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Narcissistic self-loathing

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So, here's a spin of it: when it first got thrown into the mix, it came with my then-treating pdoc actually telling me that I couldn't have consensual intercourse. Thing was that my beliefs about myself were (are) so fixed and skewed that even though he felt that I had sufficiently sound mind for legal capacity in every other sense, he considered that my beliefs about myself rendered me unable to make a sound decision about whether or not I wanted to engage in sex. Which, given I was a solicitor, he knew I would understand and take seriously.

Another bent of it is that once I got sick, I systematically went about removing friends and family from my life "for their own good". In some instances, it was a fairly brutal no-contact thing despite some of my friends trying to persist with supporting me regardless. It took several years of refusing contact for me to eventually break ties with everyone, and I then refused to form any social attachments at all, fundamentally 'for the good of humanity'.

I am now starting to form friendships with a (very) small number of women from my trauma group, but it's hard going and still counter to my gut.

I think probably the shame-element is fairly obvious there. But the at there's also the illogical "specialness" of the self as powerfully evil that seems to be an issue.

I guess like people have suggested, in the absence of any particular treatment modalities, it's a baby-steps kind of issue.
 
OH thank GOD!

I just looked up self loathing narcissism and it's not me.

So fear not, it's possible to have those feelings of being demon spawn without being narcissistic.

I have feelings of being worthless but I don't do the narc thing of trying to cover it up and hurt other people.

The self loathing version still requires other criterion above and beyond self esteem that is in the crapper's crapper. It's a kaleidoscope of symptoms.
 
I don't want to take this thread off topic with anything personal, but just to say thank you @Ragdoll Circus , as it's really helped me for this reason:

Like @scout86 I've never heard of it , and like @EveHarrington looked up the basics and I realize 2 things: I do not relate, as for the most part I've always felt too much love and that has both enabled me to tolerate abuse, and I am horified at hurting or causing pain to others. But I also realize, the descriptors are my sister(s-?)- even reading it causes me much fear and brings up bad memories. If there is anything to say, I took their abuse to heart.

If such is the case, after nearly 50 years and in allignment with the articles I read I can say this about at least one of them (If not more): she cannot feel love and once said so- not for her children, mother or sisters; it is all about appearances- looking superior but also wanting copious amounts of pity; feeling superior is a given, unless impressed; attempts to reach out to her are met by compliments-of-sorts-but-shrouded-in-insults; there is much rage and lying; she (they) hate- a lot (especially my other sister because she had/ has loving relationships); there's 'cloning' or wanting what others/ she has, only because she has expressed she likes it. Not because the other sister does (so ultimately she never enjoys it, she only enjoys the part of having it if the other doesn't, and she tries to destroy or sabotage or destroy what she has.)

I do now understand why, in taking their blame of me to heart, partly why it is 'I' who feels like the one who is 'unlovable', apparently that is common. I also think, because of nearly 5 decades of such interaction, I recognize the deceit or fraud when others present the same, no matter what the proper diagnosis should be. And it makes me feel badly to say so, because it feels like a judgement of others, yet the fear is there. Because it's so familiar. But really, I would describe it at it's core as no empathy, no real desire for the good of another, the end goal is always for the person, no matter the superficial presentation; and it's more like a hunt -at all costs- for what they want than interaction with equals. And very low tolerance or outright hatred for those who don't buy in to it, or don't respond as they wish, met with hatred and really trying to cut the person to their core, if they can get an opportunity to do so.

I've read a lot of your posts @Ragdoll Circus , and JMHO as I do not know what is in your heart, but those posts haven't impressed me as that.
 
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@Junebug - it is worth mentioning that the pdoc who diagnosed me didn't recognise DID as a valid disorder, and so didn't accept that the personality inventory answers I gave were influenced by multiple different parts.

I think that people who know me would probably refuse to accept that I was incapable of empathy, and I certainly like to think that I empathise pretty well with people. But one of my parts, who often fronts for therapists, doesn't empathise. She doesn't have a sense of grandiosity (and doesn't believe that I'm evil), but she is incapable of really forming any attachments, good or bad, to anyone.

I've certainly never had a pdoc tell me that I've got an issue with empathy. And I think it would have come up by now!
 
ETA that is why it feels like judging to me, how do I know the ins-and-outs for another? And I try to have sympathy for that, and empathy in giving the benefit of the doubt it's from wounds.

But I would say, a self-loathing narcisist might 'blame' parts as a cause versus choices, or blame someone else in all interactions, even relatively innocuous ones (JMHExperience). As one article said, an apology is followed by further grave insult, greater still, because the person does not believe they are in the wrong.

I actually confused this with sociopathy, having no conscience/ feeling justified despite harm to others, and no ability to feel love.
 
my self-loathing has narcissistic features.
Are we talking about an internal or external model of this? What I am seeing in the original posting is that this narcissistic thing was not about how RC had narcissistic features when it came to others, but rather when it came to herself. To me, the empathy in this situation is external (in removing people from her life 'for their own good') at the cost of the internal model (RC herself). Which to me, isn't narcissistic at all. It seems more like a form of self sacrifice with empathy for others at the base of it.

I think a ton of us here deal with our 'selves' in this manner. We show kindness to others that we would never dream of showing to our own selves. So maybe what this professional is trying to get across is that this is a regressed toddler-like narcissistic frozen part (if one subscribes to parts) that needs to grow up and realize that our adult friends are capable of making decisions for themselves when it comes to determining if RC is worthy of being loved.

I mean, I thought I had a pretty good self image most of my life, but when my PTSD hit me I too, insisted all of my friends leave me because I was certain that I was this f*cked up evil drama queen who just couldn't get her shit together. Some did and others have held on for a good long decade of fun and games (not).

The thing is though, I don't have a right to tell other adults what to do 'for their sake'. Just like they don't have the right to tell me what to do for my sake. And I think if I had been working with an adult 'part' of me rather than the toddler narcissistic model I would know that and would have left them to make up their own minds.

Perhaps it is as simple as this. This child like, self centred part of you, needs to be taught that adults are capable of thinking for themselves and don't need you to make decisions for them? Just a thought.

The thing is, Ragdoll, I have dealings with a few narcissistic type people and they are nothing like you. Perhaps you are just working with a part that is too young to properly deal with attachments in the adult world. There is a difference between a toddler who feels it is all about them and a true narcissist who has made a conscious decision in life to feed off of and then discard others solely for their own purposes.
 
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this is a regressed toddler-like narcissistic frozen part (if one subscribes to parts) that needs to grow up and realize that our adult friends are capable of making decisions for themselves
Wow! Thank you so much for this explanation!

Because yes, it came up with my pdoc earlier this week when I had a meltdown about the police contacting a guy who I'd been friends with some years ago. I had an immense amount of respect for him, and when it became clear that he was keen on me, I was pretty harsh in pushing him away and shutting him out, because I was panicked that I was going to be completely toxic to him and wanted him to have a happy life with someone who deserved him.

My pdoc's comments were exactly along the lines of what you've just explained, which was: so you believe your evilness is so powerful that it would be toxic to even the very best guys, so he can't even be allowed to make his own choices about his relationship with you? Well, yes:rolleyes: I went to pieces because I was worried that the police contacting him about me would potentially risk poisoning him with my evilness all over again, which I couldn't bear the thought of.

The "I'm pushing you away for your own good" thing is something I've done to at least 4 guys that I've had immense amounts of respect for over the years, and it's really distressing for the guy as well as me.

But you're right, it is childlike in a lot of ways, which is probably why it survives in spite of its irrationality. Truth is this guy lives in the US now, which is a pretty long way for the poison to spread!
 
@shimmerz - no really, just wow! Sometimes things just snal into place.

So then once I'd isolated myself completely, I got into the bdsm scene and hooked up with doms who already had an existing desire to inflict pain & humiliation on their sexual partner. And it wasn't just because it was familiar, it was also because it didn't seem like I could be toxic to someone who actually enjoyed that kind of relationship. I've always had trouble explaining that those kind of guys were "safe from me already".

Massive lightbulb moment here - like, a really massive stadium-sized lightbulb!

ETA: time to work on re-parenting:)
 
Yeah, I think that is the external/internal model again. Because you couldn't feel safe in yourself, you had to hand over the reigns to a Dom. Because the illusion with Dom/sub is that the Dom(me) can take care of themselves.

Totally makes sense Ragdoll. All of this stuff, when we get to see it, all of these adjustments we make, new patterns and behaviours totally make sense on a visceral level. It's all about an attempt to keep safe.
 
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