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It Was "like" A Cult...but It Wasn't A Cult

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Sideways

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2 recent overlapping threads have opened up a fascinating and confusing issue for me.

My abuse, the best I can explain it to the lay person, is "it was like being in a cult...but with only one other person". I try to avoid saying that, because I was never actually in a cult, so obviously, how the hell would I know what that's "like". But the explanation is simple, clear, and makes easy sense of a complex situation. More importantly, a lot of what cult victims go through, and their healing process - I read about that and sometimes can't help thinking, "Ragdoll, this is denial...it was basically a cult".

So, "I heard...and it felt like I was being sexually abused..." Reminded me of my cousin, very fixed on her right to home birth, but was essentially forced to go to hospital when the birth became complicated. She said "I felt like I was being raped".

No known history of rape. If I were to find out she has been raped in the past, my opinion would change dramatically. But since, to my knowledge, she's never been raped? Made me sooo angry. How dare she?

So the thread on Stockholm Syndrome. People come forward with "my situation was like being captive, but I was never actually kidnapped..." That makes me really uncomfortable. Because to me, the actual 'being kidnapped' is different. Is being locked in your room by your parents like being kidnapped? I doubt it. But then, it's so similar. And if the fallout is the same, and the recovery is the same, why do I have such a thorn in my pas about saying "...so it was basically Stockholm"??

I feel like saying, in my situation, "It was like a cult" is disrespectful. Or do I? Is it actually just denial? Am I actually thinking, "I'm not allowed to say it was like a cult, because it wasn't that bad"?

How important is the strict definition if the symptoms and treatment are the same? Is it disrespectful to people who have actually been in a cult? Or is it my own denial? My way to minimise my experience under the cloak of 'being respectful'?

People seem to have been activated by these threads, so I'm guessing it's not iust me that's starting to question - why does this bother me so much??
 
From someone (me) that was in a non-denialable cult (and whom's therapist advise had Stolholm), I can say, personally, there are SO many cults and so many things that boarders on that cult line, Im not offended if you call it a cult or cult like. Im more offended or upset or whatever for those that trivualize my past. My dad does it, the remainder of my family does it and 5 times, 5, i went into my therapist office questioning over and over again if what i experienced was torture or not. He said yes all 5 times, and then named them all.

I think it may be your own dial that maybe you feel that if you arent right on the mark with what your trauma was that you are watering down others? And i remember when i first met you that you advised you were in a cult, i remember at some point you explained a bit more and at no time did i feel like "OMG, this girl was not really in a cult". Who does that anyway? Cults are so very different. And in my case, yes it was the mother that birthed me and kept me alive to then at 6 start in her lover's cult. So people confuse it with parental abuse and it was just so much different then that.

Anyway, I think you are being too hard on yourself personally. Do what you tell me, cut yourself a break!
 
@lostforgottensoul - yeah, that's the confusion for me. On the one hand, I had to fight hard to finally put myself in the "I was raped" category, which is one of the reasons my cousin's comment made me so angry. So when I flip that around, and do what she was basically doing but changing "raped" for "in a cult", it makes me uncomfortable. And I wonder if I was actually in a cult, would it make me flat out angry? Is it disrespectful? Is it minimising? Is it just incorrect and that misses the whole purpose of explicit "diagnosis" in the first place?
 
And I wonder if I was actually in a cult, would it make me flat out angry? Is it disrespectful? Is it minimising? Is it just incorrect and that misses the whole purpose of explicit "diagnosis" in the first place?

Why does it make you angry or why do you feel uncomfortable?

Its not a "diagnosis" really, its naming (and then coming to terms with that name) of what it was. So if it wasnt an actual cult, then maybe it was cult-like that boarders that line.

As for treatment, for me it depends on how affected you are. It took me years just to say it wants normal, let alone a cult, and a lot longer to come to terms with the reality of what it was. Today i still cant call it "horrible" but i think this happens a lot. Where we dont want to come to terms with what it actually was.
 
I have never been told I grew up in a cult but I have used that term many times in therapy. I grew up in an environment where anyone could sexually abused me and if I disrespected others yes I was locked in my room too. I learned to please and obey-it was expected to satisfy the urges of others. If not I was punished with cigg burns, or locked in rooms or closets.

I agree with @lostforgottensoul -with trauma nothing is truly clear. if you feel your trauma was like a cult then that's what's important.
 
I think I agree with everyone else here. Trauma is so hard to define. I think you can use that label if it makes sense to you.

Similarly, I struggle to call the emotional abuse I endured as a child "abuse." I've had therapists tell me it was. I think it was probably textbook abuse, but it's so impossible to pinpoint that I've spent most of my life denying it. I actually WANTED to be hit as a child because then it would be clear cut. As it stands, it's hard to quantify, this making me struggle to define it.
 
@Ragdoll Circus I have a really hard time being open minded to other peoples ideas of what definitions they like to use for trauma experiences myself. It's oddly not an issue for me here at all, but in my real life, because of the work I'm involved in and also now the dreaded group therapy, I am being very honest when I say I have to control urges to get offended regularly.

What we forget as trauma survivors I think, is that most people don't have much prior knowledge of psychological terms and formal criteria. Most of the time when someone wants to get a point across, and do it with emphasis because they're upset or want you to understand somethings a big deal to them, they go for what they think is simple and dramatic wording. They aren't concerned with semantics.

I'm taking a risk using this possible example, but I should be typing up a report on something right now, so please dont get mad at my laziness.

When your cousin said she felt raped she probably meant she felt violated. Being violated in the private area with strangers around and bright lights made her want to say it with dramatic flair to get her point across. It's not the most mature way to do that, but I doubt she cared about anything other than getting her feelings of violation across.

The debate over Stockholm Syndrome in my opinion shouldnt have really happened. If you want to say you have S.S.
because you had mixed feelings about leaving an abusive ex, and you do it in front of Patty Hearst, then it's offensive.

Claiming that you cant have Stockholm Syndrome if you aren't a victim of a criminal hostage situation is patently false. No one here has to agree with me on that, but I'd want them to read my post and give me a reason why they dont. It better not be because it's not the wiki definition. Because I'll just use my " you cant call conditioned responses Pavlovian without dogs involved then " argument. ( I liked that one lol )

There are limits on what we can extend to other people in the " if you feel like you were victimized then you were " category. I had a guy who went on disability for PTSD because his boss verbally abused him, after 18 months he was cut off and wanted me to tell him how to get his payments back. I wanted to disable him myself.

Many of us have tried very hard to come to terms with what is wrong with us, what caused it and the stigma we had before we were diagnosed because of our misunderstood behavior. Having a diagnosis helps, but often people want to know why we have it and we feel like we have to justify it, and we shouldnt. It's that feeling of needing to justify that leads into debates over semantics.

If you feel like you were in a cult, then that was your experience. You'd probably want to weigh your words about that if you were talking to someone that was a forced child bride in Utah. It doesnt change how you felt, and it is a simple way to let someone else know your emotional experience without telling them your life story.
 
@Ragdoll Circus

I have read one or two things you have written and I can totally see why you would relate to being a cult. At the least it was cult like. I totally agree with lostforgottonsoul that the lines are sometimes a little blurred. I also think there will likely always be someone offended if something doesn't fit absolutely neatly into a mould. I think its the nature of trauma to an extent (and personality). Its intense and we all have so many things to process that its easy for someone to hit on a sore spot.

What your sister said falls into a different category. I think the further the distance between that exact mould and that that falls outside it the more people will take offence. Your experience almost fits that exact mould. Its like saying they are both types of apples. Your sisters is continents away. Apples compared to spores. I am obsessed with not causing more harm to others and it is one of the things that has kept me paralysed. But I am walking away from that a little more now. Even though I can rarely do so for myself my advise would be to do what is healing and helpful for you. You sound like you are unlikely to disregard others feelings. You are not talking about something in a different universe like your sister was. Do what is healing for you. It can be really hard to put words to experiences and feelings without walking on eggshells too much.

I think there are also levels of literal intent when people describe things. It might be that your sister meant it very loosely whereas the thread you mentioned was obviously meant in a totally literal sense. The title didn't accurately convey the contents. These two are not like what you are discussing here for you.

Then we get to invalidation. I think so many of us have severe invalidation wounds.

Lastly, it may not apply, but a lot of internal conflict I have about these things has been more to do with denial and inner defence mechanisms. I'm guessing that what they are. When I try to deal with anything I have horrific internal backlash and undermining of it. Part of my mind is determined to invalidate anything to do with trauma for me. From the outside the cause can look the same but it can feel very different internally. I have realised what is most intense is usually related to this self annihilating tendency. Its hard to think straight when its activated. If there is anyway for words to leave gaps on understanding my brain takes it and uses it against me. That includes others content at times. Hence obsessively researching and researching. For me it has also felt like a type of black and white thinking and self doubt. Self doubt for me has meant I over rely on theory. Just my own experiences here and I don't assume that is what is happening for others. Sharing on the off chance it could be useful.
 
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@theshadowoftheliving - I think you're starting to hit the nail on the head there.

What I went through was "abuse". I don't like seeing it that way, but it was abuse. Fact. Coming to terms with that word, when that's exactly what it was? Very important part of the healing process. I need to be able to accept "I was abused".

But what about when it's not quite...? When it's not quite a cult (infers a 'group', and I think the presence of a group of people, as opposed to one person, is significant to understanding what happened to me), is it still helpful to my healing to identify with something that it feels like, when in fact it wasn't?

I'm seeing this same issue crop up again with different labels and 'syndromes'. Is it helpful to identify with a syndrome, or a particular traumatic situation, when that's not 'factually' what you went through? What if everything else fits, except that factual basis? Maybe it minimises that particular situation for genuine victims of that circumstance, and that's not okay with me if it does.

But is it helpful to my recovery to identify myself with a situation, and consequent syndrome situation, if that's not what it was? Maybe in the same way that accepting it was actually "abuse", telling myself that it was "basically" a "cult" (or kidnapping or rape or, or, or...) is equally unhealthy?
 
@Abstract - idk, validation v's denial??? That's gonna take time for me to figure out. Is the validation always good?

For me, maybe it's helpful (or not) for people to say "yeah, your abuse was cult-like".

But, comparing apples and oranges again because it seems unavoidable (!), I don't think it would have been helpful for me, or my cousin, to respond to her comment with "Yeah, if it felt like rape, then basically you were raped..."??
 
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