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News Human Rights For Sex Offenders

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Hashi

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I'm not sure why I'm posting this, or what I want from replies (if there are any).

I work in the field of criminal justice - I chose this before recovering memories and it has certainly been challenging to start remembering, healing and having therapy for what happened to me, while working in an environment that brings me into contact with offenders and offender management. The personal contact is -thankfully - limited, but it's there. Work on policy and written complaints/comments is occasional, but when it happens it's a big problem for me.

I have a lot of conflict over this. I think everyone should have human rights.

I'm from the UK and we don't have a constitution. Apart from the magna carta which isn't relevant to what I mean here, for hundreds of years our legal system was based on having no rights but particular legal decisions setting a precedent which gave some. (Compared to a constitution giving fundamental rights which legal precedents modified.) More recently we've had legislation that does give us enshrined rights, notably the European Human Rights Act. When I first read this, I cried because of all the legal rights in it that I've lost in some way because of what happened to me:

Right to life
Freedom from torture and inhuman or degrading treatment
Right to liberty and security
Freedom from slavery and forced labour
No punishment without law
Right to marry and start a family
Right to peaceful enjoyment of your property

So, I read complaints from sex offender prisoners about their treatment in prison. They complain, for example, that they can't exercise for the stated half hour per day because exercise is in an area with general prisoners and general prisoners... let's just say they don't like sex offenders.

I believe that every human being has the right to be treated decently and fairly. But I find it very hard to apply this, because a sex offender could actually be one of my attackers and, if not, they are someone else's. I think my problem is that I don't see them as human. I feel that they chose not to be. If it didn't suit them to be human then, why should they suddenly be allowed to be human now?

And I can't help thinking - not having 30 minutes exercise a day is nothing compared to what the people you affected are going through.

But I'm not the judge or jury. I don't know their case or anything about them. No punishment without law, right?



By the way, the decision to find a different job is about to be made for me since I'm probably about to be made redundant. I'm quite anxious about how I'll manage, but I suppose at least I won't have this in front of me on a regular basis.
 
Hashi this is a thought provoking thread. Sex offenders, pediphiles do not do well in prison. This is common knowledge.

Often they go on suicide watch. I think the high profile ones will be in isolation.

I am not interested in them having any rights. They are going to offend if given the chance. Just look at all of the older ones getting caught recently.

I do not feel sorry for them. Their denial is intact and they often never admit to what they had done. They need to be in programs with alot of supervision.

Now a days when one is released from prison, whole nieghborhoods protest them moving into their areas. They have to go somewhere. With all of the new disclosure laws it is making it harder and harder for them to find a place to live. I am glad society has had enough and is putting a stop to having a pediphile in their neighborhood.

They have so many victims by the time they get caught if they get caught. Prison justice is harsh on them. I do not think they are entitled to human rights. They did the crimes against children. There are so many of them. This is just my opinion. I do not think they are entitled to human rights.
 
They have the right to be guarded just like any other prisoner, and if they are attacked, then guards should treat the situation as they would any other (get them hospital treatment).And they should have the right to not exercise.

But should they be given special times to exercise just in case someone bigger than them hurts them. No. I think they should understand the fear that their victims go through.

It always feels to me that people who prey on younger, weaker or more vulnerable people seem to view themselves as victims of society. And maybe some of them were once victims of abuse themselves.

But that attitude of 'victim' is too often used to justify abusing others (it's always the other persons fault). So if it is reinforced by being given special treatment in prison, then the prison service is validating that the abuser is the victim.

As long as they have that attitude, then in my opinion, they will think others have asked to be abused, it's not their fault, they have no responsibility for their actions etc.
 
I am not sure if the information I have is correct, but this is what I was told by a "t"; 4 out of 5 types of sexual abuse perps cannot be rehabilitated and they need to be kept from society at large...so that only one type of perp should receive psychiatric treatment in lieu of prison time.

As for basic human rights, I think they should get food, water and a bit of exercise, (but that would be about all I would allow them to have if it were up to me). I am pretty sure they can live without cable television!!!

Anyway, this is a very thought-provoking thread as I think punishment for sexual offenses are too lenient, especially those involving young children and I can't imagine the stress I would suffer if I had to work in the criminal justice system today.
 
My biggest issue with the prision system is that they seem to have the right to have things that I can't afford. I can't afford to exersize at a gym and use weights, I can't afford cable, I can't afford an education and yet in prision these things are usually their right.

I also love what Meadowsweet said "I think they should understand the fear that their victims go through." Now I don't think we should turn a blind eye if they are being beaten up etc but it sure would be nice for them to have to live with the consequences of their actions and feel the fear that they have given us.

Also what Lionheart said about not being able to rehabilitate is so true. The way it was explained to me is that most sexual reoffenders WILL reoffend. There is a very small percentage that can be rehabillitaed. We as a society need to be protected from repeat offenders. Our right to be protected from abuse should outway the rights of repeat offenders.

Anyway, you can tell I feel strongly about this but it is just my opinion.
 
If mental illness is defined as a state of mind in which a person causes distress and/or harm to themselves and/or others, then all sex offenders are sick. And they are, in fact, mentally ill; they have problems with impulse control, severely warped reasoning, problems with empathy and a thick shell of rationalisations around their bad decisions.

We, as a society, do have the right and also the duty to protect ourselves from dangerous people. So we have to put sex offenders in jail and keep them there as long as necessary.

But we don't have the right to punish them. First of all because their illness limits their ability to control their own thoughts, emotions and behaviours and thereby takes a lot of responsibility away from them. Second of all because punishment is an anachronistic, vengeful, undignified and most of all ineffective way of approaching undesired behaviours; it causes a lot more harm than good and doesn't reach the goal of changing people's behavioural patterns in the long run. Only rehabilitation can do that.

We also don't have the right to let any harm come to the people we've taken into the custody of the prison system. They are goddamn prisoners, they have nowhere to go, they're completely powerless and at our mercy, like infants or pets. We have to feed them, keep them warm, keep them busy and keep them safe. That's our second responsibility, aside from rehabilitation.

Seriously, people, I completely understand that as a victim of sexual abuse you are chock full of anger, disgust and hatred. But you can't let the abuse drag you into a mind set where you take human rights away from another person.

That's precisely the way your abusers looked at you. But unlike them you are able to be better than your impulses.
 
Seriously, people, I completely understand that as a victim of sexual abuse you are chock full of anger, disgust and hatred. But you can't let the abuse drag you into a mind set where you take human rights away from another person.

I think what the original post refers to, is that in the UK sex offenders are give a seperate wing of the prison to protect them etc. But they use the human rights bill to try to secure special treatment within prison.

For example, because they feel they are more at risk of being bullied or attacked whilst exercising with other prisoners, they put forward a case for sex offenders to be allowed to exercise at different times to other offenders.

Hypothetically, if I went to prison for non-interpersonal crime, it would scare me to be amongst people who are capable of murder and rape because I would be at more risk of attack than I was outside prison. Could I say, well I feel in danger in prison, can I have my own cell and my own time to exercise etc?

It's not about punishing one offender more than another. Its about not giving one more privelages than another.

Rehabilitation and mental illness is an entirely different matter. All prisoners should have that. But I thionk part of that is getting sex offenders to understand that they have done something that has seriously damaged another person.
 
Its about not giving one more privelages than another.
Being safe from bullying and assault is not a special privilege, it's a right that all other prisoners have, too*. Also the sex offenders aren't demanding super special treatment, they just want a minor schedule adjustment that will keep them out of harm's way.

It's even in the general public's interest if the prisons are kept as peaceful as possible. Every fight injury and every hospitalisation of prisoners is paid for with tax money. I recon that the half hour of additional guard time needed to supervise a second round of prison sports is a lot less expensive.

*EDIT: Sex offenders are at special risk of being injured; you as an ordinary thief or manager would only have the ordinary risk that comes with being in prison. High risk populations get extra care - evening out the inequalities - in all other situations. Why not in the prison system?
 
I just want to clarify that I don't think people should be beaten up in prison or brutalised in any other way. Maybe it's different in other countries, but in the UK prisoners wouldn't be able to be physically violent to others during exercise time. They may be verbally abusive and threatening, but I wasn't advocating that either. I was just saying that the result of joint exercise time is that sex offenders may end up not having outside exercise time in order to avoid harrassment, and that it's hard for me to feel sympathy over that.

Depriving someone of outside exercise is a type of punishment. It's also withholding a right (because it's a right within our prison system).

But - given the effect their own actions have caused - it's hard for me to care about them having that additional restriction (or other ones - again, not to do with violence or harrassment but things like different opportunities for having visitors or having their names on the sex offenders' register after release). I read so many complaints from sex offenders about things like this, and it's hard because I suppose I want them to say- yes, I should expect to have more restrictions on what I can do, because of what I chose to do in the past. Maybe some do, but obviously the ones whose letters I see don't.

It does tie in to the idea that many offenders don't feel remorse, whatever they say, and can't/won't be rehabilitated. But I supposedly believe in human rights, so that would apply to them too.

Obviously, we're taking away some of the usual rights just by putting people in prison. I know people often feel that prisoners having basic accommodation, food, cable TV etc is something other people have to work hard for or may not have, but I don't think that makes up for losing your freedom, opportunities, self-determination, dignity and choice.

I understand people's anger, but I didn't mean to start a thread to say horrible things should happen to sex offenders. I just meant that it's a real conflict for me, to see a letter from a sex offender saying "I want my rights" when of all crimes this is one of those that particularly destroys the human rights of other people. It's really difficult.
 
Freakofnurture, Hashi has explained the UK system above, so I won't go over it. But offenders are not left unguarded during exercise time, so although the desire for others to harm them may be greater, they do have protection from prison guards.

As far as I'm aware (and I'm no expert) sex offenders especially child seuxual abusers, are give their own wing, and do not share cells with people who've committed other offences.

So their saftey and their rights to be unharmed are already protected to a high degree.

But the fact remains that sex offenders have to take some responsibility for what they have done before they can ever be rehabilitated. Where is the guilt or remorse when they are writing the letter to demand their rights?
 
Maybe it depends on which prison they are in, but my father was friends with a convicted sex offender who was considered high profile at the time, and he was also very very rich.

He had his own room, which I think I remember my father saying was seperate from the rest of the prisoners, and other sex offenders...and he had reportedly been allowed to deck it out in very opulent surrounding...velvet curtains, nice furniture etc.

I guess it does come down to money in some cases.
 
But - given the effect their own actions have caused - it's hard for me to care about them having that additional restriction
I understand and it was never my intention to criticise or invalidate your feelings. I see how my post very much appeared to attack your position directly; that wasn't my intention and I want to apologise for not making it clear.
(EDIT: I also want to apologise if I didn't make it clear enough that I don't want to invalidate, judge or dismiss your feelings.)

Please note that I want to merely detail my own position in the next paragraph; I want to make it very clear that I am not trying to imply that you want to prioritise punishment or apathy towards the rights of sex offenders over their rehabilitation.
(or other ones - again, not to do with violence or harrassment but things like different opportunities for having visitors or having their names on the sex offenders' register after release).
I am very much in favour of every measure that is effective in protecting the public, even if it means negative attention for the offenders. Public safety overrides some of their rights. But as many aspects as possible about the way they are treated in prison have to be optimised to aid in their therapy and rehabilitation. Exercise and safety (also from 'mere' verbal abuse) are two of these aspects.
So their saftey and their rights to be unharmed are already protected to a high degree.
Not high enough, in my opinion.
But the fact remains that sex offenders have to take some responsibility for what they have done before they can ever be rehabilitated. Where is the guilt or remorse when they are writing the letter to demand their rights?
I haven't read the letter concerned, so this next question isn't rhetorical: How do you know that the prisoners writing the letter didn't feel remorse?

Also, how is enduring verbal abuse a sign of taking responsibility? They aren't forced to answer to the accusations and questions of good citizens, they are yelled at by people who think they're pathetic for raping (male) children instead of grown women (like real men do).
 
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