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News Sign This Petition - Ban Rape Pornography

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I'm with rightkindofme.

I think it is extremely, extremely important that we maintain the distinction between images that are art/imaginary/fantasy/illusion and images that are documentation of an actual crime, in which the makers and even the most distant users are accomplices to that offense. This is, to my thinking, why child pornography should be illegal - because viewing it is enabling it.

But I feel very strongly that we should not give the state the power to legislate our fantasy lives. The world is full of product and political advertisements and films and tv shows that I find extremely offensive to my personal sensibilities and that I believe have the potential to negatively affect the development of my (future) children. But it will never be my place to decide what other consenting adults can do together with their own bodies, or how they present and distribute documentation of that activity to other consenting adults.
 
Yes, but I was not equating simulated rape with murder or theft. I was saying that just because 'it' will still be done / committed / made available despite measures to curb it, is not sufficient argument against not instituting measures. I could have used any example, such as signing a confidentiality agreement, or ...


Err, so if I understand you correctly you think that any and every activity that can be done is equally open to being banned? Because that seems to be what you are advocating. Murder and theft are illegal because there are victims. Actual rape is illegal because there is a victim. Grown ups play acting rape on film really should be in a different category.

Have you seen the world-wide results of attempts at prohibition of various kinds? Outlawing victim-less activities only hurts people it doesn't help anyone. I believe it was Benjamin Franklin who said (roughly) that those would would give up liberty for safety deserve neither.

I think that focusing on rape pornography as an "issue" makes it much more difficult to actually fight rape. If there is no distinction made between play-acting and actually doing it to a non-consenting person then it is much easier to actually rape. As long as we make it clear that consent makes it different and consent is what makes it ok then we have a clear and arbitrary way of telling the difference between a crime and not a crime. When you try to prevent people from doing what they believe is right for them and what they are ok with happening to their body then you have people rebel.

I don't think that the act being offensive to other people is why something should or shouldn't be legal. If that is the dividing line then I am in a lot of trouble. I think that consent is what matters.
 
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If there is no distinction made between play-acting and actually doing it to a non-consenting person then it is much easier to actually rape.

a) I keep rereading this and can't work out in what sense it would be easier, why, or what the evidence could be for this statement.

b) I don't understand why you're talking about making a distinction between play-acting and actually doing it to a non-consenting person. I'm assuming that of course you've read the text that accompanies the petition, otherwise how could you be reasonably arguing against something without even knowing what it says? So I'm wondering how you got clarity that consent was given from:

These images are explicitly defining themselves as being rape, non-consensual or forced sex... The websites hosting the content included words like brutal rape, real rape, savage rape, only rape, in their web address... There is no grey area here. The viewers of these sites are encouraged to believe these images are real, that they are watching ‘real rape’."​
[DLMURL]https://www.change.org/petitions/close-the-rape-pornography-loophole?utm_campaign=mailto_link&utm_medium=email&utm_source=share_petition[/DLMURL]

You seem to be disagreeing with Rape Crisis South London's research findings. Is this based on having seen the same research data yourself in order to draw your own conclusions?
 
Signed. Thanks, agree with everything Hashi says. Fantasies like that sort of abhorrent violence leads to reality. Rapists fantasize before they then find a victim and act on it. It normalises it, makes it look like women want this and these images include children. Of course it will go underground, paedophilia is underground does that mean we should agree with paedophiles being allowed to access this stuff on the internet? Anything that normalises violence is wrong IMHO.
 
Rightkindofme,
The part I originally understood you as saying was that you support the free choice of adults to choose their own fantasy life. I understand that perspective and think there is some justification in it when it is about depicting fantasy. What I did not read properly (too dissociated these days to read anything reliably it seems) was this:
violent pornography, has actually been linked with lower incidences of sexual assault.
I don't agree with this part of what you said.

I do think there is a probably a fair amount of real rapes on the internet other than those posed as real too.

And as stated before I have a lot of strong feelings about children happening upon this stuff which happens all the time and is a reality. I think at the least there needs to be of an outcry as it would hopefully make people more vigilant and children more protected. It is not the cause of my feelings about this as they pre-date it but my friends 7 year old was recently in this situation which was found out when there was an incident with the neighbours similar aged child. These things are happening more and more often. Apparently the average age that children first view porn is 11.

why child pornography should be illegal - because viewing it is enabling it.
I hope there are many many reasons more than this that child pornography should be illegal and abhorred. For one that it re victimises the victim each and every time it is viewed.

To add a cherry on top apparently PTSD in porn stars is extremely high.

Not getting more involved in the discussion now as despite having other things to say I can do without it! :rolleyes: Bye.
 
I hope there are many many reasons more than this that child pornography should be illegal and abhorred. For one that it re victimises the victim each and every time it is viewed.

Absolutely. There is no shortage of reasons why child pornography should be illegal. I meant only to counter the argument that there was any such thing as passively viewing it without committing a crime. To be a consumer is to be an accomplice, IMHO.
 
I do think there is a probably a fair amount of real rapes on the internet other than those posed as real too.

Thank you for saying this. I've been thinking of all the drugged, coerced and directly forced "consensual" participants in rape pornography too.

It just occurred to me that maybe rightkindofme meant that the way forward was to enforce some sort of labelling that this stuff isn't real. Maybe not, but if that was the point then I don't think widely promoting concepts of "play-acting rape" or "consensual rape" would have any good outcome.

Also, this isn't about policing people's thoughts, fantasies or private, legal activities. It's about policing material that's available to people, which is a different thing.

I wish I hadn't read this discussion and I really do need to get away from it and the forum now, but it's been going round in my head. Like Abstract, I could have done without it.
 
I looked at the text of the petition again and it made me want to clarify myself. The kind of content being described is abhorrent and it might even have a negative social impact. My objection is only to the creation of laws which infringe on civil liberties and artistic expression. I've never seen any social good come from censorship and, in order to defend the right to free speech for *everyone*, I personally believe it means defending even the rights of people who are making videos like these.
 
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