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Guns in America

Discussion in 'Social' started by Claire, Apr 17, 2007.

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  1. Claire

    Claire Well-Known Member

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    I am little unsure of writing this as I do not want to upset anyone and know this is a sensitive subject for many.

    My question is, why do the American people feel it necessary to carry or have the right to carry guns? It seems so strange in what is supposed to be a sophisticated society that people feel they need to carry a weapon like that. Everytime there is a shooting incident like there has been this week its all over the news here in the UK, how easy it is to get a gun in America and the right to carry one. I just dont get it. Its not the Wild West anymore is it? Why do they feel so threatened? What's the need?
     
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  3. Marilyn_S

    Marilyn_S Well-Known Member

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    Dear Claire,

    I do very much understand your question. It must be very frustrating to hear such things. I will try to explain, at least for my own families, why many Americans have guns. We are a very proud people and believe very much in our constitution. The second ammendment to our constitution states, Direct Quote: "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

    We feel very stongly that it is necessary for the true protection of our nation for Americans to be adequately armed against possible oppressors, however archaic that may seem. In regards to statistics, the media is very much on the side of forbidding this librity. More individuals are murdered without guns than are with guns. And in many instances criminals will have guns, just as they do other illeagal things, whether honest citizens are armed or not. If one of those students had a concealed permit and was legally carying a fire arm, do you think as many people would have died! It is not like in the movies. There was never really a wild west. People in America have always bore arms to protect themselves from criminals and from government oppression, as well as to hunt for sport, fur, and food. What we as Americans need to do rather than do away with liberty is, we need to take care of our social problems within our society. It is the social problems that create criminals, not guns. I hope that helps you to understand. I respect your oppinions and do not expect you to agree with me or my views, but I do hope this helps you to understand a little better.
     
  4. Linda

    Linda Well-Known Member

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    Why to have or carry guns - to protect your life and your honor, and to protect you family and friends. Unrfortunately, not all people are sophisticated enough to understand that they can not attack others or steal from them. For me, if I will be living alone, I will have a gun and do a target practice regularly.
    Maybe in recent VT massacre less people would be killed if someone else tnan the shooter had a gun and knew how to use it.
     
  5. Claire

    Claire Well-Known Member

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    Thank you both for your replies. You've both said something similar though that I cant agree with. Surely if more people had guns then more people would be killed with guns? Yes, you could say less people in the University might have been killed but I dont really want to be that specific to that case. No-one knows what happened there yet. Surely if more people had guns then more people would be killing each other even more readily over stupid things like arguments, parking spaces, petty theft etc. That's what has been happening more in London recently where kids have been killing kids, all unnecessarily. With guns people shoot to kill and therefore there's no chance of going back. Shoot first and then ask questions later? If your house is broken into and the thief steals a cd player does he deserve a bullet? Did he want to kill you? Yes, there are some cases eg hunting etc when you could legitimately hold a firearm but other than that I really cant see it. I still think if they are available easily then the wrong people at the wrong time will be able to get one. They might regret it later but only after lives have been lost.

    I'm obviously no expert on American history although I understand the value of the American constitution to the American people but wasn't that drawn up a very long time ago when it was a more violent and lawless society?

    You are right Marilyn it is very frustrating for me, coming from a country where thankfully there are very few guns and even most of the police are armed with a big stick (truncheon) still!
     
  6. madjon

    madjon Active Member

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    ok i can see both sides of this, will say first im in the uk and do know about things which go bang, in the us it is related partly to history and partly to culture, guns are not seen as bad people are seen as bad, in the uk the view has been taken that all guns are bad and people arent, now if you look at the gun related death figures in america they do look quite bad but they are not as high as the incidence of non gun related crime, in canada a nation next door to america you have as many guns but a lower crime rate and a very much lower rate of gun related crime, two nations next to each other both with a lot of guns, in the us there is a problem with societal injustice and also with societal problems related to violence, there is violence with guns anywhere a criminal can get them, in the uk the ban on hand held firearms revolvers pistols semis etc was supposed to remove the problem of gun crime but it has instead increased quite significantly, now there is a view, and there are different arguments that if the criminals have them no matter what the law says then why cant an honest citizen have one to protect themselves their home and their family?
    im in a city in a country where automatic weapons are illegal but i have been shot at three times in the past 18 months with various automatic weapons while going about my daily business and regularly hear automatic gunfire in the distance, availability of guns is a redundant question when it comes to criminals, heroin is illegal but they still have lots of it and they have no problem getting guns no matter where they are in the world, so why should criminals be the ones who are armed and the upright citizens the ones denied the right to protect themselves? in the us the right to bear arms is engrained into the psyche as an inalienable right, here you can get arrested because you punch a mugger, the difference is in the us if you are a criminal you forego many of your rights through your actions, here there is the view that you as an individual can not protect yourself but must rely on an approved outside force such as the police, now this is just to try and bring a little light on the two different views, so the right to bear arms isnt just about the possibility of the british telling the colonials they cant have guns or about the us being invaded by costa rica, it is about a right and a freedom to defend yourself from aggression and violence, it is a principle with many things to it,
     
  7. Linda

    Linda Well-Known Member

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    Yes, that would be the nicest thing if nobody ever wished to use a weapon for a purpose other than a target practice. Unfortunately, it is not like this now. So, I have to protect myself, and many other people do.
    Legal guns DO reduce crime. For example, in Kenessaw everyone _must_ have a gun, and the crime is law.
    However, Madjon, I have to agree with you that the culture matters. But violence does not always includes guns. For example, in Russia, where people violence now is worse than in the US, they will use a kitchen knife or a vodka bottle to kill.
    Clarie, you have a right thought about people shooting each other over stupid things. However, it is preventabe with a careful investigation of every occasion where a gun was involved. In fact now in RI, if you had used the gun even righteously, you have to prove that had no choice. In the other hand, now the bandits use guns against us, and we just can not protect ourselves. In fact, if a jerk knows that the potential victim MIGHT carry a gun, a jerk will look for easier victim. It is also important _which_ people will be shoot more. I feel no sorry for jerks who were shoot for trying to attack people or their property.
    For myself - I will protect myself, my famly, my animals and my property with whatever will be availible. If someone will be killed this is not my fault, I did not attack first.
    And after all, there are three things where prohbition makes the roblem worse: alcohol, aborion, and guns.
     
  8. madjon

    madjon Active Member

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    have been reading the news, looking at comments on different sites and things, this isnt strictly related to american gun laws or culture,and isnt related to anyone here, but there are some good points to look at.
    1, a lot of people got killed for no reason which is sad and quite wrong
    2, there appear to be a lot of people shouting their own political causes, ban guns and it serves the us right.
    so i may point out that this is a tragedy and has nothing to do with american laws on guns or international politics, but the actions of a lone individual acting outside of the law, and is a terrible thing to happen, and it should be remembered foremost as such. i have been quite appauled at news sites and the comments which are anti american and a lot of people shouting about the evils of guns. and using this as a platform for their own political ends.

    it wasnt about gun control or society, this was about an individual who went off the deep end and killed a lot of innocent people with weapons he had bought illegally as in outside of the law without a legal right to do so, i have read a lot from sanctimonious people in the uk saying its different here and pointing fingers and shouting ban it, well it is worth remembering that it doesnt matter where you are, in the uk in any major city with a few hundred pounds it is easier to get an illegal gun and a couple of clips in a couple of hours than it is to get a psychiatrists appointment.
    so maybe its worth bearing in mind that it doesnt matter where your from, a bunch of young uni kids getting shot up is a bloody tragedy, and how many of them are going to be scarred by it and end up with life long bad things who knows.
    and maybe next time im shot at in town as i walk to the shops i can bear in mind our stringent gun controls mean it isnt happening as the gun they are using is illegal and isnt easily available and we have such a great country.
     
  9. Claire

    Claire Well-Known Member

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    I dont really want this thread going into the rights and wrongs of the specific incident in America this week. Its purely that that has highlighted the subject to me personally. I've wanted to hear the American side of the story on gun use and control for some time. As I know there are many Americans on this site I posted this to hear their side of the story.

    I personally dont think we need guns in this country. I believe in innocent until proven guilty and that life is precious regardless of who's it is.
     
  10. Linda

    Linda Well-Known Member

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    Hmmmm..... The bastard who broke into your house, raped your wife, killed you kid, took you property - innocent? His nasty life - pretty? NO WAY. If no gun, I will use a knife or whatever.
     
  11. No-Twitch-Tabitha

    No-Twitch-Tabitha Well-Known Member

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    One word: protection. For some people, "please stop hurting me/my family/my friends" isn't enough. They don't listen to talk, they spit on chances to rehabilitate or feel that they aren't subject to the law. We are past the days where simple fisticuffs does it.
     
  12. anthony

    anthony Renovation Aficionado Founder

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    I must say, I don't agree with American law on firearms, and lets be honest, any gun freely available is a bad gun to have in circulation, legal or illegal. I like the theory that if guns are something that can be legally purchased, then bullets need to be $5000 each. There would definately be no more of these type shootings, because no uni kid could afford that in bullets, rich parents or not, with the incident that has just taken place in Virginia.

    I can see in a couple of years, there will be kids from that incident here, with PTSD, as a result. I agree with Jon, being that the incident is horrific in every way, and the kids are going to suffer for much longer than most know. Any person shot is one too many for my liking.

    I don't agree with Marilyn's statement regarding protecting oneself... because lets be honest here, there is a vast difference between someone attacking you with a fist compared to a gun. There is a vast difference between protecting oneself from an enemy, compared to protecting oneself from you own country. If you want to talk about using statements to condem gun use in America, the statement of protecting oneself from oppressors and the like is not it, because America is not being invaded.

    I do agree with Marilyn on the matter of America's social and economic problems. Society and political policy has destroyed America over the past decades, to the point now where all other countries are merely waiting for the USA to implode basically, then rebuild and start again without all the nonsense constitution that causes more harm than good.

    Any rule that is set in stone is not a good rule. A good rule is one in which can be changed to suit and reflect society as society itself changes, not attempt to keep a society within control via laws set from the stone age, hence America's social and economic problems. A constitution must be able to be amended constantly as social bearing requires, not simply be set in concrete and attempt to move society within out dated laws.

    America and immigration is another issue. America wanted to build itself to become a social and economic world power, so they opened their borders to anyone and everyone, hence now with so many other races, religions, ethics and cultures within one country, internal implosion is highly possible because everyone is far too busy fighting one another, instead of living by one set of laws and culturalistic values. Yes, I said it... if someone lives in another country they should adopt that countries cultures, and their own fall second. We make choices to live in another country, yet people form societies within societies, hence the major issue within the continental US.
     
  13. Marilyn_S

    Marilyn_S Well-Known Member

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    I wish this were a world where there were no guns, knifes as weapons or aggressiveness and hatred. However, unless the government is willing to have enough prison space to house all the criminal (murderers) for life, and enough government workers to collect all the private firearms of all the innocent citizens who wish to hunt for food, fur, and sport; even though the right to bear an arm is taken (CRIMINALS WILL STILL HAVE GUNS!) I believe in gun responsibility. I believe all gun owners should have to have back ground checks and psych evals. I also believe that all gun owners, collectors, sportsmen, should have to take a test to acquire a fire arm to assure they are knowledgable and psychologically sound to have a fire arm. If a gun owner is irresponsible, and does not lock his/her guns in a safe place and that gun is used by a child or a criminal to kill someone, (that gun owner should be held CRIMINALLY RESPONSIBLE)! In my oppinion, guns are a necessary evil for innocent people to protect themselves against murderers and the off hand chance of necessity for a militia due to oppressiveness of either our own government or the government of another country. Mao Ze Dong stated, "Power comes from the barrell of a gun." I do not think there would be a communist China if there were not private ownership of guns for members of the communist party in China. I understand all the folks who feel that gun contol is the key. If it were actually a fact that guns were able to be controlled that would be ideal. But is there ever truely gun control, or just the illusion of gun control that enables criminals to have more power than regular citizens.

    Food for thought.
     
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