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Really stuck between a rock and a hard place

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G

Gito

I'm not too sure whether this even has much to do with PTSD, but because my partner has PTSD, it seems fit to ask for advice. I'll try to keep it as short as I'll fill in the details if any of you need further clarification.

My partner of 2 and a half years is suddenly convinced I lied to her. When it all hit the fan, she showed me the evidence behind her accusation and I can totally understand how she's come to the conclusion that I did lie. According to what she's seen, if the shoe was on the other foot, I would think think she had lied also. However, I did not lie to her and it is all just one big misunderstanding.

Distrust has never been an issue in our relationship previously. She has always told me that she trusts me completely and said that I've never given her any reason to be suspicious of me. It's a long story that I'll get into further if asked, but the situation is just a simple mix of misinformation and circumstance. In a nutshell, I was told one thing (which was the information I relayed on to her at that time, believing it was the legitimate information), but later discovered that the original information I had been told was just a cover story due to the fact that it was my birthday and a few people had organised a huge surprise for me. Obviously no one is going to tell me what my own surprise is. But, unfortunately, the damage had already been done because my partner had already started accusing me before I found out the real situation.

So in the beginning, I was asking her what she was talking about as I knew nothing beyond what I'd told her was happening (the cover story). But when I was told that it was all a cover for my birthday, my initial reaction was serious panic as it all fell into place and I could immediately see exactly why my partner was so upset. I tried explaining it to her and went through everything that happened from day one. But she is so convinced that she thinks what really did happen is just a lie to cover a lie.

It got to a point where it turned into a full-blown argument. Which I know was a stupid thing to do on my behalf. I fuelled the fight and realise now that I made it a whole lot more worse for myself. She was throwing nasty words and I ended up retaliating with my own nasty words out of anger. Yet, later on, I was the one to calm the situation down and I apologised for everything. I apologised for how she feels because I understand what it looks like. I apologised for the nasty things I said because I did not mean them. I apologised for the entire role I played in this whole situation. But I would not apologise to lying to her when I knew in my heart that I didn't.

She isolated for 2 weeks, then came back and told me that she can't say goodbye to me and doesn't want to lose me and although she doesn't believe that I didn't lie to her, she understands she needs to let it go and move on from it in order to keep me in her life. That was a huge sigh of relief as I was at a loss as to what more I could say to her about it.

That was a week and a half ago.

During then and now, she has tried to bring it back up and I have simply told her that I have said everything I can possibly say to her about the situation and that, while I completely understand why she is so upset and hurt, I can't change her opinion. She kept bringing it up and it got to the point where I was just saying that I'm not willing to discuss it with her.

3 nights ago, everything was fine. We were chatting on the phone and she brings it all up again. But she's not only accusing me of lying about my birthday, but has spent the entire week and a half thinking up more incidents to add where she now suspects I lied with things dating way back to the first week that we met, 2 and a half years ago. So we headed straight back in to me explaining not only my birthday, but every other thing she was throwing at me as well and we ended up head-first in another angry argument again. I told her that nothing is going to be sorted out if she continues to twist and distort every little thing to fit in line with the monster that she wants to find in me that simply isn't there. She wouldn't have it. Told me that of course I'd want her to believe me because I'm the one that's lying about everything and that she's not stupid and thinks it's funny that I think I can outsmart her.

She ended up hanging up on me eventually and I haven't heard from her, nor have I contacted her in 3 nights now.

So this is my dilemma... I 100% know for a fact that I did not lie. She is insisting that I did and refuses to believe me. She has isolated, we've had no contact and she's popped up again a few days/weeks later like nothing has happened many times before. I know I should not be comfortable in thinking that she will return eventually, but 100% of the past 2 and a half years she has. And it's really not about her isolating at all.

I am having a really hard time dealing with not only this, but whatever else she can twist and come up with being thrown in my face every time she wants to fight. She said she understands that we need to agree to disagree on this because we'll never see eye to eye with it and she can't see me not in her life anymore and I can't see her not in my life anymore. But I also can't have this hanging over my head when I've done nothing wrong. I just don't know how to handle it anymore and her isolating is giving me the time to think all of this out, but I need some help. I understand that she may never accept that I didn't lie and I can't change her mind. But if the chances are that she is going to contact me again soon, I really need some help on how to deal with this. I don't know what more I can do than what I've already done... besides the arguing. I completely understand that wasn't helpful, but I snapped. Can any of you offer any advice?
 
I wish I knew what could help in this situation, but this is tricky for sure if she just refuses to believe you. I think having this time to process and figure it out is definitely a good thing.

Maybe you could remind her how she has always trusted you and ask her what has changed? Ask her if there is anything that would convince her otherwise?
 
That is a good start that I hadn't considered before. It's just been a never-ending cycle for the past nearly 2 months. We argue our points back and forth, she isolates, there's a time of no contact, then she returns telling me that she needs me in her life and will let it go. I do realise that it's something that will not just instantly disappear overnight and will take time and effort from the both of us before this can ever heal for her. I'm really trying my best to help take the steps we need forward to make it easier for us both to let go, but it's also so hard and confusing for me at the same time as I'm ultimately atoning for a mistake I never made.

I do like the question of asking her if there is anything that would convince her otherwise. And possibly even asking her what I need to do to regain that trust.
 
I think you've made your case, now it's on her to process and decide whether to believe you or not. Please do not attempt to convince her any longer, as you protesting too much could in fact be backfiring...I think if you give her space eventually she'll come around. You can apologize for the way things came across but nothing more since you did nothing wrong. Also, remind her that the truth sounds the same every time. If you were really lying, it would be apparent in the way the story can't evolving.
 
Boundaries...

You did not lie. You will not apologize for lying, because you didn't lie. She can believe you lied all she wants, but it doesn't make it true.

She has to get a grip on that. SHE is blowing things way out of proportion if she knows you didn't know the real story because it was a surprise. Unless you were really out doing blow off a hooker's ass instead of visiting your grandma, then she is blowing things way out of proportion.

Don't let her crazymaking make you think you're really crazy in other words. Her PTSD doesn't give her instant last say on everything just because she's feeling a certain way. If you've apologized for everything you did do, then that's all you can do.

You can't be a slave to her cognitive distortions for the rest of your lives. It is OK to set your boundaries.... "I did not lie to you, I told you what I knew at the time. I did not hide anything from you or purposely mislead you. There was no deciet or maliciousness. That is my last word on the subject. You can chose to believe me or not, but I'm done discussing this. I will not participate in any more discussions about it."

Never mind the fact she ruined your birthday surprise... I bet she didn't apologize for that.
 
You can't be a slave to her cognitive distortions for the rest of your lives.

^^^
I need this on a post it note on my bathroom mirror!

You can only deny something so many times. I have got to the point where if he keeps accusing me of cheating he is going to lose me. If he really thinks that little of me then frankly I'm done with the relationship.
 
This is one of the trickier things for me to wrap my head around - my sufferer agreed that our fall out was a misunderstanding on top of misunderstanding, but because "the damage was done," he can't move past it. Intellectually, he "gets" that I didn't mean to hurt him. Emotionally, he can't get past that I hurt him (he won't own up to his triggers being his, and has not yet gotten to the reality that people don't trigger him, he is triggered because of his illness). Not even asking "What can I do or say that will make you forgive me or be able to move past this, and convince you I did not mean to hurt you?" worked - because the answer was nothing. There was nothing I could do or say to make him get past it - the work is his to do because he was triggered, not because I was bad or purposely hurtful.

Even as someone with my own mental illness, eventually my "emotional" response, comes around to match my "intellectual" response - if I KNOW it, eventually I can FEEL it. And, well, PTSD sometimes takes away that connection - the FEEL isn't there, just distrust.

It's tricky, OP. I think I probably made a mistake in apologizing for my role in my sufferer's triggered response - I still didn't understand what I was dealing with entirely, and I genuinely felt bad that he misunderstood me so completely. I do apologize when someone is hurt because of my actions or words - but I sunk a little too far into his own issues.

So, ditto what Tizega said. Stick to your boundaries, and don't fall into the crazymaking trap of continuing to apologize for HER reactions to a misunderstanding.
 
I think you've made your case, now it's on her to process and decide whether to believe you or not. Please do not attempt to convince her any longer, as you protesting too much could in fact be backfiring...I think if you give her space eventually she'll come around.

That's exactly it. I have said everything I can possibly say to her about it... nothing more and nothing less. That's why it's such a difficult situation as I'm trying to break out of the cycle and move forward when she seems like she's so hell bent on dragging me back into chasing each other's tails. If I try to move us forward, that's when she really amps up the fight and that is the point where I need to shut it all down before it gets to the point of arguing.

The one really good thing about all of this though is that we are very good at giving each other space. If either one of us needs a time out for any reason, we have always respected that and we've never pushed that boundary. I don't hassle her into talking to me if she doesn't want to, and she doesn't hassle me into talking to her if I don't want to. We just simply leave each other alone for a while to de-stress and "come down" on our own. So, whether she realises it or not, this current period of no contact is ultimately helping me sort out my own head and that's exactly what I need. The longer she doesn't contact me, the better my head will be when/if she does. So giving each other space is something I'm not too worried about.

You did not lie. You will not apologize for lying, because you didn't lie. She can believe you lied all she wants, but it doesn't make it true.

Precisely. I've said that to her almost word-for-word for the past 2 months.

SHE is blowing things way out of proportion if she knows you didn't know the real story because it was a surprise. Unless you were really out doing blow off a hooker's ass instead of visiting your grandma, then she is blowing things way out of proportion.

haha, well I can assure you no hookers and blow were involved, but I won't be surprised if that theory crops up along the way! :blackeye:

Nothing sinister happened at all. The surprise was an all-expenses-paid overseas trip that my mother had organised with one of my best friends that lives over there. They'd been organising it since January this year and it was going to be happening in May. My mother told me the cover story about it being her and my Dad going over there on a tour to cover the fact that I'd notice her getting travel stuff organised. 3 weeks before "they" were due to leave (end of March), the story changed... my Dad suddenly couldn't go because of work and I was taking his place and I had 3 weeks to pack. So what I'd told my partner was that it was my parents going, then my Dad couldn't go and then all of a sudden it was just my mother and I... just like I thought had happened at the time. I didn't find out that it was all just an elaborate cover story until I got over there and was told what was really going on (that it had all been planned since January and was never about my Dad). I just thought my mother and I were going on a holiday that was intended to be for her and my Dad when we set off on the plane.

Long story short, my partner felt something didn't sound right about what I'd told her, logged in to Facebook, scrolled around and saw stuff that my Mum had posted about how excited she is to be going overseas with me; not my father. The dates that Mum had written those posts were dated from February and I'd told my partner that things had changed and I was the one going in late March. However, the privacy setting had been customised so I couldn't view those posts written by my mother... I still can't see them. But everyone else can. Everyone was in on the surprise but me (and my partner so it seems). My partner doesn't believe it and thinks I knew I was the one going right from the start (January), that I had planned the entire thing with my mother, created a story to tell her about my Dad going, that this whole explanation above is a lie to cover that lie and that I'm a liar.

That's where I can see where she's coming from. It really does appear to look like I have lied once you piece it all together. I totally understand how it appears, but it's exactly what happened.

I've told her to speak to my mother about it and she'll tell her herself, but my partner says I'll probably pre-warn my mother and tell her what to say. I told her to contact my friend overseas and ask her, but I get the same thing. She thinks I paid for the tickets myself back in January, I showed her my bank account transactions for the entire month of January. That theory changed to now believing that Mum probably paid for the flights on her credit card, but I probably gave her the cash for my flight so nothing will show up on my bank statement anyway. She doesn't believe it was an all-expenses-paid trip, so I showed her my bank account statement for the entire month of May to prove no money was spent here nor overseas. That theory changed and now I probably saved up and used nothing but cash while I was over there and "nothing you can show me will prove anything. I know you lied."... and then comes all these other things that was probably happening way back 2 and a half years ago until today.

It's just spiralling with one thing after another and I hate that damn word :banghead:

You can't be a slave to her cognitive distortions for the rest of your lives. It is OK to set your boundaries.... "I did not lie to you, I told you what I knew at the time. I did not hide anything from you or purposely mislead you. There was no deciet or maliciousness. That is my last word on the subject. You can chose to believe me or not, but I'm done discussing this. I will not participate in any more discussions about it."

Never mind the fact she ruined your birthday surprise... I bet she didn't apologize for that.

I also think that is the best advice. I cannot be a slave to her cognitive distortions for the rest of my life. She kind of did ruin my birthday surprise because when I should've been all surprised and happy, I was too busy being confused and panicked. This went on for the entire month I was away. But given the fact that I couldn't really do much about it, I put it all at the back of my mind and didn't let it ruin my trip for the most part. In the meantime, I'm putting on the happy face for a month as I'm getting sent pictures from her of gifts I've given her that have been smashed to pieces all over the floor and daily antagonising texts to try to get me to respond that were getting angrier and nastier because I wasn't responding. But, no, I didn't get any apology for any of it. I knew once I was home again, she'd get in contact (it took her 2 days) and I hoped she'd calmed down enough to talk it out. We did that, but it wasn't long before she blew up again and disappeared because I'm sticking to my guns and not owning up to what she believes happened.

It's tricky, OP. I think I probably made a mistake in apologizing for my role in my sufferer's triggered response - I still didn't understand what I was dealing with entirely, and I genuinely felt bad that he misunderstood me so completely. I do apologize when someone is hurt because of my actions or words - but I sunk a little too far into his own issues.

So, ditto what Tizega said. Stick to your boundaries, and don't fall into the crazymaking trap of continuing to apologize for HER reactions to a misunderstanding.

Absolutely. I apologised for the words that I spoke to her out of anger (which she doesn't believe I didn't mean because she read a quote in google that says to always believe what someone says when they're angry because it's the truth). I apologised that everything that happened made her feel hurt, upset and angry. I always apologise for my own actions every time I know I've stepped out of line. But, yeah, I need to learn to just shut it down before it all gets to that point. While I want her to be able to be open with me and express how she feels about things, I can't have her switch off her ears to me and verbally beat me black and blue either.

Thank you everyone. I'm still having a really good think about everything and I really am going to have to start getting tough on her about my boundaries, I think. It will be hard, but I just can't keep letting her beat me around about this anymore. All of your feedback and advice has helped immensely and I really do appreciate it. :hug:
 
"Tizega" here again. Ok... she is acting nuts. She's jealous because you went on a trip with your mom? And she seems to be reaching for any conspiracy theory out there to justify her actions. This is definitely a "her" issue and not a "you" issue.

Honestly, this needs nipped in the bud or she'll keep it rolling for a long time. Don't keep apologizing for the things going on in her head. She needs to own them, not you.

Setting boundaries is vital to supporters in a PTSD relationship. You cannot let your partner's disorder to steamroll you.

A boundary is not about controlling her behavior, it's about setting your limit. You will not tolerate X, and you mean it. You're not telling her "you cannot keep talking to me about this." You're saying "if you choose to talk about this, I will not participate in this discussion. I will remove myself from the situation until you settle down." Then you have to consistently enforce that boundary. Mean what you say, and say what you mean, then she has to deal with the consequences of her behavior. Is she talks about it, you'll remove yourself from the discussion every time.
 
I asked her that very same question...

"Are you upset because I went overseas with my mother?"....
No, I was happy for you and I told you that you should go because we need to spend as much quality time with our parents while we still can.

"Are you upset because my mother didn't ask you to come?"....
No, I wouldn't have gone even if she did ask. But you asked me to come when you said you found out you were going, probably knowing I would say no. And you probably looked up everything before you asked me and knew that it'd take 3 weeks for me to get a passport anyway... which is pretty f*** coincidental.

"So did it upset you that I went overseas specifically and left you here?"...
That's a stupid question. I was happy that you got to go away on a holiday and I don't care what you do anyway. It freed me to do whatever I wanted without being obligated to you for an entire month! Why would that upset me??

"Well can you tell me what the real issue is because I need to know what you're flipping out about right now"
You know what the real f*** issue is!! You know you f*** lied to me! You probably knew right from the beginning that your Dad wasn't going. That was just a story to cover your ass about and that's what I don't understand you felt you had to lie to me about that because I don't care!

"Ok, well, obviously you do care and I don't know what much else I can say to you about what happened other than what I told you. I didn't lie to you. I told you what was happening as I was finding out myself. You can believe whatever you want, but I'm not going to discuss it anymore with you. Can we drop this and move on from it now?"
Oh, of course you'd LOVE it if I let it go and pushed it aside because you're the one that's f*** wrong and you're scared because I can see through your s***!

From that point on, it has pretty much gone from being a "discussion" about the vacation issue to a series of trivial incidents that have happened over the past 2 and a half years that I've done during our relationship that she hasn't liked and/or have triggered her. She gets nasty, says a load of hurtful things, hangs up and then I don't hear from her for two weeks maximum. She contacts me and tells me how much she misses me, doesn't want to lose me and she needs to drop it in order to move on with me in her life etc and of course my heart melts all over again and then we're back to her pushing it and making it clear in a passive aggressive way that she's still holding it over my head until she wants to go all out with it again. This is how it's been for the past 2 months.

And she seems to be reaching for any conspiracy theory out there to justify her actions. This is definitely a "her" issue and not a "you" issue.

I have said to her countless times, "I just can't win with you, can I?" and she says, "No, you probably can't". That pretty much sums it up. There's always something to explain something else until it's reduced all the way down to something that can never be possibly proven. At that point, she's finally justified and totally convinced that she's right and I'm wrong and she'll remember it for next time we argue. When she starts bringing out the "probably" is when there's no point talking to her because it just spirals from there and she really has taught me to hate that word.

Honestly, this needs nipped in the bud or she'll keep it rolling for a long time. Don't keep apologizing for the things going on in her head. She needs to own them, not you.

Setting boundaries is vital to supporters in a PTSD relationship. You cannot let your partner's disorder to steamroll you.

I agree. I can't be steamrolled by any of this any longer and I will be placing a firm boundary down here before it happens again for my own state of mind and mental health. I should have done it sooner, but I got totally caught up with trying to explain things and then did the most stupidest thing myself by loosing my cool and fuelling the fire :facepalm:

Mean what you say, and say what you mean, then she has to deal with the consequences of her behavior. Is she talks about it, you'll remove yourself from the discussion every time.

That's exactly what I needed to hear. Thank you :)
 
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