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Has Anyone Else Experienced The Paradoxical Effects Of Methamphetamines On 'fight Or Flight'/rages ?

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When my cptsd was at its very worst and I was homeless and experiencing violent rages everyday from being triggered by an accululation of recent quite overwhelming traumatic events and binge drinking to self medicate, then I descovered Ice.

I don't want to generate discussion around the stigma and whether its a good or bad substance. I am interested to find out if anyone else with trauma who experiences/exeritnced debilitating fight responses (or any type of trauma related response, brain fog, dissociative etc) that has for whatever reason had IV methamphetamines during one of those states of being triggered has experienced the drug as instantly soothing and calming...?

I can only describe my experience as going from a state of acute rage in which I am completely helpless to the grossly overwhelming anger that I am also acutely aware of in every respect (how inapropriate it is, how revolting it feels to have that much toxic sweaty and incoherent violence in you that you don't even endorse yourself but you're at its mercy. IV ice takes that foggy, terrifying, totally raw and vulnerable state of fear presenting as anger and just melts it in seconds ... In seconds I was able ro see a clear and rational perspective and view things objectivity. Things felt possible again.

I used the substance and its effects of being able to systematically go about planning and carrying out the necessary steps to break out of the homelessness loop id found myself in.

I've now since then never developed psychosis or symptoms of and respond badly to antipsychotics and never experienced any rages, delusions OD grandeur or been inclined to or engaged in the much publicized risky sex as ice takes away my want or enjoyment of being affectionate or tactile - it makes me focussed and practical - wanting to achieve things I can't in my usual state .

Most people I know who are addicted to ice have truama. Mine is; complex/childhood trauma.
I've read that as the catalyst events to CPTSD happened at a young age, people with CPTSD's brains actually develop diffeently as a result and grow to function in fear mode, generating hypervigilence, insomnia, scanning for fear from a accentuated amygdala activity which is responsible for 'fight or flight' responses. this chronic state means you're flooded with cortisole and adrenaline most of the time which means you're very vulnerable to substance abuse and addiction which can lead to developing what sounds like serotonin syndrome: rages, chronic anxiety, constipation)

I would have thought that as CPTSD means I live everyday with adrenaline and cortisole among other things pumping through my system most of the time that tge last thing os respond well to wotld be a drug that hugely increases the rapid production of those things !? I'm desperate to understand why this happens and if there is anyone out there whose had a similar experirnce, has answers as to why or has anykind of alternative treatments or insights into this ???!

Please try not to cast aspirsions - We have enough fearmongering generated by the government, media, and health services which is perpetrated by the general public whose only source of information on the subject is the aforementioned services. here in Melbourne, Australia we are apparently having an ice epidemic though its actually in a government manipulated drought and this has meant that what os being sold is not methamphetamines but hybrids of cutters and things like phenelephrine..methamphetamines have been around for about 15 years and purity and numbers of addicts has decreased.

Missinformation and illinformed clichè psychological and physical effects of the drug and dangerous judgmental attitudes of service staff as well as a complete disregard for harm mininusstion or insights meaning most service workers refuse to learn, listen or provide adequate response and care. This has consumed most AOD related areas of all forms of media including the internet.

But nowhere that focuses on a genuinely helpful source of information and shared experiences for those who don't experience the ice addiction stereotype and don't therefore respond to its associated treatment options and 'information or help' offered of which is scarce as it is.

But there is no harm reduction focused support or information anywhere for those who want to share experiences to understand what's going on for their bodies and brains and inform and empower themselves to stay as safe as possible. Instead our willpower Is eroded;' and the vital information, that validates and helps you to accept your reality and feel less vulnerable goes unacknowledged.

I am not promoting my experience nor endorse the drug but I am desperate to understand it and find some actual help.
 
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I would have thought that as CPTSD means I live everyday with adrenaline and cortisole among other things pumping through my system most of the time that tge last thing os respond well to wotld be a drug that hugely increases the rapid production of those things !? I'm desperate to understand why this happens and if there is anyone out there whose had a similar experirnce, has answers as to why or has anykind of alternative treatments or insights into this ???!
Ever heard of a runner's high? Or the "high" addictive feeling of an adrenaline rush people get from roller coasters or jumping out of planes?

When the body has a burst of trauma survival hormones like cortisol, it can feel good in the short run.

Meth is like that, times 1000x, until it stops giving someone this false feeling of it "working." And then they are usually in hell. That's not judgement, that's the nature of the drug. It makes people feel great, and super focused and like they can be clear minded and get shit done, for awhile. Then the body eventually crashes and the physiological dependency on the drug drags them into a really awful dark and painful place. People taking meth usually don't see the damaging effects on themselves until longer after everyone around them sees it. That's also what the drug does. It fools the brain into thinking everything is ok. "I'm not raging or delusional, and I can focus, and I feel great!" while the body and the way the person presents to others is quite off.

That's not a judgement, it's just the nature of what the drug does, and it's quite heartbreaking to see happen.

Many people taking meth start off using it to self medication the pain of trauma, some take it to lose weight, others to be better students, others to work more hours... etc. It's quite "normal" and common for people to feel really good and capable and a relaxed feeling while taking it, sometimes for quite some time. It's also normal that others around them do not think they are doing as good as the person taking meth feels they are doing. That's the drug. It tricks the brain a bit.

I have yet to meet a functional person who was able to take meth on a long term on-going basis without ending up in jail or hospitalized against their wishes and with significant problems including brain damage that usually made ptsd more difficult to treat over the long haul. Not impossible to treat ptsd by any means, but certainly more difficult. In order to heal from PTSD, someone has to be ready and willing to feel like crap at times. It sucks.

I get the impression that you are not ready to stop taking ice, and that is your choice. I hope perhaps you will keep in mind that there are other ways to feel good again, without all the legal, medical, and other risks and down sides to meth. Will you feel as good as quickly? nope. But it will last, and unlike meth, it will get better and better over time and others will notice the positive change too.

I'm so sorry you have been through childhood trauma and had to survive being homeless on top of it. That's just awful. You deserve real and robust treatment for that trauma. Taking meth and jacking up the cortisol levels, especially to that point of feeling so good, will somatically interfere with most forms of trauma therapy, because it will leave someone artificially stuck in those high cortisol states.
But there is no harm reduction focused support or information anywhere for those who want to share experiences to understand what's going on for their bodies and brains and inform and empower themselves to stay as safe as possible. Instead our willpower Is eroded;' and the vital information, that validates and helps you to accept your reality and feel less vulnerable goes unacknowledged. I am not promoting my experience nor endorse the drug but I am desperate to understand it and find some actual help.
I know a therapist who works at an addiction treatment facility where they have a harm reduction philosophy. I agree it does help a number of people that don't easily fit into other treatment means, especially for trauma victims who have been disempowered. However, even for harm reduction to work, the same critical elements need to be in place: the client has to be ready and willing to face the real pain they have been running from, they have to be ready to accept that the drug has real dangers and risks, and what they have been doing hasn't been working well enough, and they need to be ready to make changes in how they have been doing life so they can not endure so much harm and work towards healthier ways of living and doing life.
 
Cash on the table says you're ADHD.

Opposite Stimulant Reaction = Hallmark.

Whether that's taking stimulants, or the instant calm of an adrenaline rush.

***

Oversimplifying just a smidge, the stronger the stimulant? The more soothing it is. It's also extremely rare for ADHD folk to get addicted to stimulants, although we can get addicted to most other things, in general we go on/off high dose stimulants for long periods of time with... nothing. No kick. As long as you haven't been mixing, we get addicted to & withdraw terribly from most other chemicals. Dangerously, we also OD differently. But the reason that there are over 80 commonly Rx'd ADHD meds, and only 1 of them (Atomoxetine) is a non-stimulant? That opposite stimulant reaction. Most are amphetamines (aside from the purely methylphenidate family -Ritalin- most ADHD meds are some combo of amphetamine, dextroamphetamine, lisdexamphatamine, methamphetamine / desoxyn, dexmethamphetamine, lisdexmethaphetamine), although it is possible to be Rx'd cocaine based medications, they're extremely rare in the US, and a stone cold bitch to fill at a pharmacy, much less travel with.

The single biggest problem with any street drug is quality control. As in there isn't any. Various amateur chemists manufacture all kinds of toxic garbage along with what they're actually trying to make, & dealers stomp product to death. If you're extreeeeeemely lucky, they didn't do that literally with rat poison (regardless of the pretty visuals, and shiny hair/clear skin small doses of arsenic provide, rat poison is still f*cking rat poison, and arsenic is bad for you), or battery acid, or lithium (bipolar folk loooooooove lithium based speedballs; because, duh, it's the street version upper/downer/stablizer of the Rx they'd get from the doctor; but lithium based speed will send ADHD peeps into serious psychosis)... But very few dealers are all conscientious about only using vitB to cut their dope. Assuming they're even the first ones to cut it. Which leads to the 2nd biggest problem; dosing. As there is absolutely no way for anyone except a chemist to know the actual percentages of what's in what you're taking. High volume sales include chemical testing, but without a spare 50k or so for the equipment & training? The average dealer, much less user, is rolling the dice every time they do a bump. 12%? 94%? No one knows until it hits their bloodstream.

AKA... If stimulants actually work for you? (As opposed to the high numbing out PTSD symptoms, which is also a thing). Go see a doctor. Get diagnosed. Get clean meds that have actually been under exquisite quality control, and are in accurately dosed capsules or tabs.

- From one of several people here on the forum who are comorbid ADHD + PTSD
 
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@Justmehere well said. A dozen likes if I could.

Here is the thing, I am not going to try and convince you how bad the drug is. I would be wasting my time if I tried to get you to stop. What I am going to do is ask you to file what I have to say away in your brain for later.

My mom was a meth addict and dealer. My experience with the drug is purely observational, but the culture that come with the drug was a huge part of my life and the impact of it haunts me to this day. My response to you is twofold. One part is pure selfishness on my part in the form of exposure therapy. The other part is to offer you a different perspective.

Here is a thought. You will never be able to consume a consistent daily dose of a drug you get off the street. Because of that, you are going to experience periods of withdrawals. The longer you use the worse those withdrawals will become. Meth killed my mom but it wasn't the high that did it. It was the withdrawals.

My mom may or may not have had PTSD. At the very least, she had damage from my narcissist grandma. I am sure she was self medicating. The thing was though, when she would come off the drug, she was hit with an intensified version of emotional and mental disturbances. This caused her to become suicidal. One day the intense rush of emotions from coming off the drug drove her to take her life via an intentional OD. Of prescription medications.

@Friday makes an excellent point about ADHD. For what it's worth, I think you should at least look into it and try to get an evaluation. If you do have ADHD. At least you would have a consistent medication with reliable dosage that would address and treat the symptoms you are taking something unreliable for.

I know this doesn't address the issue you came here for. I hope @Friday was helped there, I just want you to file away what I had to say for when you decided you are ready to see a professional.
 
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Well I just learned I don't have ADHD. Good. ( too much caffeine and I'm through the roof)

However I have to echo what everybody else says. Go legit. It's safer and it will keep you not only alive but not going on higher and higher doses until you are at the mercy of some pusher. Just my two cents.
 
I have ADD + PTSD and I take meds at times for it, and I agree with @Friday! A good work up of ADHD and getting on steady quality meds could be the key and you could have ADD/ADHD and find a much better long term solution with a lot more relief.

I'll throw out these caveats:

In my conversations with meth users, meth makes many people people without ADHD feel euphoric, focused, and chill too - and they would say they let this way when on the outside they were revved up.

Plus, further mudding the picture, new studies have shown stimulants can make people without ADD/ADHD calm and focused too: (Dead Link Removed)

But generally, the adage that if a small amount of caffeine or stimulants is calming instead of inducing the jitters, then it's a good idea to get an eval for ADHD! For most people, it does increase anxiety. For me, it can calm me out of a panicky meltdown - that kind of paradoxical effect is very suggestive of ADD/ADHD. (So my doctor and nueropsychologist tell me...)

As explained here, there are better paths for ADHD sufferers than using street meth and street math could make the underlying ADHD worse over time - ADHD and Crystal Meth: A Combination That's Ruining Lives - Ashcreek Ranch Academy "A recent study of users of meth who suffer from ADHD were shown to be at a greater risk for declines in efficacy at performing basic activities associated with daily living, as well as elevated symptoms of the disorder in general, as well as being much more likely to be chronically unemployed." Study here: Attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder among chronic methamphetamine users: frequency, persistence, and adverse effects on everyday functioning. - PubMed - NCBI

I hope these clues you have picked up on help you find a good solution for the symptoms you are struggling with.
 
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I've never used any drugs other than what was prescribed or offered by an authority figure. Long story on that. But basically nothing illegal and what was shared was extremely necessary or minimal.

So I'm a "lightweight" and can't really drink or take much meds. I sometimes even take child size doses and that works better for me.

But lately, due to stress making my nose stuffy, or allergies, or both, I can't function without taking real Pseudophed, which is one ingredient to Meth, right?

And when I feel it hit, it feels like I've had a little bit of coffee and a Xanax. It's nice.

I think that the body goes off balance due to all kinds of things. Taking more to try to balance it chemically? Never ending game, maybe?

I don't have answers.
 
Thank you so much for all the really genuine and human responses - and for responding with respect and integrity - especially the responses with mention of ADD or ADHD - I have recently seen one of the worst psychiatrists I've ever experienced who has created a trauma just from the one appointment (and I've seen them since the age of four so in 30 years or so that's significant) But... He did hazard a guess at me having ADD or ADHD as well as cptsd ... A lot suggests he is right so I've booked for for two separate psychiatric assessments with psychs I trust.. I've been trying to seem off of 'ice' which I don't believe there really is much of anyway / it's become the emperors new stimulant - phenelephrine, msn powder, but nothing that resembles methamphetamines.. However I have noticed that when it is rarely an actual amphetamine - I calm down from my adrenalin charged permanent state of bring and all the mental barriers melt away and I can calmly go about my day and feel like things are possible - I wouldn't even say euphoric - at its best it made things on my to do list posdible - so I've no idea what all the litrature about risky sex etc I'd about as it also makes me feel more functional but less tactile... I've des covered amino acids and neurotransmitter supplements plus 'smart drugs' and have found a bit of relief in amongst them all sometimes and am planning to try a combination of neurotransmitter/cognitive function supplements, modafinil or some kind of 'smart drug' And dex amphetamines and try my best to kick the horrid habit that literally is a key form every fkn fkd time now and just seems to pump me full of pure agitation - and the same batch has little or no effect yet when it's the right thing we have the same effect except that I am noticing clamber Abd he is either hyper focussed or sometimes it's impossible to keep his attention where it actually htl of me maintain mine. Anyone with both CPTSD and add or ADHD - PLEASE write to me your experiences and how you manage the two with medications??? In Currently attending emdr and it is wonderful but it's going to be a long slow process because my defended are sky high and I'm did ally in a panic state trying to get there which makes treatment less effective !! Any advice at all would be so valuable and appreciated. Cheers, crystal (yes ironic name but it is my really name!)
 
Do you realize that the way you write has changed pretty dramatically from your first post to this one? It's actually hard to figure out a good percentage of your last post. This isn't a critique, just asking to see if you are aware of it. I hope you are alright, it's hard to follow what you wrote.

The reason ice may not be working as well is because your brain is getting used to it, rather than it not being real meth. There is indeed tons of real meth in this country. It's going to work less and less well for you over time and it's probably going to spike more and more negative symptoms and agitation as the good effects of it wear off.

It's also a situation where you can not control the potency like one could from a pharmacist.

I hope you consider inpatient treatment at a dual trauma / addiction treatment center as a possible option and that your EMDR therapist knows - they can help. I went to a place that took people with ptsd without addictions together with people with ptsd with addictions, and they helped people get on to the right meds, including stimulants when warranted, as they got clean.

There isn't a quality outpatient doc out there that's going to prescribe most ADD/ADHD stimulants to an active meth user until you can get he support you need to stop using street drugs. It's not judgement on you, it's just how it is.

Modafinal is a solid option, but the doc is going to need to know you won't self medicate with it, but take as prescribed.

As someone with C ptsd and ADD/ADHD, going inpatient at a trauma specialized unit was the best way for me to figure out meds when I was really struggling.
 
Do you realize that the way you write has changed pretty dramatically from your first post to this o...

Thank you so much for your response Justmehere, really appreciate your honesty and feedback.
Yes, I keep meaning to log-in from a computer and fix up all the ghastly indecipherable garble that my very user-unfriendly loan phone at the time scrambled my words into. The phone I had was particularly painful with its operating system turning my typing into predictive text nightmare - but I was desperate to get my post up in a short space of time and headspsce which used up so much of my calm energy that I just had to choose between posting it anyway or letting it go. Of course I have been meaning to fix it up as not only is it impossible to read, but I have two writing qualifications so it's very embarrassing for me.
But daily life is such a struggle that my PHAMS worker has had to put up a self care checklist in my bathroom to make sure when she sees me that I've had a shower that week. Most of the time I never leave the house and personal admin never gets properly taken care of so trying to focus on putting up posts or responding takes me weeks at the moment. I'm not angling for sympathy or trying to be defensive at all just wanted to paint the picture so that it's easier to understand the context.
You said you went to have treatment at an inpatient treatment at a dual trauma / addiction treatment center - may I ask for the phone number or name of the place?
Thanks again for your post.
 
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