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Fear of self control & all control

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Abstract

MyPTSD Pro
This is something I have been aware of for many years now. I am a very disciplined person with previous workaholic tendencies (before everything went splat) but have simultaneously always had problems dealing with myself. I realised in earlier years the way I activated myself was through threats, humiliation, psychological and physical punishment and the like. When I started getting somewhere with these behaviours and my severely dysfunctional inner parent then I was met with paralyses.

Clinical depression didn't help of course. Only realising now that it has improved so much how severe my depression symptoms were between the episodes I saw as major depression.

I eventually started speaking to myself aloud like a small child in a reassuring way to get any movement whatsoever - as totally nauseating and self hating as that made me.

Years on and I am able to generally be a little more active but am again going through a new phase of realising how entrenched some of this and how there are more and more layers that need to be dealt with. As soon as I try to actively organise and direct myself there is intense fear and then shutdown. The fear isn't about perfection is more primal than that. And I have done absolutely everything humanly possible to avoid anyone else controlling me in any way. :wideeyed: Thought I was on top of this but now I have no idea how I managed to fool myself that I was.
 
Control can mean a lot of different things to different people. It could be about fixed daily routines to one person, about literal physical control of arms and legs to another, it could be about things like independence and control of finances and grocery shopping... How does the issue of control play out for you with this?
 
I'm back. Not sure will make any more sense to others but at least with more internal clarity.

Realised something had set me off and I was dealing with the backlash. Very hypervigilant about figuring out who people are and their motivations as a way of staying safer. Try not to be as obsessed these days but it is automatic. Don't do well when I think I know what someone is about, am starting to trust them a bit, and then I see a totally different side to them. Realise that haven't seen their intentions. Freaks me out and makes me doubt myself and others. Get paranoid. Especially when a certain expression occurs. That one look on the face of "G" got to me and sent me spiralling. Also never want to be in a position where others actions potentially control my wellbeing or freedom. Realised have ended up in that situation with G. Not happy.

Reasons don't like it:
Obvious ones about people not being who they say they are whilst growing up and sometimes taking a long to figure out/understand the truth
Long history of dissociating truth/events/actions and having trouble knowing what was happening in present - don't trust self to understand reality
History of shutting down when people show they are not trustworthy and therefore not being able to protect self.

What I was experiencing was shutdown. When I get like that I can't do anything. Can't seem to make myself do anything. The actual process of forcing myself sets off fear and then that shuts me down more. In the past I tried all sorts to deal with that state and eventually prised apart what was happening. It is that childhood claustrophobic state where doing anything exposes one to backlash. Total control over my actions mind feelings. Being told what my motivations, emotions, likes, actions are. Even when that usually doesn't match reality. That is the emotional state I go into when I feel as if I am in a position where someone else has potential control over my wellbeing. And in response to me trying to control my own behaviour.

Realised I have fallen into all sorts of bad habits in the last year as have been frantically trying to be functional in the world (had no choice). The things I have learned and the self care have fallen by the wayside to an extent. Regressed.

Not going into past internal battles as that is a whole book of its own.

Funny as wrote the thread and then though "control?" when replies mentioned control. :alien::bag:

@She Cat Sorry! I don't know. I hate controlling others and I hate any hint of others controlling me. I am also hypervigilant about getting into situations where others have control over me or my life. But when you asked realise I do have issues with it in other ways too. On the day posted was going around the forum discussing some of them without realising it. Like loosing my temper. Fear that too. So your question made me realise I probably have some sort of issue with control in general which I hadn't realised before.

@Ragdoll Circus Good question. When I posted I was thinking of it in quite a lot of contexts. Getting myself to do or not do things. Others having power over my financial independence/survival. Others trying to control my behaviour. Others trying to control who I am. I had issues with my body too in past but those are dealt with. Its fundamentally about a feeling of survival. That's the best I can do at describing it.
 
There’s a whole lot of stuff in there and it’s kind of hard to tease it apart - sounds like seperating out the issues here is a bit of a work in progress?

You still seem to have the word ‘control’ as a central feature. Sometimes individual words can almost become too overloaded with emotional baggage that the word starts getting in the way of itself, you know?

Like, you’ve used the word control, but to me, it sounds like a lot of this is about trust. There’s the issues about trusting other people who have seemingly fluid motives and behaviours (and yeah, they do change and it can be confusing as hell!). That’s a big deal - how do you trust people? Because people as a mob might be simple, but individuals? They’re complex, dynamic, contradictory, constantly growing (and therefore constantly changing).

But all that is background noise while we work on our relationship with ourself. You have control over you, and that’s just as well since you’re responsible for your actions, you’re accountable. But we have to be able to trust ourselves with the way we exercise that control. Trust in ourself is essential, yeah?

It’s not true that we must always control our own behaviour. But when we let things be completely random we tend to make a bit of a mess. More important though, when I exercise conscious control over me? I have to take credit for my successes and that’s intimidating.

What happens for you if you let go of control of yourself? Does it get better, or messier? Is there a middle ground, between complete control and complete mayhem?

I don’t know, maybe that’s all way off where your head is at. But to me it sounds like this is as much about trust as control, including trusting yourself.
 
I agree with @Ragdoll Circus, but would also like to add... When we have been abused, control and trust go hand in hand. We feel that we have to control in order to protect ourselves, and so how can we trust someone so that we don’t need the control. It’s a fine line, and I know the feeling very well.

I still need control in my life, but not to the extent that I did. I’ve learned to let go of it for the most part.... How I did this....... Believe it or not, my job!!! Yeah, I clean houses for a living, but it was the people that I work for that have taught me so so much. Being surrounded myself with people that are caring, helpful, non violent, healthy has taught me to let down my guard. I have regained my faith in people and also learned how to pinpoint those that are not so healthy.

@Abstract I hope that you can find someone that is healthy, someone that can show you that not all people are evil. Someone that can nurture you, by doing nothing more than being healthy and kind. It’s not so much that healthy people have to do things for you, it’s just that being themselves, is showing and guiding you into being a more trusting soul, and thus letting your guard down a bit.
 
I can relate to the being frozen
It took my t to point out that I have a passive aggressive conflict going on between my abusive parent ego state and my child ego state.

My parent (critic) ego state is a bit like yours, using belittling abuse to try to get me to do stuff, that's never going to be good enough

And there's no point in me even starting something, because I'll get the grief anyway, whatever is doing.

I don't know the answer.

With respect to conflicting messages, and double bind situations, I got a couple of papers that were useful and interest

The first is a review paper:
The double bind, still crazy making after fifty years

You'll get a refund for the "towards a theory of schizophrenia" In the review.

By the way, I'm absolutely not suggesting that either of us has schizophrenia!

Did you ever watch Borat?
At the end, when he's back home in his village, afierce his year of travelling. It's "chase the jew day" again. And Borat proudly announces that they're all so much more modern, because now they're all christians ...

They still torment a Jewish guy, but now they tie him to a cross to do it.
I'm reminded of that whenever anyone is going on aboutique the current chemical theories of the difficulties we experience in our lives. I think that the double bind, and Berne's psychological games theory are much more useful explanations.

@
 
@Ragdoll Circus ,
Yes people change and show different faces. :yuck: And I think mobs do it too. Have to try to be aware of what is happening around me so can react in a way that is appropriate. Have a history of not and then ending up in sticky situations. Blank reality out and shut down. Made decisions based on this person M seeming to be moderately trustworthy and now am vulnerable. Absolutely hate being in that situation.

Oh goodness! Separating the issues out is almost always a process for me! When I get like this I go into off mode and that doesn't help me find clarity. Autobiographical memory has also been a wobbly thing for me in the past and that doesn't help.

When I posted I needed to do some critical tasks for work and every time I went to do them I shut down. If I didn't do them I was putting my autonomy and livelihood in jeopardy as there are some major political things happening there. I get this suffocated trapped feeling when was trying to make myself take the next step. When setting limits for myself and trying to make myself do something I get the paralysed fear response. Brings on feelings from childhood of not being allowed to be a human being with autonomy. Where every possible action would be wrong. After reading the responses realised I was feeling v threatened at work and that was upping my reactions.

You are absolutely correct that trust is by far the biggest issue I struggle with. Of self (being able to protect self) and of others. That is one of the reasons I always try to protect my autonomy. Not give people power over me. With this it happens to be financial and work related. I am self employed in my 1 man business. It's hard to describe how important the business is for me. To feel safer and helps me be able to contain symptoms.

I would say I am on the whole a self controlled person. But I suffer with procrastination and getting tasks done. And the core isn't perfectionism. What I need to be able to do is be effective when this happens but in a way that isn't self punishing and abusive. Letting go of control of self has been much healthier but still have to figure out how to overcome these situations and that internal fear.
Thanks so much.
 
@She Cat
That is so wonderful your job helped you meet good kind people and heal those wounds! And it is your livelihood too. I'm so glad for you. I have people contact in my professional life and one aspect of that has been very helpful to me. The other is a constant source of difficulty and stress. I can't decide if I am just unlucky, if most people are in truth like this when given the opportunity, or if I am doing something to attract a certain type. Maybe all 3 to an extent. I am tired of it . There is something about authority figures who are unhealthy that gets right into my bones and makes me very symptomatic. Really does make me want that desert island again. Coconuts are a much safer bet methinks.

You are absolutely right that control when from a past of harm is complicated. I grew up being controlled and not being allowed to be myself, and being surrounded by rage and that type of lack of control. I both never want to have anyone be on the receiving end of it from me and I don't want to be on the receiving end either. And yet I treat myself unkindly. Being kind to myself and yet setting boundaries is a very hard thing to attain.

Thank you so much for your kind words. I really appreciate them and was touched.
 
Hi @Anarchy

Thank you so much! Yes, double bind is the mo of both parents. And mixed messages about reality too. Random example: I was supposedly fat when in fact was underweight. It was good to read those and be reminded of them. Thanks for posting. Its a long time since I did so. I was a child that tried to be good so that is tricky when you are always trying to figure out what that would look like. Fail succeed disappear be seen. Its funny how long it took me to realise there was no solution. I was in my 30's. The payoff for them is the game itself.

I relate a lot to the inner conflict. I try very hard these days to avoid self abuse in any form. If I can find it in me to approach myself with kindness and patience and in the way one would ideally approach a small scared child it often helps but it is the most counter-intuitive thing in the world for me.

I really need to sever the setting of healthy boundaries for myself from the past and these emotional backlashes. This need to feel free and hypervigalantly trying to avoid threat at all cost.

I'm sorry you relate.
 
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I relate massively to these difficulties with trust of self as well as others and too have an extroadinarily frustrating time trying to get myself to do stuff. Dont have any useful suggestions, only that I too have noticed being self compassionate is the only way to go.
It's been helpful for me to read everything here. Hope you find answers for yourself :-)
 
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