desiderata310
MyPTSD Pro
I started writing this as a trauma diary entry and realized as I started writing and looking at things that this was a much bigger picture. It's something that I think a lot of us struggle with on a number of levels and for a number of reasons. I am doing something I do rarely and posting something rather personal so that this conversation can be had by a broader group.
I want to be clear and careful about this as I post: I DO NOT WANT THIS to be seen as or deal with any sort of rape shaming in this post. THAT is not what this is.
-I also do not want this to veer off into (like the second video does) a post attacking the feminist agenda 'rape culture' or even something that the LGBTQ community takes offense against. Those kinds of attacking posts have no place here.
-I PERSONALLY, the OP, am coming at this as female, cys-gender, heterosexual, she/her/hers, etc etc etc. you can assume that I am allowing in the conversation for the other person to be male, female, any shade of skin you like, etc.
-Contribute from where you stand.
-Contribute with the perspective of an individual NOT from the broad perspective of society.
-It also stands to reason that this is NSFW. Don't click on these videos at work and get yourself fired and then come screaming at me. You've been warned.
Tea Consent
This question. The question of consent. The question complicity comes up again and again for me.
How much was I complicit in what happened? Was it actually just rough sex or something else altogether?
I don't know where the line is.
We can talk about 'tea and consent' all f*cking day long and it makes perfect sense. But what happens when you put this all in the marriage bed? Suddenly the lines get blurry and grey.
If you say that consent is black and white as what they make it, then I've been raped by even the kids' dad. I said no plenty. I said it emphatically. I pushed back and I was held down so that he could get his and I would get angry and be laughed at while this happened till I quit struggling. I've also simply 'given in' because it was just easier, honestly than dealing with the BS of a horny and grumpy husband.
I don't know that I can accept that all of that can be lumped together as rape or even non-consenting. That makes things so much worse for me mentally. It means I've never had anything approaching a normal relationship. EVER. But ...WAS IT?
Tea and consent only seems works in the dating world. Once you're sharing a house, a last name, a bed. All bets are off, right? AT some point it becomes 'taking one for the team,' wifely duties if you REALLY must go there, or just honestly, trying to avoid arguments. It's pleasing your mate. RIGHT? WRONG?
I have a low libido. Fact. We probably would have never had sex more than a handful of times if it had been left up to me to initiate. There was a lot that went into that (being tired, being afraid of getting pregnant, being stressed, just being turned off) So there's a lot of shame that went into decisions to 'give in' as well.
Sex really IS complicated.
So where IS the line? What IS NORMAL?
I REALLY want to ask if my THERAPIST ever pressured his ex into having sex she didn't want to have and if so what does that mean? When does making romantic advances become NOT OK? When does it become coercion and when is that ok? What do OTHER PEOPLE experience in bed?
Let's be VERY CLEAR: I'm not talking about being in a situation where you have regrets.
PEOPLE MAKE REGRETTABLE SEXUAL DECISIONS ALL THE TIME.
Regretting an encounter? Yeah I've got those. Those I can recognize and deal with. Waking up with a wicked hangover, sleeping next to someone that I look at and go "oh god what did I do?"
is different from waking up naked in a strange place and not remembering anything and finding yourself saying "oh god how did I get here and what the f*ck happened?" and even THAT is fraught with issues if you're talking about being so drunk that you barely remember things. It's still possible to be that drunk and give consent and realize that it was SUCH a huge mistake the next day.
Alcohol and drugs makes things very complicated indeed.
I've seen this question pop up TONS on here. Regretting having sex with someone IS NOT the same.
PERSONALLY....
I wrote in my other diary about things that happened one specific night.
I know that if I had simply consented things would have worked out entirely differently. REFUSING caused a cascade effect of things that resulted in a very ugly night.
In this instance, we were on a romantic getaway (presumably to help save a dying marriage). My then husband made advances that I declined. It turned into an argument. Chances are that if I had consented that not only would that argument not have happened but we would have had a very different weekend. I would not be sitting here, years later, questioning what happened in the moments and hours later and the rest of that weekend and trying to suss out my culpability in all of it.
I'm trying to sort through a very particular set of instances but the questions are broad enough to be discussed more openly.
Where IS the line?
It seems to move. It's honestly NOT as simple as asking if someone wants a cuppa.
I also watched THIS:
TL;DR - 3D Genitals Don't Understand Consent
I get WHAT this guy is driving at and honestly it helps some because he starts talking about 'social escalation'. And this is where I think there are problems and breakdowns of communication both in the marriage bed and in dating relationships alike. And it's messy and complicated and becomes he said/she said.
In the marriage bed (or dedicated romantic couple)the established relationship (in my mind) already puts the couple at a heightened place of social escalation. Tea and consent would argue that this is not true. But the same can be said of other encounters at times.
Right? Or am I coming at this from a skewed perspective of someone who's never been in a healthy relationship?
I want to be clear and careful about this as I post: I DO NOT WANT THIS to be seen as or deal with any sort of rape shaming in this post. THAT is not what this is.
-I also do not want this to veer off into (like the second video does) a post attacking the feminist agenda 'rape culture' or even something that the LGBTQ community takes offense against. Those kinds of attacking posts have no place here.
-I PERSONALLY, the OP, am coming at this as female, cys-gender, heterosexual, she/her/hers, etc etc etc. you can assume that I am allowing in the conversation for the other person to be male, female, any shade of skin you like, etc.
-Contribute from where you stand.
-Contribute with the perspective of an individual NOT from the broad perspective of society.
-It also stands to reason that this is NSFW. Don't click on these videos at work and get yourself fired and then come screaming at me. You've been warned.
Tea Consent
This question. The question of consent. The question complicity comes up again and again for me.
How much was I complicit in what happened? Was it actually just rough sex or something else altogether?
I don't know where the line is.
We can talk about 'tea and consent' all f*cking day long and it makes perfect sense. But what happens when you put this all in the marriage bed? Suddenly the lines get blurry and grey.
If you say that consent is black and white as what they make it, then I've been raped by even the kids' dad. I said no plenty. I said it emphatically. I pushed back and I was held down so that he could get his and I would get angry and be laughed at while this happened till I quit struggling. I've also simply 'given in' because it was just easier, honestly than dealing with the BS of a horny and grumpy husband.
I don't know that I can accept that all of that can be lumped together as rape or even non-consenting. That makes things so much worse for me mentally. It means I've never had anything approaching a normal relationship. EVER. But ...WAS IT?
Tea and consent only seems works in the dating world. Once you're sharing a house, a last name, a bed. All bets are off, right? AT some point it becomes 'taking one for the team,' wifely duties if you REALLY must go there, or just honestly, trying to avoid arguments. It's pleasing your mate. RIGHT? WRONG?
I have a low libido. Fact. We probably would have never had sex more than a handful of times if it had been left up to me to initiate. There was a lot that went into that (being tired, being afraid of getting pregnant, being stressed, just being turned off) So there's a lot of shame that went into decisions to 'give in' as well.
Sex really IS complicated.
So where IS the line? What IS NORMAL?
I REALLY want to ask if my THERAPIST ever pressured his ex into having sex she didn't want to have and if so what does that mean? When does making romantic advances become NOT OK? When does it become coercion and when is that ok? What do OTHER PEOPLE experience in bed?
Let's be VERY CLEAR: I'm not talking about being in a situation where you have regrets.
PEOPLE MAKE REGRETTABLE SEXUAL DECISIONS ALL THE TIME.
Regretting an encounter? Yeah I've got those. Those I can recognize and deal with. Waking up with a wicked hangover, sleeping next to someone that I look at and go "oh god what did I do?"
is different from waking up naked in a strange place and not remembering anything and finding yourself saying "oh god how did I get here and what the f*ck happened?" and even THAT is fraught with issues if you're talking about being so drunk that you barely remember things. It's still possible to be that drunk and give consent and realize that it was SUCH a huge mistake the next day.
Alcohol and drugs makes things very complicated indeed.
I've seen this question pop up TONS on here. Regretting having sex with someone IS NOT the same.
PERSONALLY....
I wrote in my other diary about things that happened one specific night.
I know that if I had simply consented things would have worked out entirely differently. REFUSING caused a cascade effect of things that resulted in a very ugly night.
In this instance, we were on a romantic getaway (presumably to help save a dying marriage). My then husband made advances that I declined. It turned into an argument. Chances are that if I had consented that not only would that argument not have happened but we would have had a very different weekend. I would not be sitting here, years later, questioning what happened in the moments and hours later and the rest of that weekend and trying to suss out my culpability in all of it.
I'm trying to sort through a very particular set of instances but the questions are broad enough to be discussed more openly.
Where IS the line?
It seems to move. It's honestly NOT as simple as asking if someone wants a cuppa.
I also watched THIS:
TL;DR - 3D Genitals Don't Understand Consent
I get WHAT this guy is driving at and honestly it helps some because he starts talking about 'social escalation'. And this is where I think there are problems and breakdowns of communication both in the marriage bed and in dating relationships alike. And it's messy and complicated and becomes he said/she said.
In the marriage bed (or dedicated romantic couple)the established relationship (in my mind) already puts the couple at a heightened place of social escalation. Tea and consent would argue that this is not true. But the same can be said of other encounters at times.
Right? Or am I coming at this from a skewed perspective of someone who's never been in a healthy relationship?