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Is There Ever A Point Where Suicide Is The Best Option?

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mamachick

MyPTSD Pro
Last night I watched the video on here about young military men who returned and committed suicide, often shortly after having ptsd. I saw their family grieve and how they pleaded with government to take some responsibility. It was very sad to see these young men giving up, giving in, and taking their own life.

If I had cancer, or a friend or relative did, and exhausted all treatment options unsuccessfully, I would not question their choice to stop the pain and commit suicide rather than wait for nature to take them. I would not call them selfish and would not judge them negatively. I believe in assisted suicide in such situations. I think it is very humane. To be able to chose a time and have closure and have things in order, and to be able to say what needs said to their loved ones sounds to me like and end with compassion.

I read many posts on here, some doing better and finding hope, others struggling horribly, and others just surviving. We all suffer ptsd, but our situations are still very unique.

I have survived many things in my life and had always been quite resilient. I may not have always done the right thing or thought straight and healthy, but always got back on track to good health and mental health within a very reasonable period of time.

My therapist says my ptsd is caused by childhood trauma, and while I dont debate that with her as she does make sense, I am not totally convinced of this. I do know that I had symptoms of ptsd following a 6 yr extremely abusive marriage from age 17 to 25. The symptoms worsened a couple of years later. I was treated for co-dependency and had symptoms managed if not eradicated. I worked through childhood issues from a standpoint different than trauma therapy. Mostly CBT therapy, re-learning skills, challenging thinking, etc. My life became very positive and good. I was always a very resilient person that used humor as a defense mechanism. At no time did I ever entertain the idea of suicide. I was able to forgive my mother. I was even able to forgive my ex husband who abused me verbally, physically, and sexually.

In a 2 yr period, my mother passed away, my grandaughter died of SIDS, and my quadropalegic nephew was brutally murdered by a drug addicted intruder. During this time, I was dating a therapist that was a sociopath and I was being stalked. He was also drugging me and raping me repeatedly-unknown to me at the time. He turned out to be the stalker. He was a puppet master. I became a bit hypervigilent. I felt very sad for awhile. I pulled myself up and reported him to the licensing board. He was found guilty and disciplined. I discovered there were many serious complaints about his behavior involving sexual addiction, acting it out with clients, and other devious things. I moved on. Slowly I took my life back. I did not feel helpless. I stood up to him and took action. At no time did I entertain the thought of suicide.

In 2006, I had a bad fall and was unconscious. I have a mild traumatic brain injury. This was the beginning of my life as I knew it changing drastically. The hospital missed a broken rib, which ended up puncturing my lung, and then I was told I had a blood clot in my lung. After further tests, I was told it was a mistake. My health declined. I had financial struggles. My personality was different. I was more impulsive. I made some bad decisions. I suffered depression and anxiety. I got angry. I had nightmares. Several months into this I had fleeting thoughts of suicide. There was lack of treatment. Since I was able to function, walk, talk, care for myself, the things that I experienced were minimized. Nobody seemed to specialize in TBI. I lost assertiveness skills. My attempts to be assertive came across as anger. I guess I lost self awareness.

In 2008, I dated a man that turned out to be controlling. When I did not give in to an unreasonable request and asked him to leave my home, he refused and called the police. The cop had an attitude immediately and sided with the boyfriend who was a former law enforcement and FBI agent. The officer insisted that I was someone else. He brutalized me, sticking a gun in my face, arresting me, injuring my arms using excessive force. He took me to an alley. He verbally assaulted me repeatedly. He was told to bring me to court rather than jail (because I worked with the justice system in the past and others knew I would not do anything illegal-which I did not). He paraded me around with criminals and collegues with my body parts showing. This broke me. My sense of humor is gone. I attempted suicide following this. I am not resilient anymore. I am apathetic, lack motivation, struggle cognitively, am plagued with depression and anxiety. I isolate. There has not been one day since this event that I have not thought or flashbacked or dreamed of the event. There is a constant re-inactment. There is not one day since this event that I have not wanted to die and thought of suicide. I dont know how to laugh anymore. I have pushed my friends and family away. I have no will to live. I have been in counseling ever since. I make my family miserable. I am an empty shell. I am an embarrassment to my family. I lack trust completely. When I am lied to-it is as if a switch is flipped.

I have a lawsuit against the police. Many lawyers have said that it was illegal arrest and excessive force. I think I now live to fight police brutality and for no other reason than to prevent it from happening to other women. I am sure I can win but it has been years in process and will be many more. If I was given 10 million dollars I would still not be happy. Its not about money. I died Dec. 16, 2008. My health has declined. Most outings are to the doctors or for tests or for pain injections. I cant go into a grocery store (where I fell) without xanax. My health is getting worse. I stay in bed most of the time. I only go downstairs to let my dogs out and bring food and soda up. I am on serious meds for pain, anxiety, sleep disorder and depression. Each cause other side effects. It is a vicious circle. I want off the merry go round.

I feel very rational. I dont want to live anymore. Im not emotional about my decision. Im not sad. Im exhausted. My life is fear based. I have hurt the people that I love enough. I have burdened others and caused them worry. There is nothing that I want to do, no place I want to see, nobody I want to know, and nothing to look forward to. I cannot financially support myself. I am hopeless and I know it. I dont have a fight in me. I have been broken.

Are there others that believe that we should have the right to a peaceful death and to chose to not live to just exist without any quality of life. I have compassion for terminally ill patients. I believe that mental illness can be terminal, and while it is not for most with ptsd and I do believe that others can get better, I do not believe that of myself. I also think that it is the combination of TBI and PTSD. Some helplessness began with TBI, but PTSD has broke me.

I am hoping for serious discussion on this topic. I have read much about suicide, and the thought is that nobody would commit suicide if they were not mentally ill or rational. I can agree with the mentally ill, but even mentally ill can be rational.

I welcome any viewpoints on this topic.
 
First, I am grateful for your words and honesty. I am sad for your suffering. If you have learned to live with TBI, then I have confidence that you can get through/manage ptsd, so it won't be such a bother. It does take, being around friends who value you, so you can learn of your great value. It also takes the right professional help-go to professionals who listen well, like you, and who work from where you are at, in a way you like. You may not need to take your life to find peace, and your life is always yours.

Secondly, suicide: no judgment, just my experiences of having been depressed and suicidal and having my brother commit suicide. More often than not, I think suicidal thoughts arise when someone feels unhappy, judged, or trapped. Exploring those feelings helped me create changes, (sometimes used antidepressants) that made the suicidal thoughts decrease. That is how I survived.

Living through my brother's suicide was very traumatic. I do not recommend it , even though I can understand the choice. In severe suffering, when a person wants to experience their end, alone ok, better yet a ceremony with others, helps everyone find closure and build some healing relationships, that can sustain them, afterwards.

As violence can cause ptsd, so can suicide. Most of us, with ptsd, have felt our joyous spirit zapped by traumatic experiences. Suicide's impact, causes a deep trauma in lives of the survivors-they feel the violence of the act, and that they failed, in addition to feeling the deep grief of losing someone, for whom they cared.

So you see, sometimes the feelings of the person who commits suicide, just get passed on to their family and friends.

Always a choice. Thanks for the topic.
 
Brat, the below is a very very brief response which in no way does justice to the complexity of this topic or my thoughts on it, largely because this is a confronting topic for me right now, but one for which I believe I can make some broad observations.

Your right to live, or otherwise, is always yours. Each person has the right to make that choice, and nobody truly has the right to judge another's life, suffering or potential... though inevitably, we all do so to some degree.

Nobody walks in your shoes. Nobody truly knows your suffering. Nobody truly has all of the puzzle pieces that you do in order to make a decision about your ability and desire to continue living. To that end, I respect everyone's right to choose whether to live or die, as with the majority of other personal decisions in life.

Maybe I was wrong, maybe my thoughts on this topic really are that simple. The entire, and very relevant, other side of the coin of course involves what is left behind, but that is an issue separate from your choice to live or die, though of course it will often impact on it.

I do believe that somewhere, everyone has a limit to personal suffering, and that limit is set in a different place for everyone. Most of us never have to learn where it is as we never reach it, and that's a good thing. But some of us do, and that's ok - sad, and perhaps avoidable, but ok.

Maddog
 
Thank you both for your response. I did not realize how lengthy my initial post got and I am sorry. Took much patience to read.

Change-I am so sorry for the loss of your brother. I know so many who have lost someone to suicide and understand the pain and often trauma due to how it was done and the person found. I think that happens because the pain is so severe at the time and the act maybe impulsive. Having tbi does not make ptsd easier to manage, it is the double wammy I guess. I have been through all kinds of emotions with the combo and come full circle. So it does not feel impulsive. SI use to feel like an option to escape and only as a last resort. Somewhere the desire to live is gone. I appreciate your honesty on how it effects survivors and I absolutely do not want that for those I love. There has to be a peaceful non violent and non traumatic way for survivors. I have been seeking some information on books written on the topic and through organizations.

Unfortunately, every step of the way-my insurance has prevented me from getting treatment when it was most likely for recovery from both. I think lack of professional help in the past has led to where I am today.

Maddog, I always respect your posts. They are always very thorough and well thought out. I appreciate that. I agree about the inevitable judgements, rightfully so, as we are judging as humans as we should be.

I think what is left behind is the key that often holds one back from making a conscious well informed decision. Most of us have some loved ones that we do not want to leave suffering as a result of our actions. That prevents choosing taking life away during a calm and rational time. Those left behind are most relevant.

I agree that everyone has a limit. I know that for myself, I do not ever want to get to the irrational place where impulse takes over. That often results in failed attempts which also causes suffering and fear for loved ones. It has been my belief that most people who attempt suicide do not really want to die, they just want the pain to stop. I have been there too. I have come to realize that now, if all the pain stopped I would cease to exist, as I have come to be defined by pain. (if that makes any sense). I dont remember how to live.
 
So you see, sometimes the feelings of the person who commits suicide, just get passed on to their family and friends. .

Great topic. One that needs to be aired.

I see it as relieving them of the burden that we bring upon them. They are stronger than us and will grieve and move on. Have a better life without us tied around their necks. Be allowed to get on with life. We are giving them freedom from us and our illness and the hurt abuse that they suffer at our hands.

I can also see that it is so insurmountable to some of us this insidious illness we have. The ones we leave behind do not understand what it is like for us on a daily basis and that we are doing it for them to end our lives and their suffering of us.

I am sorry but I just cannot get my head around that it would cause them more pain my loved ones if I where to commit suicide.
 
who am i kim-I kind of see it that way too, but all of the people that I know that are survivors have been left injured. But how do you compare how they would feel if that suffering person continued to suffer, often leaving them feeling helpless, burdened , angry, resentful, sad, grieving, frustrated, and so much more.

If one is staying alive for others, are they really doing justice to the others. I know when my mother was so ill I prayed that she would not suffer for so long. It is painful watching someone physically grasping for a breathe. I guess I think of this in the same way at times. What am I putting others through? Just because I am not grasping for a breathe, they have seen me not want to get out of bed, sleep 20 hours, not have an appetite or desire to eat and the thought being nauseating, etc. It must be painful and it is not intended to be.
 
My father in law had cardiac surgery and never left CCU for 3 days, they discovered he had a blood clot and would not recover. The Dr called and told my husband to come in that night and my mother in law. The Dr said he would increase the morophine and he would pass within the hour. That is what happened. Why are we less compassionate, gentle and forgiving of those who have brain illness?
 
I understand some of what you say.

I understand that suicide hurts others. But at what point are we suffering to stay alive only for others? Why should someone live solely for other people? I think this point is very far down the path of suffering, but I think it does in fact exist. Is that fair to me? I fully support the quality of life concept in that its not just life that is precious, but importantly quality of life. (It's also why I don't support the "every child is a wanted child" premise because sadly, they're not, and when they're not, they are at a higher risk for abuse and such, which can lead to a very poor quality of life---I do wish every child was a wanted child, but I digress...)

And then I think well, if other people cared, they'd listen when I cry out for support. Don't give me this namby-pamby BS that I should spare everyone else's feelings by staying alive (and continuing to suffer) when they can't give me five minutes of simple SUPPORT.

It's kind of like I want to smack people who won't show that they care while someone is alive but when they die they'll throw a scene and dramatically weep on the gravestone. (Metaphorically speaking). Show people you care now because there are no guarantees that person will be around forever, let alone 5 minutes from now. And if you don't have the time to care about someone now, don't you dare (pretend to) care when they die. (Fits in with my love is an action belief.)

These are the thoughts that run through my head when I'm suicidal. (And not so suicidal.) Maybe they're not so rational, but I'm not at all suicidal at the moment and I can't see them as irrational.
 
I usually just read and then steer clear of these types of threads, not because I find them particularly shocking or that I cannot relate, but because of my own shame and guilt. Three years ago, on June 30, 2010, I executed a suicide plan. I was stopped because a stranger and family members recognized the signs and called the police. At that point my only option to complete my plan would have meant that I killed myself in front of my children or forced a police officer into shooting me. Not options that I cared to take, but man was I angry that I was not allowed to do what I believed at the time was a perfectly rational solution to my problem.

So fast forward to the present and today I am fighting cancer in the hope that I have at least a few more years to live. I don't respond to these threads because I feel like a hypocrite, because I was so convinced that the only solution was death and now I am fighting death tooth and nail. Oh well, time to get over my own guilt and shame and share why my perspective changed.

One way that I rationalized my suicide was that I could not see being any better nor could I see any benefit in my existence to those I loved. All I could see was the "waste" that had become my life and the hurt that I causing my family. Well, how dare I assume that I know what other people are thinking. I do not walk in their shoes and I do not have the power to "know" their thoughts or feelings. It was more than presumptuous of me to think that I could justify such an act by using what "I thought was best for them.". There is absolutely no validation in that rationale and to think otherwise is basically a lie to yourself and abusive manipulation of a relationship of those we profess to care about or love. Try to explain, after the fact, that "I killed myself to save you further pain." or "I thought you would be better off without me." Try to imagine how they feel and what they would struggle with. Personally I find that vision horrendous and ugly.

Then there is the rationale of not being able to "live like this any more" or "not being able to live with the pain any more". I fully agree with the part of not wanting to live with PTSD symptoms because they can and do make the present unbearable at times. But to make the leap from "not wanting to live with" something to ending your own life is not rational. PTSD is not a death sentence and it is treatable and if anyone wants to argue that it is not, I will say there are making a choice not to get better. PTSD does interfere with a person's ability to make rational decisions at times and that is irrefutable. It can cause people to reach a point where they are suicidal, but at that time a person is NOT rational.

So if a person is in a place where suicide is looking like the best option, get help as you are lying to yourself and everyone else. It is not the best option and in fact it is not an option at all. Find whatever it is that works for you to get yourself stable enough to work through the issues and find the methods that will help you manage the symptoms and live life. No, it isn't the life that you lived before and it may not be the life that you envisioned, but that doesn't mean that it cannot be enjoyable, rewarding, full of meaning and full of love.

"Should of", "could of" and "what if" are all thought processes that distort and limit a person's ability to move forward. No, trauma is not fair and the fallout is horrible, but what we do with the result is within our control. There are choices to be made and they are not easy and require a hell of a lot of hard work. But suicide is not one of those options, and if a person really believes that it is, they are not rational. PTSD is a mental disorder and that is why there is such a high rate of suicide associated with it. Trying to normalize suicide is not rational and an extremely dangerous thought process.

PTSD is not terminal, but suicide is. Ask me what I would give not to be terminal? So, my own guilt and shame be damned. The truth is, life is worth living and I hope that all who are suffering find that little ember of fight and fan it into a big roaring fire and get on with the business of living. Put the energy into what works and not into justifying what doesn't.
 
For me I got to the point where I could justify doing it, even to the point where I had totally justified that everyone around me would be totally better off without me, because I was a massive burden to my family and I was dragging them down to my level. I planned it carefully to make sure there were no loose ends.

But when it got to the final night my son said "I love you mum," and saw my strange reaction, it really woke me up to myself, that no matter how we justify it , someone somewhere will be affected by our actions, whether it is the family we try to push away or the person who has to clean up after us. Today I give thanks that I didn't act, because every day is a new day with the possibility of change, but death is a very permanent solution with no possibilities.

I couldn't live with the thought that I could give someone else PTSD. I have now accepted that death isn't an option for me, but at the time I was totally convinced it was the only answer.
 
Many people on here have SI, and I do think that most of the time the person does not want to die, just needs to know that there is always a way out. Even people who attempt suicide do not want to die most of the time, it is a cry for help. Yes ptsd is a mental disorder, it is a brain disorder. I recall a great seminar I went to where the presenter has multiple sclerorisis. She said that ms is a brain disorder, not different than depression or ptsd. Yet people are stereo typed much diffierently.

intothelight-Im torn on that thought right now. Can someone consider suicide and be rational? Im not certain. I know that some with terminal illness can be rational in making this choice.

I am very sorry for your experience that has caused such great guilt. To want suicide, recover from that thought, and then to have cancer and fight for your life-is almost as if the world is making you prove your desire and love for life. My thoughts and prayers are with you. You did not cause this. I am sorry for the guilt that you are experiencing and you do not deserve to take that on.

Unresolved negative emotions will lower our immune response and result in medical issues. People with unresolved anger are at greater risk for heart illnesses. I am sure that chronic stress has led to my own medical problems.

I cant deny the effects of those left behind. My belief is that we can justify anything we want to. If we look at the court systems and lawyers, they can argue and make a good case for about anything. We as humans can justify anything-have had this discussion with therapist about truth. There are many truths. We dont know what would have happened if we did A instead of B, would it be better or worse, because we cannot take two paths at the same time. There is a belief that if we do what is best for ourselves, it will be best for others. (not meant to be applied to suicide necessarily-but why not). Again, that is just justifying doing something that we want to do-some equate with selfishness. Yet if we do for others at the cost to ourselves-we are unhealthy co dependents and sometimes become martyrs.

Can only speak for myself-but it is not just the ptsd. Maybe I could manage it better with resources which are not available. The ptsd is on top of a traumatic brain injury. There is a broken rib that did not heal properly and cause constrochrodritis? might be wrong word. Cervical herniated disc with stenosis, torn rotator cuff, arthritis, IBS, fibromyalgia, documented sleep disorder (very unusual type that requires amphetimines to wake up), other gastro problems, mitral valve prolapse. Weakness has set in. Pain is constant. Please know, I am not stating this because I think I have it worse than others. I am stating this because PTSD does not exist in a vacuum, or bubble. We all have different resources, responsibilities, supports or lack of, circumstances, troubles or protective factors that exist along with ptsd. I know many have it much worse than I do.

I read so many posts that include thoughts of SI, it is almost normalized among ptsd sufferers, at very least a common thought among us. I am finding the responses tremendously truthful and respectful. It is really helping me understand others core thoughts on the subject.
 
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