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I Think I'm Sabotaging Myself.

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I've been thinking about this quite a while now.

When I self-sabotage now, it is mainly for a) fear (e.g. not go to see a doctor because I'm scared of the possible results) or b) for the reason that I don't really want to do something taking into consideration all that the possible success entails.

b) is especially true with regard to (possible) relationships.

To give you an example: If you have success regarding a relationship, e.g. you ask someone out and they'll say yes, you will actually have to follow up on that. So, e.g. you ask today to go out next Friday. Since I can't know what next Friday holds (i.e. will I feel well enough to go, will I still want to, will something else have come up I'd prefer, will I have changed my mind but no clue of how to break the news to the person, etc. etc.), I may have a real problem even with that possible first date. After all a "yes" from the person concerned (i.e. success), will have it be my turn next.

So, what if that date happens and all goes well. Again, so many unknowns. Will I ask for another one? Will the other person? How long should I wait? Should I ask? Should they?

I do realize this is the anxiety in all of this and the letting go of things I cannot control anyways. But that is exactly my problem! I can not control things or people or what will happen. So many unknowns. That's why I am often scared of success: because all that it entails is still often too much for me to deal with.

Just to mention a different example: I am currently applying for jobs. Very good jobs with a great pay. All good! But what if the interview goes well? I'll have to make a decision for or against it. Who will tell me what the "right" decision to take is? What if I my decision will turn out to have been wrong later?

I do know I can't control these things. In some cases (job) I try to find a way of dealing with those fears and go to the interview anyways and will deal with whatever comes up later. With other things, e.g. some relationships, I don't dare take that step.

I am sorry I have no solution for you, and maybe this has nothing to do with you at all and you won't be able to use this. I hope you'll find your way through this. And I agree with what The Albatross said. You are ready to take the next step. There is almost always fear when taking new steps, at least this is true for my life.
 
I want to believe I can change but I just don't know.

Maybe you are just so used to feeling like a failure that reaching for the opposite is so far outside of your comfort zone and unfamiliar that it's safer to just stay put where everything is predictable?

It's normal for the mind to start spewing out negative thoughts and beliefs about ourselves whenever we decide to step up to the plate and look at changing. The mind hates change. You are not your mind though.

I related to a lot of what you spoke about in your Original post, including your experiences in your job.

I've always been good at analyzing myself but past that, I pretty much suck at things.

I'm sure you'd be able to find a few things that you are actually good at besides analyzing yourself, if you really started to look past what you focus on as being 'everything you suck at'. We all have things we do well, but usually don't give ourselves enough credit for.
 
I'm just so scared to let anyone close to me and I f*ck things up on purpose because of it and I can't stop. For as long as i can remember I've felt like I had difficulties socially that I didn't know how to interact with people. I used to feel like there was some secret code that peopel spoke to each other to relate to each other that I just could not get. I don't feel that way any more but I still can't seem to interact with people at all. It used ot be I had so much anxiety I would shut down in social situations. Thats not the case any more but I still seem to manage to always f*ck things up with people. I'm not mean or rude to them, I just always manage to act in a way that makes them lose interest in me. I used to think I was just inept and pressure myself to change and get better but I'm not just inept, I'm sabotaging myself, with EVERYTHING.

I am so terrified to let people have any form of attachment or connection to me. I don't even know why. I do know it manifests itself in this weird half subconscious way that makes me always act in a way that pushes people away. Its so weird though cus I'm not rude I'm not mean and I make damn sure to not give off the impression that I'm pushing people away, I always just act ina way that makes people think I'm pathetic or overbearing or annoying or something that just makes them lose all interest in me. I hate that I'm like this I feel so weak and out of control.

It sounds strange, and I don't really even know how to describe it. I've been meeting new people though, and I make good first impressions, sometimes people even ask me, hey so you want to hang out sometime? I want to yes, oh I want to start being more social I want friends I want to meet women and have romance I want to be there for people and support them. My conscious mind says yes yes yes I want that. I manage to not act too desperate or needy we make plans to hang out, then once we do, despite my conscious mind saying, yes, I like these people I want to hang out again, I ALWAYS manage to make them not want to hang out with me any more after one or two times of meeting them. A few things like this I'd just attribute it to the natural thing that happens between people that sometimes they just don't connect and they move on, but no, every time, I manage to push people away.

I have a talent for it, and I do it on purpose. About a week ago I picked up a charming attractive young lady hitchiking down from the ski area (not as crazy as it sounds, hitching is pretty common to/from the ski area) we had a fun conversation on the ride down, I wasn't overwhelmed with anxiety, she complimented me and said she thought I was funny, it was really nice. Then, at the end of the drive she gave me directions where to drop her off, which was at a church parking lot commonly used by people going to the ski areas as a park n ride. I asked which car was hers and she said oh I actually live at the house just past the lot, then she said something about how she wasn't worried about me knowing where she lived, I laughed, gave her a wink and said, oh that's good because I was planning on following you anyways. I was charming and not threatening when I did it. In fact I just did it because I thought it was funny, and she laughed and said that's fine with me.

Then when I dropped her off, I went to ask for her number, but when I did, I just made sure to put enough insecurity and fear in my voice to make her lose all interest in me. I saw it happen in a heartbeat. She still gave me her number, its not like she was scared of me, but I saw the attraction disappear in that instant that I acted less confidant. How could I be so suave charming and confidant the whole ride down then kill the attraction in an instant? I know I did it on purpose too, I just know, I've felt for so long that I am socially inept but the truth is I have an incredible amount of social skill, I just use it to keep people away from me. I'm too nice of a guy to push people away by being mean or hurting them so I just make them lose interest. Why do I do this? Why can't I just consciously decide to keep people at a distance? Why couldnt I just ask for her number confidently but then just decide not to call her? Is it because I think thats rude so instead I just make sure she won't reply?

Even today, I called a young woman who I met on the internet a couple years ago and was somewhat close to, we havent talked in a while, kind of had a falling out, she added me back on facebook a couple months ago and we've chatted a few times. Well today I called her with the intention of hopefully establishing some sort of rapport again, but instead I acted in a way similar to that which pushed her away originally. I told myself I was calling to just talk to her and see what happens but I'm thinking about it now and the truth is I got scared cus she flirted with me on facebook and i wanted to make damn sure she kept her distance, so I acted needy and dramatic and weird and well, mission accomplished, I drove her away.

WTF is wrong with me? I 'supposed' to be so much over so many of my issues, and the thing is I AM over many of them. My anxiety has gone WAY down. I first noticed this behavior a few years ago, I talked to a woman thinking she'd reject me but instead she actually wanted to hang out with me so I said some weird things to push her away. At the time I realized my anxiety levels were skyrocketing and I needed to push her away to keep them at a level I could deal with, so it made sense, but the thing is, my anxiety is much lower these days, i can talk to people and not feel anxious, in fact I do, I make good first impressions. As soon as theres any sort of connection being formed I make damn sure they get sickofme though. I display an amazing talent for doing this in a way which is very effective yet is not hurtful or demeaning to the other person, I guess hats something tobe proud of I am a genius at self sabotage. I feel crazy and out of control, this is scaring me and I'm not sure I can ever get over it. I don't knwo whats going on with me.
 
Ya know, I just realized I was actually much much better at socializing when I was 18-23. In some ways worse but I actually allowed myself to meet people and hang out with them without pushing them away. Really don't know whats wrong with me. I'm afraid I'm turning into my borderline personality disorder father.
 
Anyone? My therapist isn't really helping me with this and I feel really out of control and helpless.
 
WTF is wrong with me? I 'supposed' to be so much over so many of my issues, and the thing is I AM over many of them. My anxiety has gone WAY down. I first noticed this behavior a few years ago, I talked to a woman thinking she'd reject me but instead she actually wanted to hang out with me so I said some weird things to push her away. At the time I realized my anxiety levels were skyrocketing and I needed to push her away to keep them at a level I could deal with, so it made sense, but the thing is, my anxiety is much lower these days, i can talk to people and not feel anxious, in fact I do, I make good first impressions. As soon as theres any sort of connection being formed I make damn sure they get sickofme though. I display an amazing talent for doing this in a way which is very effective yet is not hurtful or demeaning to the other person, I guess hats something tobe proud of I am a genius at self sabotage. I feel crazy and out of control, this is scaring me and I'm not sure I can ever get over it. I don't knwo whats going on with me.

I will do my utmost Loner, I was socially stunted... I am still in some ways. But like you share in your last paragraph, I am over many issues. Someone on here recently shared something (I think it was Nicolette) about as immediate issues resolve or become less difficult, it makes the flaws we have more glaring.

I had to teach myself (and am not entirely great at it as can be evidenced on the forum from time to time) how to be a safe person just as much as I had to have safe people in my social circle. I carried some dysfunctional stuff from my family and relationships I had to learn about and try to put into practice. I have said often that one of my all time favorite books is Safe People: How to Find Relationships That Are Good for You and Avoid Those That Aren't by Henry Cloud and John Townsend. (I think I need to dig up that book and give it a reread too)

It is obvious that you have a lot of fear and confidence issues, on a core level you may be pushing people away because either you desire to be close to others but are afraid of intimacy (intimacy doesn't mean sexual necessarily), or you don't have the sense of self worth or confidence enough to bring yourself past the point of some acquaintanceships and maybe how to engage people on a more meaningful level without bringing the dysfunction to the meet up. It wasn't modeled for me, I am still working on how to both be a safe person, and how to engage people on a deeper level in a way that is mutually beneficial. And yeah, I have intimacy issues that still need to be worked out.

And I keep trying. I try to look for opportunities and make little goals or challenges with myself about them. It has taken some work to get me where I am now, it's still not where I want to be but it is better.

See if you can write about the fear feelings and what pops up. Try to journal privately without the self shaming or self critical words about the situation and see what happens. Try to reconnect with one person, and ask candidly what happened, but be in a place where you can listen without defending or react without offending. Some feedback can be helpful to show you where you went wrong (if you went wrong at all) with that person.

Sometimes, it doesn't have as much to do with me as it does what the other person wants/needs/desires/expects. The decision to move past an acquaintanceship and explore a friendship is 50/50.

Someone in AA once told me that 33.3% of everyone I meet aren't going to like me. No matter what I would ever say or do, whatever I had already said or did. 33.3% of everyone I meet are going to like me just fine, come what may. The remaining 33.3% of the people left are neutral, not particularly interested one way or another or not liking but not disliking me either.

It helped me a good deal. I was very hypervigilant at the time, and had a very small amount of self worth. In recovery, I wanted everybody to at least not dislike me. I was pretty worked up about it when groups would be about 12-30 people, and when it was evident someone had a problem with me I took it very hard (like you are doing).

People had to help me learn it because I had to be a people pleaser in my bio family and first marriage. To gain love or acceptance, I had a whole lot of hoops to jump through. I understand now, that I am not everyone's taste. I am not even 66% of people's taste. I did a self study on cultivating a sense of self worth (which I prefer more than self esteem), and I did a confidence course online, and I am more at ease and available to keep my eyes open for a few of the 33%.

I hope something that I posted may be of use to you. I know by your posts that this is very much something you want progress in and that it is important to you.

(((Hugs for you)))
 
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"Try to reconnect with one person, and ask candidly what happened, but be in a place where you can listen without defending or react without offending. Some feedback can be helpful to show you where you went wrong (if you went wrong at all) with that person."

This is incredibly hard to do, and I did it with the people I most cared about one at a time as I could endure it with periods in between so I could manage my feelings and really listen to what they said. I did it with people who loved me.

I took what they told me and I tried to cultivate in myself those things they needed from me as long as it wasn't codependent, crossing a boundary, or self destructive.

My husband needed me to listen more.

My mother needed me to better control my vocal tone because at times I sounded like my father and it triggered her.

My friend Brenda needed me to let her express without interrupting.

I'm still not very good at interrupting, but she knows I am trying. I'm not consistently good at any of those things but they responded more favorably to me because they know I am trying.

Just wanted to expound a bit more on the risk and potential benefits of actually asking someone what happened and where the relationship became strained or broken.

I don't know if this is helpful at all, but I tried. Hope some others come on and give you their take too.
 
Some of what you've said is true but a lot of it is just not relevant to me. Thanks for trying. I have no relationship with my family or anyone for that matter. This isn't so much about not knowing hot to turn acquaintances into friendships this is about subconsciously making sure any new acquaintance I meet gets sick of me and doesn't want to hang out any more at all, and not being able to stop it.

I like to think I don't treat others poorly but I am just a little too loud and talk over people, I try a bit too hard make friends, or am a bit too negative, or come off as a bit needy or desparate, etc. I am not like this all the time, in fact I make good first and even second impressions. I have an amazing ability to be effective at driving people away. I don't act THAT bad, I just seem to be able to choose the exact behavior that will make someone be like nah no thanks. For people that would probably still accept me if I seemed insecure I am a bit overbearing for those who might not mind be being opinionated I come off as needy.

It's really weird to think about. I guess I feel out of control because I don't trust my ability to stop, but it's good that I'm seeing this. For so long I've felt socially inept but I'm not inept at all I am very skilled at getting rid of people in a way that makes it seem like they are leaving me without making enemies out of them or hurting them. They just get sick of me.

There's no one to ask really. I can tell what I do. Every time I know why people got sick of me, because I did it on purpose. Its like a compulsion.
 
I've been thinking about this. I've been freaking out and beating myself up over the fact I am self sabotaging, and how crazy and out of control I am, but I've realized that's the wrong approach. Ok, so what is life telling me? Its telling me I'm pushing myself out of my comfort zone too much. That's why I'm self sabotaging. I learned it as a survival mechanism when I was a child, push everyone away in just the right way they won't hate you or be hurt by you or angry at you, they'll just leave you alone. I've done this my whole life to keep anyone from becoming attached to me in any way. I am absolutely terrified of anyone having any connection to me at all.

So, right now. Well I feel like I'm over so many of my issues and SHOULD be able to make friends and meet women but, it just isn't happening. I just can't make myself. I can see though, that I have all the social skills, all the perception of human nature, and all the likability that I need to to make friends meet people (ok less sure about the last one but still, I guess I can see things about myself people would like). The real truth is the only thing holding me back is my own inability to let go of my fear. That is, its not that I'm broken or stupid or unlikeable. It's just that I'm not comfortable with that yet. For so long I've pushed myself really hard to learn adapt push out of my comfort zone and you know what, I've gone as far as I'm able for now. Something in me is telling me its time to stop and reflect for a while.

So I'm going to honor that and keep people at a distance for now. I think I may put my things in storage and go live out of my car wandering around the desert for a few months, just forget about people and all the things and ideas they have created for a while. I'm honestly scared I'm turning into my borderline personality disorder father but f*ck it. I think even if I never am able to form connections with people this is what I need to do to be happy.
 
The reality is that though we (I was taught the same survival mechanism you were) were conditioned to self protect by not letting people get close, humans are more fulfilled generally by socialization That old saying "No man is an island". Maybe some weekends instead of living in your car for a few months?

I loved the desert. When I get too pressed for the past 8 years I scrimped and saved and bought a small fish camp about an hour or so from my home. I can choose to go there for the day, for the weekend, and use it as a private campsite a few times a year. It is quiet and rural and I am peaceful there. There is no pressure there more than waving back as the other "part timers" drive down the dirt road. It was cold water only for a few years, now I have power too. But I don't have a television, computer, or radio out there. It is a way to decompress. My first lot was about $1800. Now I have 5. My own little piece of solitude.

Before that, I would take my old army tent, a sleeping bag and pack a cooler. I would do a 17 mile overnight canoe trip, or I would make a reservation for a campsite in one of the state park campgrounds. I would always choose the "primitive" sites because there was less likelihood of having to interact that way. It can be done very inexpensively.

Stopping and self reflecting is good. Spending some time squaring up the old coping mechanism (that is now maladaptive because it worked at the time but is now an impediment to the life you want to lead), and "trying on for size" the idea that fear is what is holding you back instead of perceived brokenness or stupidity can be a beneficial thing. For a time. If it's done in a way that minimizes future consequences (like going from a roof over your head to living in your car).

Solid thoughts Loner, except I threw a flag on the living in the car part.
 
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