couldn't remember them. Totally blank, just that they were bad. I could only remember two of them, the first horrible one and the slapping one. So I went looking for my journal because I had thought I had written down a log of twenty or so memories so far. I found the journal in a box (hadn't unpacked much yet) and read the whole thing (ugh, I was in bad shape..) but couldnt' find the log. Finally way toward the back, dog eared, was the log. I had about ten memories in place before going through ptsd. Just short fragmented, normal memories of life in Asia. Then the other ten were repressed now resurfaced memories. They ranged in dates from July of 2004 to Nov. of 2004. Then I stopped. I haven't written anything down since. By reading the memories, I know I have the worst still in me.
    One of them here:

    Sept 2, 2004 11:00pm
    I was lying with hub on ottoman chair. Had memory of my hips being forced on something hard. it hurt my hip bones. No genital pain, no sight. Trapped. Afraid something will hurt.

    Then the next one I totally had forgotten, but I have a feeling it is in continuation from the one I mentioned above, but I didn't make the conection until now. (I'm shaking a bit.....) Warning, don't read if this bothers you!!

    Sept 24, 2004 morning
    Palm on back of my head pushing down with all fingers and hand, in my hair. I couldn't see but my neck hurt from trying to turn my head to the left. I'm trying to breath, I'm crushed. Anal pain-invasion.

    This one's got me a little shaken up.....shit, shit shit. I haven't shaken like this in a while...miracle that I can type, barely. I realize that I didn't write what triggered that last one. Well, I guess nothing triggered the other one either. Anthony, is this what you mean. Typing, reading, reliving until I remember everything? I don't know if its possible. My therapist warned me of activly retrieving memories...she wants them to come on their own so I'm not overwhelmed. She's afraid of a meltdown/shutdown. She told me once that some memories might be better off buried. And don't you think it's weird that they surfaced at one point, but I reburied them? I totally forgot about these....but I can feel the sensations all over again by reading it. And I thought I was nearly cured!!! HA! What a crock of shit I was feeding myself.
    I'll be okay. Can't be as bad as the first round.
     
  11. anthony

    anthony Renovation Aficionado Founder

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    Nam, all I can say is, "was this counsellor a specialist in PTSD or trauma therapy?" From everything that I know, some parts of what you have said is correct, and some are leading you up the garden path.

    What you said about not intentionally inflicting your memories to come back all at once, is correct, because quite honestly, your body may just not take everything at once. This is the issue with EMDR in serious trauma cases, and where an EMDR specialist won't use it, because the risks of far too much coming back at once can have permanent damaging effects on the brain.

    I remember from your first post, where you said you where past it all, but as you are discovering, no your not. Your constant dreams, nightmares and sleep depravation is a constant key in all this, because if you where truly at one with your past and your trauma, then these sleep issues would not still be so prevalent now. They are the telltail sign that things still are not right with you.

    I know exactly what your saying above, where it is hurting you to discuss the things you just did, but that is the aim. Strange isn't it? But unfortunately, the mind often needs to suffer some pain to help it and the body heal.

    The facts of trauma counselling are, you cannot keep things buried, and by no means are somethings best buried than they are out. Please read this entire transcribed recording on TIR Nam, if you haven't already, and read about how this one unique individual went against the realms of conventional treatment, to actually produce the results, and how it depicts his patients literally breaking down into a mess, to suddenly bring themselves up with nothing left burdening them. Whilst this is not TIR by this person, the sheer conclusive facts of getting trauma out through some controlled means far precedes the disadvantages of keeping it in, repressed or buried.

    Let me just say, every single one of my traumas is out of me through persistance off allowing things to come back to me naturally. I have no more secrets buried, repressed or affecting me anymore, hence I am clearly on the other side of PTSD, with only the occassional small bout of a symptom here or there that may jump me occassionally, though easily controlled now.

    Don't be proud or strong about trauma, allow it to come out, and don't try and repress it again. Instead, as it comes out, deal with it. Analyze it, think about it, write it down immediately, then read it and read it, and see if more memories and thoughts come out as part of reading it. One trauma at at time Nam, not mulitiple. Even though several may arise, take notes of others, but remain focused on one at a time. One trauma can contain several traumas within, which is part of the one main trauma, so that being the exception to the rule.

    As an example Nam, lets use the above previous notes you took. You are now looking at them both, and you think there is a connection to the one event. So these are one trauma. Now... easy said, but very hard to deal with. You need to continue reading these, it is going to hurt you, and you MUST have support within easy reach of you if you fall over and shutdown. You may fall down crying, you may well be an absolute mess, but you will recover, you will deal with it, you will accept it happened and nothing you do now can change the past. What you can do though is get the hurt, the pain and the trauma out of you. You can get it out and off your shoulders, no more secrets, which in turn leaves you nothing more to have nightmares about.

    Now don't me wrong, when you go into heavy trauma therapy, you will have nightmares, you will have a very hard time, but at the end of it all, life truly does get better, with nothing more to fear, nothing more to have nightmares, nothing more to suppress. You can then be honest with yourself about your past, what has happened too you, and that it isn't your fault. I don't believe you ever need to forgive someone who poses trauma upon you, quite the opposite, in that they should be punished by law for their crimes, especially when childhood abuse, rape and general crimes against humanity are committed. You don't have to forgive them, but you can accept that it has occured, is now part of your life, is all out of you and they can no longer hurt you from their actions.

    Your starting to hurt already Nam, and if you want to start getting things out more privately, then use the private message system to me Nam, and I will push you start remembering each event, one at a time, the same that I have been through, the same that many others who are past PTSD as a disability, and now only have mild effects from past life issues, and can move onto a more healthy lifestyle, enjoy their family and embrace life as it should be.
     
  12. Nam

    Nam I'm a VIP

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    Thanks, anthony.
     
  13. carpediem2006

    carpediem2006 Active Member

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    HI ALL

    I haven't read every word of all of the posts, but have my own take from the beginning of the thread which may or may not be useful.

    In the beginning there is a need to talk about what has never been discussed, while in 'a state' emotionally, at first the same things are repeated and gone over in a kind of frenetic way. Those thoughts and reactions to them are present most of the time with other emotions.

    I now do not want to keep talking about what happened, it has happened and cannot be changed. What is more important is looking at what is left from what happened, for example nightmares or reliving something for no apparent reason.

    In many situations I think the person that is responsible is 'psychologically disturbed' in one way or another (excluding war situations where it is one enemy against the other).

    Nothing can change what has been done. Talking about things from beginning to end over many different times forces the experience to be relived to a degree.

    Once this has been done, I am not sure of the value of continuing to do so again and again. I am trying to look at what the effects are now. When I post on here, there is a strong temptation to write and rewrite what I have already told others. I do not see this as necessarily helping me personally as the emotions do come back with the rewriting of the experience to a degree althought this is now also much better.

    I am working with someone looking more closely at where I am now, considering how to move on and put those things behind me. I am advised not to press charges for example as that would force the experience to be relived, however part of me feels that justice should be done, that I will get through that and feel better for doing so. It is a bridge I will have to cross soon and one I will have to decide for myself. I do not want it to be vengeful, but think it would help close a door for me more, rather than thinking people can get away with things with impunity. It should be for the law to decide and that should be processed.

    I am not sure for you NAM whether you should be rereading your old logs, as it feels like opening old wounds. In your case I understand this is of a sexual nature. It is better for me to acknowledge where/when I feel I cannot feel safe for example. I work on that. I do not want to delve into any aspect of your personal life, but working to resolve trust issues is fundamental for me, and likewise in terms of any relationship whether that be simply on a friendly basis or a more developed sexual relationship of any kind. Those barriers first need to be found, and we have to break down the lack of trust by beginning to trust again. I find this helps by explaining to those closest to me first how and why this has occurred and then forcing myself to trust people, even if in the meantime my fingers may be burned to one degree or another in the process. I think any solution cannot work for everyone, but you will need to find what works best for you. Does it feel better to have gone through and reread things, or does it make it worse. I find it better sometimes to rewrite it in a condensed format (one or two sentences per event, simply to accept and acknowledge what brought me to where I was, how it impedes where I want to go, and try to focus on where I want to move on to). For me focusing on the past is allowing those people to destroy my day today and my future tomorrow. How do I feel today, right now; that is important. If it's good great! If it's not find out why, I do believe things can be improved. That is what I strive to do for me right now. Although with varying degrees of success!
     
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