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Gaslighting: Protecting Yourself

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Just add this one to my ongoing list of why people cannot be trusted. I think I'll just stick with dogs. At least you know where you stand with a dog.

Not everyone does this though.

Some people do this, but most people do not do this.

Most everyone is capable of being emotionally abusive at times. I recognize so much of my own behavior in sea's posts...and I wasn't even raped as a child or not given food regularly. Most people don't intentionally want to hurt anyone...some do though.

I'm not saying that people aren't f*ckheads, because they most definitely are in many different ways at many different times...but chalking it up on your list of why not to trust all people because of the sick actions of a few isn't rational.

I'm not meaning to sound offensive here, I just think it's worth mentioning, to remind ourselves that not everyone is like those wierdo's
 
This inspires me for my journey into therapy that will soon be taking place. I want to know what goals I want and what I want to get out of therapy, besides feeling better for talking.

I want to improve in the area of expressing myself without feeling guilty, as this last scenario has shown me that I am still falling into feeling guilty for expressing my anger to my parents...even though they are unashamedly messing with my head, for their benefit.
 
Here's the conundrum from my experience for which the 'answer' eludes me. Even when standing in 'your truth' with a situation, your (non-ptsd) perspective is twisted back as gaslighting them!

Given as example: Trying to point out to her that she is living in an ongoing battle zone of sorts, one that is causing so much pain and suffering to all the others in her life for whom she is emotionally unavailable because of her having to constantly deal with us through a fog of expected perfection because 'she's already dealing with so much with her abusive mother', and trying to point out that her perspective (being one of 'I can handle it. I'm used to it') may be skewed because of the attachment leading her to defend her perpetrator and not fully understand how badly it has affected her, and is still. Pleaing for her sanity, happiness, and the urgent importance I see in her getting out from under it, in order to be able to deal with the 'happy' part of her life with us, as opposed to being always busy being her nagging, verbally abusive, controlling mother's gopher and whipping post - it is turned back on me, as I expound on the theories of the compounding problems linking to her lifetime of 'not seeing it clearly' because it's something she has lived with all her life, puts a different 'lens' on everything - and that she needs to get out from under it.

It turned out to be a several days, ongoing, enlightenment for me, seeing so much we had been dealing with all pointing back to her abuse from her mom and her steadfast stance in keeping herself in the position of sacrificing her life for her mother, just like her mother wants it.

I am paying still, to this day, for my encouragement and attempt to enlighten her to her stance and the harm she is doing to herself and her other circles of life by staying there, under her mother's constance stress, demands, and degrading abuse -- to now have it be a point of reference for her to show me how "controlling" I am, how I'm "same as Mom" - just that I go about it "nicely", but that it is "abusive" on my part, just trying to get her "where I want her" so I can "be happy, whether [she] is or not", and that I will "never understand" because I "need help". I do need help - she is right about that - because the circle of (non)communication is "crazy-making"!

Any advice? How to deal with anything that would possibly be effective for change or help, when it is all twisted to such an extent that her friends, who hear of my - what's now called "abuse" of her - all from her perspective only, are encouraging her to get away from me - and even I myself keep questioning, rethinking my own ways, and intent, even when I know I have nothing but love and good intentions. How to ever break the cycle? Give up? No answer? Do we (non-ptsds) just leave them (c-ptsds) in the "bed" they're making for themselves......although your "bed" will never be the same without them?

It's so frustratingly sad and helpless-feeling knowing they are such a wonderful person who is just throwing away, out of their own skewed mind-set, such an authentic chance for 'real life and happiness'! She would, no doubt, say I am the gaslighter, and she the gaslightee, and be very effective in making it seem so.... (even writing this, I continue to test my motives for integrity... yet I know they are clean...."yet, are they?...yes, they are...well, think about it...no, stop questioning yourself..." etc. Makes me feel crazy.)
 
HoldingHome,

While we may see other's pain and wish to help them, we are powerless to force another to see their lives as we do.

They are entitled to live in the way they choose to. We are also allowed to decide what our boundaries are. When we continually try to force another person to do what we think is 'right' for them, even if we're correct, it is a violation of their boundaries and right to self-determination. Even when our intentions are good.

This is called co-dependence, and it is very harmful to us in the long run. As a big co-dependent, I spent countless years of my life trying to make others live the way I thought they should, instead of spending that time living my life in a healthy, well-balanced way.

It sucks to watch another's self-destruction, but we didn't cause it. We can't control it. We cannot cure it. But if we don't have good boundaries for ourselves, we can be harmed by it.

Yes, we allow them to live their lives as they wish. If they don't want us in their lives, we allow them to walk away, painful as it is. ..and if it's meant to be, they'll return. But any time I am manipulating another into maintaining a relationship with me when they don't wish to....I'm not being loving, I'm being co-dependent.

If she doesn't see it, it may be she's just not yet strong enough to face reality and get help. My sisters went through that. But I did say what I thought, and then, allowed them to do what they wanted to with the info. It was awful to watch, but I wasn't dragged under with them, thanks to Al-anon and counseling to help me detatch with love.
 
Yes, we allow them to live their lives as they wish. If they don't want us in their lives, we allow them to walk away, painful as it is. ..and if it's meant to be, they'll return. But any time I am manipulating another into maintaining a relationship with me when they don't wish to....I'm not being loving, I'm being co-dependent.

I wish my father got this. He's so controlling, and thinks that he has the right to make everyone around him adhere to his needs and wants without even asking them what they want and need. He isn't interested.

If he really loved me unconditionally, he would let me go and not try and force a relationship with him, when I've made it clear I don't want one, when he broke my trust. Relationships cannot happen without trust as a foundation, and once that is gone, it needs to be earned and rebuilt. He doesn't want to do that, or doesn't even realize he needs to.

Is that just clueless or so caught up in ones own insanity and co-dependance as to be blind to the reality of how humans operate?
 
In your case, Phillipa, I think our fathers aren't being co-dependent...but maybe they're being narsissistic. They get infuriated we won't hold up their fake world like everyone else.

They want us to feed their delusional idea that they are a wonderful person and we're just getting in their way of maintaining that false front to the world.

Now, our family members who manipulate us to benefit the narcissist are being co-dependent...to our dad. That's the real harm of co-dependency, in my opinion. People in it have no idea all the people they are harming trying to 'fix' the sick one's environment. Narcissists love their co-dependents twisting everyone else up for them...they just don't want the co-dependent's manipulations aimed their way.
 
That's a really accurate way of describing it Bloominwinter...thanks. You described my mother so well in saying they don't know how much harm they are causing in trying to maintain the status quo within the narcissists world and do their bidding for them.

I feel like something has really shifted since I sent mum that letter basically saying I want honest relationships and they can just go and live a lie for all I care, I don't want any part of it.

I can feel he's really MAD now.
 
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