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Practicing Mindfulness Could Cause Problems For Ptsd Sufferers

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This is my take on mindfulness. Maybe I'm off, but I see mindfulness activities to be in conflict...

"This is my take on mindfulness. Maybe I'm off, but I see mindfulness activities to be in conflict with the ultimate goal of becoming more aware of our environment (internal/external).

I'm a quite hypervigilant person and I'm very aware of my external environment. I notice things that others fail to notice. I pick up on details that are inconsequential to many."

Mindfulness is awareness of this present moment, so how can it be in conflict with the goal of becoming more aware?

Hypervigilance is a set of behaviors that is an example of heightened arousal not mindful awareness.

Mindfulness is a state of calm peaceful awareness of the present moment.

:happy:
 
No it is not about being peaceful in the present moment. It is about being aware of thoughts and those include the bad ones. It is about accepting them. Those thoughts come through.
 
"void just because there are guru's (which I find a really intimidating word) does not mean that so...

A true Guru is a knowledgeable experienced Guide, nothing more. It is a role of guidance, not a person who dominates and controls others.

Perhaps ignore the word 'guru' and replace it with Teacher or Guide.:)
 
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No it is not about being peaceful in the present moment. It is about being aware of thoughts and th...

May I ask if I hurt your feelings or upset you because I criticized the article you posted?

My criticism was not directed at you....only the article.

My teacher is 91 years old, a Buddhist woman. I have studied this topic for 25 years.

When you say, "No it is not about being peaceful in the present moment. ..." I must gently tell you that your understanding of mindfulness is incomplete.

If I have hurt you I am sorry, it was never my intent.

Peace to you.:)
 
Well I am getting my information from trauma aware psychologists, so I think there is a difference of opinion of what mindfulness is in terms of being aware of yourself and your thoughts.

And it is not about hurting at all.
 
I am wondering if it is dependant on the sort of mindset a person has. With regards to how one chooses why they do, as opposed to what they do.

I choose things to do as a form of avoidance, if I keep busy with this, I think less about that.

(Yes I am about to talk about my mother again, Freud would love me, lol.)

She chooses things to do because she wants to do it. It's not avoidance with her.

Maybe this is a factor in mindfulness not being helpful for me? The bad memories become the proverbial elephant in the corner. When mentally trying to remove the distracted thoughts the bad ones come to the forefront.

Maybe this is overwhelming me. Trying to drop the most effective defense mechanism for one that has not been utilised effectively.

I am still willing to imagine that mindfulness works. But maybe due to my current methods of grounding and avoidance the "switch" is too jarring.

If you throw a kid into water, usually they learn to swim. But some get a nose full of water and freak out. That kid will not be able to learn to swim in that way.

Doesn't mean that they can't learn to swim, and enjoy it, but. The old sink or swim, will probably always result in sink. Unless a different method of teaching is employed.

This is what this article has got me thinking. Does this sound reasonable to anyone else?
 
I was feeling a failure because I just can't, do something that was supposed to be so simple, but it isn't.
It is not simple at all. And the people that say that really don't know what they are talking about.

I was coming off medications, I was suicidal, I was extremely depressed, my PTSD was off the charts, I was living in an unsafe place etc etc and I signed up for an 8 week MIndfulness course, and after that I tried to kill myself 10, 15, 20 times? I was interviewed before the course about what was going on for me. I told the Mindfulness teacher what I was going through, I was honest, but he didn't have the skills to understand it was the worst possible thing for me to do.

I had never attempted suicide before doing the 8 weeks MBSR course, despite having suicidal ideation from the ages of 8 through to 43 years old.

Mindfulness is absolutely dangerous for people in certain states but it seems that only psychiatrists with a highly developed understanding of Complex Trauma have a nuanced understanding of that.

The Mindful Way Through Depression urges depressed people not to start Mindfulness when they are in a clinical episode. However, two bit psychologists and people that have done a weekend workshop on Mindfulness are causing a lot of damage to vulnerable people. Some of whom no type of sitting meditation should be ever attempted.

The same with chronic pain - different types of meditations, if any, need to be used.

“Let your thoughts move wherever they please,” of Mindfulness is actually life threatening for someone actively in suicidal ideation or depressive ruminations.

Mark Williams, himself, said at the beginning of the Mindfulness Summit that Mindfulness is not a panacea.

I suspect is is the get rich/get well quick capitalism that is not only not good for the people, but the planet as well. There are not magical cures, there is only a lot of hard work, persistence, dedication, practice, making mistakes and really going hard at it. No quick fixes.

And the whole quick fix thing is tied to not wanting to look at why people suffer from the mental illnesses that they have - what the familial and societal contributions are to a person's situation. If we can pretend there is a quick fix then we can blame the victim for not choosing to get well in 10 easy sessions.

I have talked to some Australian Buddhists at length and they told me that they gently said to people that they were not ready yet for meditation and needed counselling and support, and that some people are never ready to do Mindfulness or Meditation.

Mindfulness for the severely dissociated is not helpful either. It can also be dangerous.

It is an interesting article and I have had discussions about these issues with a few people, and in particular my psychiatrist.

I am one of the ones who really shouldn't have done Mindfulness, and it almost did cost me my life. I then had to break it all down and work out what were the best ways to go, and which were dangerous ways for me to go, to work out my own very specific and particular program. I have struggled with doing it the last two weeks but I have worked out a practice of Mindfulness that works for me and enables me to grow.

I couldn't have managed this without David Burns' "Feeling Good", a very savvy psychiatrist who is trauma aware and a range of other things. I can now do it though, and it gives me glimpses of a world outside of PTSD/trauma world. But it has to be particular depending on the types of trauma you experienced, how long you experienced trauma, if you have developmental trauma, if you have never had a personality outside of being abused as a child, if you have an attachment disorder etc etc.
 
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what I've been told by the psychologists who use mindfulness @Neverthesame is that your thoughts are supposed to be coming forward, that is exactly what mindfulness is supposed to do it is your inner trauma it needs to be processed. That is why a trauma informed therapist is required to help people with complex trauma because these memories and thoughts will come through, you can't just ignore them, that is impossible
 
Some of the article is not quite precise, and in fact is incorrect - saying yoga is out because is not grounding enough. What type of yoga? Yoga taught by whom? Trauma sensitive yoga can be very helpful. The yoga nidra that was given to me by my yoga teacher was created for Vietnam Veterans by a psychiatrist very skilled in that area.

In that way the article becomes as imprecise about Mindfulness etc being bad as some people are about Mindfulness being good.

Alexander technique is a type of mindful movement good for people who really shouldn't engage with their minds. So is Tai Chi etc.

And yes there are some people who shouldn't ever do Mindfulness - and I meet a lot of people who tell me they were told by a teacher not to meditate or do mindfulness in the traditional sense but to do it through their swimming etc. So there is quite a lot of awareness in a lot of groups and organisations.

I spend a lot of time suggesting to people that Mindfulness is not what they need to be doing now. I am honest about what I know, which is not much, but it is a hell of a lot more than some of the people who write silly articles or who should only work with the worried well.

Jon Kabat-Zinn has no trouble with seeing that some people can't do sitting practices - and perhaps that walking awareness is better and he goes on to nuanced levels of how to and when not to etc - a few enthusiastic articles in the media are not the be all for Mindfulness or any other topic for that matter.
 
The article is incorrect when it states "There is currently no professionally accredited training for mindfulness teachers," there are and some of the conditions required within are quite arduous.

Of course it depends which professionally accredited training for Mindfulness teachers that you attend, but some of the teachers, in the programs that I have been researching, have some of the top Western teachers/practitioners teaching in them, or were set up by them.

Australia doesn't seem to have a good training course at this time, though it does have an accredited course. The teacher I studied with came from them, and he is allegedly a psychologist with a Masters Degree, so you would have thought he had much more of an idea, but psychology degrees in Australia aren't of the highest standards.
 
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