• 💖 [Donate To Keep MyPTSD Online] 💖 Every contribution, no matter how small, fuels our mission and helps us continue to provide peer-to-peer services. Your generosity keeps us independent and available freely to the world. MyPTSD closes if we can't reach our annual goal.

Tape Recorded Conversation, Thoughts?

Status
Not open for further replies.

Fadeaway

MyPTSD Pro
I recorded a conversation with my husband tonight.

Before I make any other statements, I am stuck in this relationship due to financial dependence as well s not haveing transportation and difficulty obtaining my birthcertifiate to get an ID which I need to pretty much everything. Also, I do not want to leave at this point. My husband has many positive qualities I adore. However, there are some serious issues.

We went to six weeks of counseling in march and early april. His insurance will not pay for more, so I need to investigate wether medicare will pay for couples therapy and my own at the same time. However, I do not feel that I got the opertunity to address the issues. I am not looking to address the above issues in this thread. Only what is below.



So what I need to do is is adapt to my situation and change how I respond.

Off tape, I was attempting to be assertive. My hasband said I was talking to him like a child. I told him that was not my intentions that i was trying to be assertive. He said being assertive was agressive. So I went and got a tape recorder and asked him again

(This is not an exact word for word transcript )

Me~ What do you feel assertive is?

Him~ When Germany invaded Poland that was being assertive.

Conversation ensued I told him what I though being assertive was and I told him I want him to be more assertive because I struggle with his passive agressive behavior.

Him~ Fine, then I am going to buy <object that my ex was very passionate about above all else>

Me~ ok as long you don't buy <an item that can be used with the above item that my ex used to inflict pain on me>

Him~ I can't get something I want because your ex had one, I can't drink because your ex did (*I would not have gotten together with my husband if he drank, more below) I can't get pie because you don't like pie.

Me~Those are the 3 three things I have set any limits on because they are hurtful to me. You know that I am allergic to wheat. You have a car you can go and buy pie on your way to work, I just can not risk being exposed to it.

Him~ Well I can't risk being exposed to your tobbacco.

Me~ (Repeated the terms of a previous comprimise about him not putting pressure on my due to needing internal motivation to quit. And if he could go 3 days with out making a big fuss about it, I would reduce the number and after a week I would switch to vaping, however he makes a huge theatric display every single time i some about how I stink and he can't breathe and pouts when I ask him to run me to the store to get some as I am 100% dependent on him driving me)

Him~ Well then I need internal motivation to quit drinking, I'll quit drinking when you quit smoking.

Me~ I have a set boundry since the day we got together about being with someone who drinks.

Him~ Boundries are nothing more than putting someone else in a cage.


*he has only drank 3 times since we have been together. The first two times he got super weird and telling me that i was the reincarnation of a girl he never had the guts to express his love for in highschool that died his sophmore year about 4 months before I was born (yes we have that many years age difference) The 3rd time I was determined to prove to me that Bill Cosby was innocent and wouldn't let it go, I left and came back many times and he wouldn't stop so I called the police.

*I quit smoking in the early stages of our relationship during the "in love high" phase for him for about 3 years. It was about 1 week or so after he propsed and I was feeling very positive about life which made quiting easier. I started again last fall as a coping mechinism. I am not defending it, but I don't feel it is the same.

So the whol epoint of this is that I need to change how I repond to him. I just don't know how.
 
I feel sad that you're bending yourself like a pretzel in order to make things work in a relationship that is quite harmful to your healing.
 
I am not trying to bend myself in a pretzel. I see it as a much different scenario than when I was with my ex and tried to change myself to please him.

I am not doing that. I am trying to change myself for me this time. So I can be stronger, not get caught up in his crazy making, be manipulated or contribute to his behavior. I want to change myself in a way that his use of passive aggressive behavior is no longer beneficial to him. I need to figure out how not to contribute to or enable the passive aggressiveness.

That means changing how I react instead of kneejerk reactions. Reducing what I ask him for so that it can not be used against me and so on and so on.
 
That means changing how I react instead of kneejerk reactions.
That definitely fits with the "the only thing I can change is myself" theory.

I'm glad he has some great qualities. What are they?
I need to figure out how not to contribute to or enable the passive aggressiveness.
I think people use "passive aggressive" because it works. And it might be the only thing that works, for some people and some situations. It could be that it's been his experience that he's not going to get what he wants by just asking, and that expressing anger more directly causes problems that being passive aggressive doesn't cause. (There's a lot of stuff online to explain how "passive aggressive" works. I imagine you've read a bunch of it already.)
Me~ What do you feel assertive is?

Him~ When Germany invaded Poland that was being assertive.
Ummmmmmm......... That might be a part of the problem and maybe it's a place to start. Germany wasn't actually being assertive, it was being aggressive and those are two different things. (Has your husband ever considered therapy all on his own?) So, if he confuses "aggressive" with "assertive", maybe that explains some of the "passive aggressive". Since passive aggressive can be thought of as sort of a politically correct version of aggressive?

Maybe there's a way the two of you can sort out a working definition of "assertive" for your relationship. What it is, what it's purpose is, how and when it's used, etc. What do YOU think "assertive"looks/sounds like? Could you give us an example of a conversation where you're trying to be assertive and he responds with passive aggressive?

On the smoking/drinking topic, they aren't the same thing to YOU. It could be they appear to be the same thing to him because he doesn't have your background.
And if he could go 3 days with out making a big fuss about it, I would reduce the number and after a week I would switch to vaping,
Would it work to make that an actual agreement between the two of you, and then try it? To make it work, I think the two of you would have to stick to the rules. Define "making a big fuss" going in, define what "reduce the number" means, set specific start and stop dates, don't leave either of you any wiggle room, make the parameters 100% clear before hand and no changing the rules for the duration.

Smoking might not be the best place to start. I know it's a difficult addiction to kick and you might not be able to keep your promise, even if he could. Maybe there's another topic you (as a couple) have problems with that you could practice working as a team to solve.
 
That bit of dialogue sounds like some stuff me and my mister went through. Twisting word definitions to intentionally bend attempts at communication and parsing words/sparring in a round about way about what was going on with the relationship.... resentments leaking out in weird ways because my mister was frustrated, depressed, and fed up to a large degree... and so was I. Add to that the communication breakdown and unmet wants & needs on both sides... well it was tough to navigate and work through.

For us, my mister felt the relationship was lopsided and was angry, bitter and depressed. It was lopsided and I too had to come to a conclusion that I needed to find ways to bring it more into balance. My smoking tobacco is still a resentment for my spouse I haven't yet conquered... but the crux of it for me was endeavoring to "be" the change I wanted in the relationship... and it was not easy.

6 weeks of counseling isn't very much, it's a shame what insurance will cover. For us we tried marital counseling various times... but what ended up working and being more assistive (since we are both faith based) was faith based counseling and joint study about biblical roles of husband and wife, grounded in the fact that God sanctifies marriage... learning about godly character traits and doing self examination for where we both came up short as well as reconnecting with what the fact that we still loved each other and what character traits about each other we esteemed.

I had to learn to curb my verbal reactivity and deal with low frustration tolerance, I had to develop tools to reign in the disrespectful way I was responding to my husband and we both made the decision to elevate our union over either of our individual wants/needs/desires. We recommitted to the bond.

We did a lot of work on communication styles, and on loving styles... I'm less demonstrative but love/care/nurture with food and good meals for instance... my mister does little "actions" that demonstrate his care (loads the coffee pot at night so I don't have to do it in the morning or runs a tub as he's finishing his shower). When we began to acknowledge the little loving things that we were doing for each other... we both began to come back from either end of the spectrum of conflict/dispute/resentments and meet in the middle.

A lot of what we learned together has stuck. But the first thing for me, was making a decision to "be" or to "walk" the change I wanted to actualize in our marriage.

Don't know if this will help you but I think you're wise to "figure out how not to contribute to or enable the passive aggressiveness. That means changing how I react instead of kneejerk reactions." It is a behavior and like any behavior can be improved with effort... patience, practice, persistence, perseverance, and prayer (if you're faith based/optional).
 
I think that what you're trying to achieve with your husband is really great. From what I read, you're putting a whole stack of effort into making this work, despite a huge amount of resistance from him. And whilst I definitely agree that assertiveness is a skill that is really helpful, I think that there seems to be a bigger issue of "Communication" at large going on. Assertiveness and passive aggression are both parts of healthy/unhealthy communication.

Can I offer some reflection? This isn't meant as criticism, because frankly I think it's amazing you can tolerate this situation and continue to work on improving it. Sometimes we get too close to the action to be able to see different perspectives, and that's all this is...

First - the tape recorder. I can understand that if he's constantly changing his story, it would be helpful to be able to reflect that back to him. But from what you've written, you pulled it out when things were already heated. I don't think that's going to assist good will. I'm also wondering (just a thought), is that not just a little bit passive aggressive on your part? And if I was mid-argument and someone pulled out a tape recorder, I might give some dumb answers like his Germany comment as well, because it could be seen as fairly threatening...

Second: I'm a smoker. I'm trying to quit currently so I can have heaps of money to smother my new puppy with, and it's a bitch. But I've also been a non-smoker, and I've done a bit of reading and...his comment about the drinking v's smoking, "I'll quit when you do"...even as a smoker who relies on smoking for my anxiety (counter-productive by the by, even though it feels necessary in the moment and brings short term relief), I can actually see his point there. I know that your boundary has been long term, and is for different reasons: but he's allowed to put down boundaries of his own, and living with a smoker when you're a non-smoker actually can get pretty unpleasant. Not to mention that it wouldn't take long before your health (mental and physical actually benefitted) and, like you said, you do rely on him to get you to the store for smokes,so he's actually enabling an addiction that is unpleasant for him, and killing you...Like I said, I'm a smoker, I'm in the 50% that metabolise it in a way that makes it near impossible to quit, and my anxiety is going apesh!t with not having smokes. But maybe that argument of his isn't so completely unfair...

I just want to say again, I really do think you're amazing. The way you're fighting for peace at home, despite the walls he's putting in your way - that's so awesome. Just wanted to offer a bit of feedback on what you wrote that I thought might be helpful to keep you going in the direction of harmony at home, because I totally support that.
 
@Ragdoll Circus Alot of what you said makes sense, but I think for me the point was that he doesn't drink. He has only drank 3 times in the 4+ years we have been married. I am not sure if I made this clear last night, but he was saying he was going to take up drinking because I smoke. He wasn't saying he was going to drink because he wants to drink, but that he was going to start drinking because I smoke.

Also he didn't know I was recording, but he kept saying "I wish this was being recorded" The thing about the Germany statement is that i can't have a single conversation with him without at least 20 of those types of statements being made.

When we are driving he never memorises how to get to places we have bene a dozen times. If I don't tell him to turn when we need too, he gets mad and says, "well why didn't you tell me to turn?" If I tell him to turn he says, "Yeah, I'll just run the car next to us over." Or he will say "Sure, I'll just drives us into this pole." He complains that I am a back seat driver but I get very scared because he tailgates people and never uses his blinker, and I always try to ask very nicely. He says that my asking him to use his blinker makes it harder for him to do it. and yes I am aware that is what I say with smoking.
 
I'm so sorry. It sounds a lot like he's picking fights with you for the sake of it. It sounds pretty childish on his part. Is this the kind of situation where you could take a short break from each other? Let his little-boy wounded ego recover for a while? Is that even possible in your situation?

I wish there was more that could be done on the birth certificate front. You need a bit of room to move that doesn't have to rely on him.

V nasty environment to he living in. I really do think you're coping amazingly well.
 
I am so frustrated. I never know how he is going to interpret my words.

The conversation start as a result of the fact that I belive that if his self worth improves the passive agressive behaviors will be reduced.

I started off by telling him what I am doing to work on myself and my self worth so he didn't feel threatned that I was making my concerns about his self worth to be a judgment of him. That was until I realise he had no clue what I was talking about when I used the words self worth. He insisted self worth was other peoples perception of you and and your worth based on what your cultures decides your worth is. :banghead::banghead::banghead:

So we got that cleared up and near the end, I said I want you to work on your self worth. His response was that i was ordering him to change. So we got onto another conversation obout interpritation.
Here is how I see it, and please correct me if I am wrong.

Saying
~I want you to do something =I am expressing my desire that you do something. I am not saying you have to, nor am I asking for a commitmnet, I am just letteing you know that it is something I hope you would do.
~Would you do something = I am asking for ethier a rejection of my request or a comminmnet to my request.
~Do somthing = this is an order.

I just wish I could communicate with him
 
Sounds Fade, like what me and my mister was going through. Maybe the core issue is that what you are identifying as an issue, he does not. He just sees it as a "problem" you're having with him. My own husband had to understand through mediated counseling that I wasn't judging or being critical of "HIM" but I was having difficulty with his behavior. It just wasn't effective when it only came from me one on one with my spouse. He was depressed, angry, resentful and had a whole bunch of repressed stuff about our relationship... until we could work through that and restore/refresh our communication skills together... it just wasn't happening.

I wish you could communicate with him too... you are though right in there trying.
 
Maybe you could crack the lid by being willing to try to work on something he needs/wants you to improve in lieu of you telling him what you are doing already?
I also thought about information overload... in very short order my misters ears would go deaf and his brain would just shut down.
 
Just casting a vote here, not taking sides. In my version of reality, when someone says they want me to do something, they are asking me to do it. If they say they wish I'd do something, they are also asking me to do it. In both cases, they expect me to comply. If they tell me to do something, same thing, but with a bossier tone.

But, thinking about it, I was raised where passive aggressive was the order of the day.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top