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BPD The link between ptsd and bpd

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Hi all,

I have a new therapist who is going to completely re-diagnose me. I'm grateful to hopefully be receiving my true diagnosis' while finally putting the false ones to rest (i.e. bipolar disorder, etc). Oh, and I just wanted to add that I have been Dx with PTSD by two psychiatrists previously, so the PTSD Dx is not going to be new....I'm mainly looking to get rid of the false Dx.

I've been doing some research into borderline personality disorder because I was mis-diagnosed with it in the past based on my self-injury. I never accepted the diagnosis because it just didn't fit with my situation.

However, I did find on a number of websites that PTSD and BPD are often co-morbid. I did a search here on this website, and couldn't find much on the topic. On these other websites, one figure stated that 75% of those with PTSD also have BPD, and 67% of those with BPD also have PTSD.

Stop me if I'm wrong, but it seems insane to diagnose so many people with both when the disorders are so different...Well, they have many of the same symptoms at first glance, however, what's going on underneath is different. At least that's my take on it.

What are everyone else's opinions?
 
I too was misdiagnosed by the SSD doc with BPD years ago.

I read a book on it after that about a woman who sought treatment. I read everything I could about it. Apparently it is a personality disorder where people are indeed suffering from emotional turmoil stemming many times from abuse.......but the traits manifest themselves as a somewhat manipulative personality (someone trying to manipulate to get the needed love and attention) and they can be hot cold......one minute your their best friend, the next they hate you.

After working with my therapist for 4 years........she practically immediately told me I do not have BPD (BTW most therapists can't stand working with people who have BPD because they are deemed 'difficult' and time consuming).........but I do have chronic complex PTSD.........with BPD traits.

In other words, when I'm triggered or stress is occuring..........I can be very hot/cold.........I fired my therapist many times, accused her, etc........

I believe this has to do with how our trust was destroyed at a very early age. Of course we are going to be angry, rageful, hurting, triggered, etc......the symptoms of PTSD.......but we are also, at times, going to be hot/cold and manipulative when we are at our most needy.

So, I finally got it one day when I was sort of raging on her, she bluntly said to me: "Terri, you have chronic PTSD stemming from multiple traumas with Borderline traits.........but you are not Borderline.......you are acting like it in this moment, but you are not Borderline. You have PTSD."

I finally 'got' it and now I realize when my 'BPD traits' are taking hold........So yes, she is right that PTSD and BPD are co-morbid..........but, in general, I'm a nice loyal non-manipulative person.........but put triggers around me.......and I appear BPD.

Just knowing this helped me to control those moments when I can cut people out of my life quicker than a hot butter knife simply for making a statement that I completely took wrong...........well, after the horrendous abuse I've suffered at the hands of a female hater/male chauvinast........who wouldn't display these BPD traits?

So........I'm not BPD. Sounds like you aren't either, but at times, you may display those traits, unstable relationships, etc. But they stem from the trauma and treatment is much different.
This is the understanding I came to. Hope it helps.
 
My feelings....I have PTSD, and that's all I want to know about. I don't go looking for anymore Dx either. The PTSD is quite enough thank you!!!!!

I work for a child psychiatrist, and I think it was last year, she told me that she *felt* I may have BPD..... Personally, I don't think I do. I was abused, molested as a child, then gang raped in my teens while I was drunk. I don't remember pre PTSD. I have read up on it, and while some of the symptoms do overlap, I don't feel that I have the behavior patterns that people with BPD do.

I just think it was presumptuous of her to DX me, for 2 reasons. #1) She is a child psychiatrist, I am an adult. 2) I work for her, and wasn't looking for a Dx.
 
I agree She Cat........not very professional behavior. Better keep good boundaries with her.......my suggestion. But I'm sure you do.
 
ScaredOfLonely said:
Stop me if I'm wrong, but it seems insane to diagnose so many people with both when the disorders are so different...Well, they have many of the same symptoms at first glance, however, what's going on underneath is different. At least that's my take on it.
Many physicians stuck with the co-morbid assessment until about five years ago, where it came into question due to the conflicts between them. Many where diagnosed one or the other, then physicians went with both, now they are moving back to one again unless the symptoms of Bi-Polar are present before trauma, as Bi-Polar does not require abnormal trauma as a disposition.

You hit it on the head with the above... it is being moved away from due to similarities. Mental health is a huge guess at the best of times... let alone making it worse.

Bi-Polar is a mood disorder, which is categorised to NOS, Bipolar I or Bipolar II with some further classification breakdowns under each. You can view them @ http://www.behavenet.com/capsules/disorders/bip1dis.htm & http://www.behavenet.com/capsules/disorders/bip2dis.htm. It throws in manic episodes and mixed, depression, etc.

Now... lets see... if you look at PTSD, hmmmmm.... PTSD seems to encompassess all these things, manic depression and moods, phycotic flipouts and more... why? Because it is the more serious and these symptoms come from the trauma and its not just your personality or brain doing these things for any other reason. Trauma is the magic word... often missed by physicians to prescribe more medication, thus more profit for them.
 
Sorry for any confusion, Anthony, I was referring to Borderline Personality Disorder, not Bipolar Disorder....I just mentioned Bipolar as one of the Dx I am trying to get rid of. I know Borderline Personality Disorder is called different things around the world, depending on where you live, and the acronyms get confusing (BP vs. BPD)
 
Judith Herman's excellent book, Trauma and Recovery, delves into the PTSD/borderline situation. She argues that chronic trauma causes symptoms that have been labelled borderline in many instances, and she instead characterizes them as complex trauma (i.e., changes to the personality). From what I know, 'borderline' is often a term with many negative connotations about manipulative and rageful behavior, so she tried to reconceptualize it in light of a trauma history. Many have followed suit.
 
The diagnosis of BPD is a very common one- it is estimated that nearly two thirds of people in psyc wards have this diagnosis. Certainly this supports what I have seen in my numerous inpatient stays. All too commonly it is a label given to those in mental distress who self harm or make a cry for help in other ways. This is often mistaken purely as childish 'attention seeking', thus people with this label unfortunately don't receive the best possible help and attitude towards their illness. As pointed out above, it is also frequently given as a diagnosis to any people who self harm, regardless of their circumstances. I too was mis-diagnosed with BPD when I dared to argue with a psychiatrist a few years ago. It seems as though anyone who 'causes trouble' gets labelled with BPD. Luckily, my BPD diagnosis was immediately overturned by my next psychiatrist and changed back to bipolar.

Bipolar and PTSD do share many symptoms, but are very different illnesses. The prognosis is much better for PTSD- the statistics and research show that PTSD is a lot more common than bipolar (8 times more common), the hospitalisation rates are much lower for PTSD than bipolar, as is the case with suicide rates. Most people DO recover from PTSD eventually (usually after a long hard struggle), but one is stuck with bipolar for life, and it is generally considered by the mental health professionals as one of the most serious and severe illnesses, alongside schizophrenia. PTSD does encompass many of these syptoms to some degree, but for most (not all) people with these symptoms, they would not be at the same level of severity as a person diagnosed with bipolar/schizophrenia, as evidenced by levels of prescribed medications, hospital admission rates, incapacity measures etc. So keep fighting, PTSD is potentially beatable, unlike other mental illnesses at the really severe end of the scale. The research and the stats back this up.

If I could get rid of one of my illnesses, it would be the bipolar. I know that eventually I will overcome the PTSD, even though I have been fighting it for many years and probably will do for many more. The bipolar will be with me forever, with very little light at the end of the tunnel.

Best wishes to all,
KB
 
I'm rather new to the education part of ptsd, and was wondering if there isn't any better of a job that can be done than just guessing as so many shrinks evidently do.

Isn't there any undeniable physical aspects that can confirm any of the "guess work" that's being done?

Just curious.
 
The only thing I can think of would be a PET scan of the brain, or an MRI or something along those lines.

The results should show a significant decrease in the size of the hypocampus and other areas of the the brain. I'm not sure off the top of my head, but I'm sure research on the web will show the consistent results of 'damage' to the brain and amygdala from trauma.
 
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