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Frustrated With A Fellow Ptsd Sufferer/friend

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Justmehere

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This thread is to vent, process... and also ask for any help in figuring out what to do about a friendship with another PTSD sufferer. (note: this friend is not any member that I know of on this site)

I have a friend who I have known for a number of years. We used to have a two way relationship. Over the past year, it has become very one sided. There was one time over a year ago, where I reached out to her in a bad moment and she said she had too much on her plate to be there for me. I'm glad she told me. Sure it stung, but it helped to know she couldn't be there for me at the time. I reached out to others instead. For a little while, our relationship was still two ways, and she would end up in crisis from time to time, and reach out to me for support or encouragement or a listening ear. Even though she couldn't be there for me, I didn't mind being there for her. She was always thankful, never took me for granted.

Now, if I text or call her about that lighter stuff, she has no response to that. I will though eventually get a text or a call from her in a very anxious state begging for me to call or text her back. I never felt that I HAD to respond right away, and my life and PTSD symptoms make it too hard to be on text 24/7. Sometimes, I responded days later... I felt like I could keep boundaries.

I knew it was one sided, but I thought it would shift back to being 2 sided again soon. I was wrong.

Within the last month, since her last breakup, her texts and one way communications to me have escalated. She is chronically suicidal to the point that I had to call a crisis service to check on her last week. She is resistant to connecting to her therapist or getting more professional or even unprofessional support. She has expressed she wants understanding, listening, and to not be alone.

These are all good things to want.

I want to be there for her, but I don't think I can do this anymore and I feel like the worst friend. I don't want to lose her as a friend, but this has stopped feeling like a friendship. I feel like a dumping ground. Am I? I wake up in the morning almost daily with texts like "can you call me right now? I am having so much panic. I can't take the pain anymore. I can't so this life anymore." from the middle of the night. I am someone who has been there for friends at 3am, when it's a "I'm in the hospital and really scared" kind of thing every now and then. I'm the person who will go to the hospital at 3am and hang out with a scared friend so they don't have to be alone, and I don't mind at all...

But I'm several thousand miles away and I can't be her 3am crisis text or phone support. I can't. I have never been this for her because it's a distant relationship and it's harder for me to do that because of my own attachment issues.

I don't think this pattern for her is new, as she describes that she used to reach out to her ex in extremely panicky or dissociated states, and he would be there no matter the hour... only to abuse her the next day. She told me she stayed with him because no one else was there for her.

I think that now he is gone, it's not so much that things are drastically worse like I used to think, but that she's reaching out to others, and trying to find anyone else to fulfill what he used to be able to do for her.... that's what she says, and that makes me more concerned this isn't just a bad couple of weeks, but a prolonged pattern that isn't going to change in the near future.

It doesn't feel manipulative. She is never like "call me or I am going to call myself..."

I have suggested this site, crisis text services, etc as other options for support... all poo-pooed as "too much to handle." If it's not her thing, that's fine, but I can't do it and I don't know how to tell her.

And I can't do this with her. I could for a short season, but not every day, not every night.

I have tried telling her the times I can talk, and made it clear I can't talk after 11pm... I have my own sleep/PTSD issues at night and I can't do it. I'm useless at 3am. But it continues. The boundary pushing seems more dissociated than willful. Like I don't know if she even remembers at all. By the time I get the text in the morning, and I take the time to respond, she is at work or in class... and she will take 2-3 days to get back to me... unless it's the next round of severe symptoms at 3am that she is texting me about the next night. I don't know if she even remembers the 3am texts or the boundaries that I have set. A year ago, she wasn't as dissociated.

I have been there, in a desperate and suicidal place... I have so been there. I have had everyone safe (and abusive) give up on me. I don't want to abandon our relationship. I have sent a few texts in a dissociated state that I don't remember. I was really glad when the person didn't leave when they asked me about it the next day. I have shut people out.

But this time, I'm the supporter... but I am also a sufferer.

I am also downright mad at her. She is able to do a lot more in her life in work and school than I can do. I am honestly jealous. I know, it makes me an awful person but I am jealous. Things like how she has a family, one that didn't abuse her, and I don't have any family because they were abusive... I am falling into the very dangerous trap of comparing symptoms and comparing lives. I'm being unfair.

I got another set of 3am texts when I woke up this morning and I responded when I woke up at 6am to ask how she was doing.... She expressed suicidal thoughts, there has been no response, and I'm about to call for a damn welfare check again. Only I noticed she has been posting on FB so she's alive...

I feel like all I am is an outlet.

If it was even partially a two way relationship, I would feel better.

I think I need to tell her I need some space for awhile... only, how in the world do I do that? I feel like such a jerk, but my own stuff is triggered and I can't do this anymore. She doesn't need another jerk in her life, and that's what I will be if I stay.
 
I feel like all I am is an outlet.
The sad truth of this is ... it sounds like you really are. To me, it sounds like she is codependent and up until recently has always had someone else to use as a crutch. But now you're the only person around she can use in this way, and she is using you -- to the maximum. She may not realize it, but she clearly is just using you to feel better. Honestly, I think you are right to feel like you need to put some space between the two of you. And it's not just for your own sake, but for her's as well, because it sounds like she never developed healthy coping mechanisms for dealing with this stuff on her own. Worse yet, she is refusing to get a therapist or use available resources to actually develop her own coping mechanisms. She can't have it both ways -- using you as a crutch while at the same time refusing to do anything on her own to get better. I think you need to either write her a long letter explaining that you want some space and think it would benefit her; or, if you'd feel comfortable, maybe set up a Skype call with her. Make clear that you aren't trying to discard her but that you see a clear pattern here of codependency, and you don't want to enable her any further. She will probably get upset and maybe lash out at you, but ultimately, it's better for her that you walk away for a while. I had a friend like this for years - she would normally use her boyfriend to deal with things, but every time they'd be fighting or broken up, she'd use me, and it was always one-sided and very dramatic. She never called me for normal chit-cat, it was always to tell me she was depressed or suicidal. I was way too nice to her and thought I was helping by constantly calling her late at night or going to check on her -- until she slit her wrists when I failed to answer the phone. I had just made her problems worse in the end, and prolonged her recovery. Not saying your friend would do this, but it is always a possibility that she could escalate. And you are right that you can't always be there to help her when you're thousands of miles away and have your own problems. Basically, you already know what you need to do, and you see this all pretty clearly yourself already, but I definitely support you in this decision and couldn't agree more. It will be unpleasant and you will probably feel bad about it, but she needs some tough love.
 
Honestly, I relate to all of this so much since this is exactly what has happened with my sufferer as well. You seem to already know what to do - put some distance in between one another because a friendship should not be her constantly using you as a crutch. My best friend had done that for a long, long time, and I never knew it was wrong until I came to this forum. If I wasn't skype calling her, she was upset and couldn't be calmed. If I was out of the house and hanging out with people, she would text me very suicidal responses. If I didn't feel like roleplaying (we're creative writers; sometimes we act out how our characters interact), she would dissassociate. It became a vicious cycle where, if she was 'suicidal enough', she could get my attention. (of course if she's suicidal I'm going to pay attention. She's my best friend since childhood. I don't want to lose her). I realized over time that constantly responding to her when she was like this would not help her at all; responding to her when she was like this essentially conditionned her to constantly come to me and eventually, she'd get what she wanted. She never used any therapy techniques or trusted anyone else, she refused to ground herself flat out, and it became very, very bad for the both of us. You seem to recognized that this pattern is very, very bad for her, and especially bad for you as well, since you have PTSD yourself.

I agree with Casey when they say that you should probably send her a message - that you also have PTSD and that she can't be dumping her emotions on you all the time, it's overwhelming and detrimental to both of you. You love her, but you can't help her if you, yourself, aren't okay. And of course, she will get upset, it is unlikely she won't. But stand firm. Tell her that you want to assume your space, but that you still care. She may keep sending you texts at 3 am like always. The worst part is not responding to her when she behaves like this. It's awful because you feel awful for not responding. But you have to assert your boundaries. You're not an outlet. If she can't talk to you about anything else other than her problems, then that needs to stop. It sounds dumb, but it's basically 'reteaching' her that no, texting you about suicidal ideations and symptoms all the time, and nothing else, is not going to get your attention. It sucks, but it's so, so important that you assert boundaries with what you're okay and not okay with.
 
What Id do, make the boundry clear one last time and advise that you will not partisipate in a onesided friendship, that you have PTSD and issues too and she isnt there for you.

Make it crystal clear that 1) you arent a crisis center, you will be there before 11pm to listen if she needs an ear but 1a) she needs to be willing to listen to you to and 1b) if she is on the edge you will not respond and instead will call 911. 2) you will no longer be willing to be one sided, if she doesnt care enough to listen to you when you have issues then she's not a friend, she's a user. 3) if she expects you to "text me right now" then you need a response less then 2 to 3 days later.

I think you need to remember that you arent abandoning her, you have given her way more chances than you should to respect the boundries and now its one sided, she's now just using you and thats not a friend.

And she has family, she has other support. Its not like she cant text someone else at 3am, she is choosing not to.

And you are not a bad person for feeling jealous of someone having family. I feel that way all of the time and that includes when people talk about family on here. I think to myself "i wish i had a husband to lean on, i wish i could have kids or the financial abilty to adopt, i wish i had family that cared"...its normal. :hug:

ETA:

i didnt finish my thought. I would give her just that one and only one chance and if she doesnt seem to respect it, use the term that I so love that someone said on here "Its just not working out for me"!
 
I'm going start by saying that you sound like a great friend and I'm impressed with the amount of thought you're putting into this. And I think I've kind of been there and done versions of that, but probably not very well. Thinking about it now, seems like maybe I grew up thinking I only had any value if I could "be there" for someone, in some way, shape, or form. But, I don't know that I exactly have an answer for "What to do?". This actually sounds like something the moderators here might have insight into, because it sounds like something that sort of happens here sometimes.

The goals would be to make things ok for both of you, right? Since she IS, sort of at least, a friend? And you're a kind, compassionate person who pretty much wants EVERYONE to be ok anyway. And, you seem pretty sure that what you're dealing with is "symptoms" rather than just a self involved person who's a PITA. Is that right? Then maybe some kind of version of the "temporary ban" that they do here when a person is spinning kind of out of control? For their own good and everyone else's? It sounds like a similar situation.

What you said about her being slow to respond if the dust has settled before you get back to her is kind of interesting. Could it be that what ever she's experiencing, in the moment, she experiences as being intolerably horrible and then once the moment passes it's no longer on her radar screen? That could be dissociation. Could be it's something else too, maybe.

Just know that you aren't the bad guy here, ok?
 
You sound like you've done everything a friend could reasonably be expected to - PTSD diagnosis or not. For me, I keep remembering that I can only help other people if I myself am healthy. That means I need to get enough sleep and relaxation, I need support from loved ones and friends, I need to be able to switch off completely and deal with my own stuff. If I'm feeling symptomatic I need to take care of me even more and sometimes that means withdrawing from certain relationships for a while, or permanently.

Think of it like putting your own air mask on first, then attending to other people. You've told her what you need and where your limits are (which I think is fantastic btw, so difficult to do!) I wonder if you now need to let her get on with it?

What I mean by that is, if you've said you aren't available after 11.00pm can you put your phone away from you or on silent or airplane mode so you don't get messages from her? If you can't be a crisis line, don't be one - I'd stop asking for welfare checks because that tells her you are looking out for her, let her know you're not going to do that anymore and that however hard it is, she needs to develop local supports.

Basically, decide what if anything you want to offer her, tell her and stop doing anything more than that. In terms of your own stuff, that's harder but maybe an honest conversation about the times you've needed her and she hasn't been there? Not to be blaming but just to emphasise how much you miss what she brought to your friendship?
 
Yes you can't do the impossible @Justmehere , it's still up to her to deal with her own stuff, & friendships are two-way, even if they're one-way now, the other way later. They're also based on mutual pro-active problem solving, as well as support. I too don't understand why she does not get back to you? Or understand, when you've said it's too much. :(

Not sure what to say but hugs to you. :hug:
 
You've warned her, repeatedly, that she's getting really close to the line of where you can't handle her... And she's chosen to ignore that. In multiple times and ways.

Is she going to be mad at you? Lumping you in with others? Probably. ((If not, then her estimation of others is probably something you can trust. If so? Then it really makes one wonder about how she sees the others in her life. Aka victim-mentality, when many if the "jerks" in her life are / were probably great people she's crossed the line with far far too many times and they had to cut her off.))

But that's not your lookout. You are not responsible for how she sees you.

You're responsible for your own self. And that self needs some TLC and to stop being kicked in the boundary-balls by being used as a crisis line 24/7. That's not your job. You are/were a friend. Not a therapist, crisis clinic worker, or toilet to be shat upon.
 
Thanks for the really great feedback!

I was kind of angry this morning, and it was almost slipping out sideways - which would have pushed someone else away... Sigh. But posting here and admitting to myself that I'm mad at her has helped a lot.
@Casey_03 - All I am is a crutch. I need to let her limp without me, or maybe even fall... or maybe even find another crutch. A Skype call or a long letter are really good ideas. I might be favoring the long letter, but the Skype call would be ideal if I can get myself to do it, and she is willing to as well. I want her so much to know that I am not trying to abandon her, and something has to change here. I have to change something. Thanks for sharing about your friend, I think it is helping me to see my own situation more for what it is. We used to talk all the time for normal chit chat... now we only talk when she's emotionally falling apart.

@RecedingMoonlight - She might keep calling at 3am. I have already considered that I may need to temporarily block her number. :( Thanks for the other feedback too - I think you are right and it's really helpful to read.

@lostforgottensoul- I like the list you have - it's well said, thank you.
Thank you for this good reminder that I am not abandoning her. I feel like I am abandoning her - - and she has abandoned a friendship with me. It hurts to not even be heard. Again and again. It's like I'm talking to a wall. It feels like aspects of my childhood.... And you are right, she does have other supports... I kind of think she texts me because no one else is there for her... but then I also think... no, there really are other options like crisis text services...
And you are not a bad person for feeling jealous of someone having family. I feel that way all of the time and that includes when people talk about family on here. I think to myself "i wish i had a husband to lean on, i wish i could have kids or the financial abilty to adopt, i wish i had family that cared"...its normal. :hug:
:hug: Thanks for validating this.
"Its just not working out for me"!
This is good! And it's so accurate. Really, I can't be in the place of deciding what is and isn't healthy/working for her... but I know that this isn't working for me.
Thinking about it now, seems like maybe I grew up thinking I only had any value if I could "be there" for someone, in some way, shape, or form.
Ya know, now that I think about it more, I grew up with the message that I have value as an outlet.... my father's rage, my uncle's stress, my mother's worry... I had value and I could stay in relationship as long as I took others people stuff in. As long as they could dump it on me, we were ok. And I did that as a kid. I think I have done it here too.

I was actually thinking about how the moderators hold boundaries here. I was a moderator of a different kind of forum where people sometimes got suicidal, and somehow, I was able to hold the boundaries there - not silence the reaching out for help during suicidal/crisis moments, but also not feel overly drawn in myself. I'm struggling at that same skill right now. I don't want her to feel reluctant to ask for help, but in order for that to be effective, she needs to know that I can't be it.
And, you seem pretty sure that what you're dealing with is "symptoms" rather than just a self involved person who's a PITA. Is that right? Then maybe some kind of version of the "temporary ban" that they do here when a person is spinning kind of out of control? For their own good and everyone else's? It sounds like a similar situation.
We have a long history and we have had some great times together. It really strikes me as something she is doing out of desperation, and lack of knowing or trusting any other options, rather than with intent to just use me as only an outlet...

I want a reset. A time to pause, let her reach out to other support, and then try again, differently. With a better understanding that the boundaries will be something I keep. Good suggestion.

I do think the panic and text of the moment does fall off her radar, and that it might be that she is simply desperately trying to survive the pain she is in, and as soon as she can, she moves on to the next thing... like for her, I don't get the sense that she is ever waiting on my little responses...
Just know that you aren't the bad guy here, ok?
Thanks. This helps to read. I hope I am not the bad guy. :)
What I mean by that is, if you've said you aren't available after 11.00pm can you put your phone away from you or on silent or airplane mode so you don't get messages from her? If you can't be a crisis line, don't be one - I'd stop asking for welfare checks because that tells her you are looking out for her, let her know you're not going to do that anymore and that however hard it is, she needs to develop local supports.
I have been able to set my phone to "do not disturb setting" at night so that only if someone calls 10 times will my phone ring - and that hasn't happened yet. Thankfully, the texts and calls are not waking me up. But, the welfare check thing made me pause when I was about to do it a second time in less than a week without her trying to get more help herself. Suicidality tends to stick around for awhile, and I have a roommate who attempted and then was later successful - but this is beginning to feel different than how it was for him. No matter what, I can't do this. I can't be someone who is calling for a welfare check every few days. It's simply not something I can do for her. Plus, she has a therapist. She needs to be reaching out to him with this stuff in addition with other people who can be really there for her... not just her distant friend thousands of miles away.

It is easy to give myself permission to make it clear to her that this is when I can talk and not talk... Less easy to tell her that I've missed her and missed having a two way friendship, where I feel like I matter to her, where she was there for me too. Thanks for that really good suggestion though, because I think it might help her hear where I'm really coming from.

She has expressed that she feels bad that she can't be there for her family and others, so I know she thinks about this stuff. It feels so hard for me to say, hey, I wanted this, and you were not there for me, and I missed you.

Right now, I am at a place in my own life where my therapist says I'm learning to say yes, and say it more deeply to closeness and intimacy. I'm at a place where I am also unsure about my friendships, and wanting something different than maybe I have been ok with in the past. I keep second guessing myself with everyone. Being able to process this relationship with you all here, and how to set some boundaries, say a gentle "no" (of sorts) - this is helping me stay on track with figuring out how to say yes too, and to risk the vulnerable thing. I think this is actually one of those situations where I can say what hurts - that I miss her and yet also say, and I can't do this with you this way. I need things to chance in order to say yes to this relationship.

Thanks all for helping me think this through instead of have a knee jerk "STOP AND GO AWAY" reaction. I have done that so many times... I want to handle this better this time.
 
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I am a wordy wordy rambly mess this morning. I'm sorry about that.

@FridayJones - well said. Thanks for the feedback. I think how we both handle this will help both of us to get to know what we can and can't trust in each other. I am beginning to wonder if she is stuck in victim-mentality... and I will admit, I don't deal with "learned heplessness" type of behavior well.

I feel like I have to draw this line, somewhere, in order to be a responsible friend to her... if she blames me and stays stuck there, well, it was bound to fall apart anyhow.
But that's not your lookout. You are not responsible for how she sees you.
Good point.
 
I finally texted her. I have already asked (twice) when would be a good time to talk on the phone or Skype, and there has been no response to this request for the past few days. I know, text is the worst format for this... but I have to communicate something and right now, it's all I've got. I started off by asking if she remembered texting me about feeling suicidal and upset or if she forgot? I asked if there was another reason why she typically doesn't respond until she is back in that place again.

She actually replied, rather quickly. This surprised me. She explained that yes she remembers, and she has just been so busy with school, didn't have time to think about it, and didn't think it mattered. My brain took that in as "you don't matter." That's not what she is saying, but it is how it feels. Am I being selfish? Probably.

I responded back, "I feel like our relationship has become very one way. I am really ok with friends reaching out to me - - but in the context of a two way relationship. I feel like I am not your friend anymore, but just an outlet. I want to be there for you and something has to change. When you send very dire texts to me of very real pain you are in, and you don't respond to "how are things going?" for days, I feel very concerned. I am also noticing that you only contact me only when you are in dire need. Not really at any other time. When I reach out to you with ordinary things, you don't respond. This isn't working for me."

As I was typing what needs to change in my second text... she texted me to say she was having a severe panic attack over my first text, had to walk out of her class, and is asking for a Skype call tomorrow and says she "can't even read or process" what I have texted her. I got 8 texts from her at 3 am last night that were really long, and I send long text (above) text after days of ignoring my request to talk on the phone... and she can't even read it?

If she can't she can't. I have to accept that she can't do what I need to stay in a relationship with her.

I didn't send the second text I was typing about what needs to change. I told her "I don't actually know how to respond right now, but I'll get back to you later today." Because this feels really off, all of it feels really off kilter.

This doesn't seem like this should be so hard... I stink at relationships. All of them. I really value her and I have missed her as a FRIEND. Not whatever this is now. :(
 
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she texted me to say she was having a severe panic attack over my first text, had to walk out of her class,
Wow..... Pack your bags! We're going on a guilt trip!

I hate passive aggressive bullshit. :wtf:

Does she pull this kind of stunt on you often? Not that it really matters. Once is too much. It's like, baaaaaack that shit up. Now. Try again, without the manipulative BS, or bite me.
 
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