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Using advice to punish myself even more

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mylunareclipse

MyPTSD Pro
I have a weird problem that is causing me a lot of distress, particularly in therapy.

I am very self critical in general and because of what happened in my life in the last few years on the job as well as my family, I believe that I am truly a burden and a bad person. I didn't used to always feel this way. The last few years at work I was literally psychologically abused, called names, put down, given extra work, yelled at, and especially called a mean bad person as well as sensitive. I ended up having a mental breakdown, which started my recovery in a way because I then seeked therapy. Now I know that my work situation is not the main issue why I have been depressed since I was 11. When I first seeked therapy I saw someone for two sessions only and when I tried to explain my work situation she said: oh you cannot handle criticism?. And because of all this other stuff she said in two sessions i.e. People in war don't get depressed, I have seen hundreds like you that's why I know what medicine to prescribe five min after seeing you etc. I decided not to go back.

I started with the current therapist I have seen for two years now. But needless to say my trust in therapist was shattered and I don't think I have been able to regain it back.

Anyhow despite lack of trust we have been able to do some good work to a certain extent with my therapist. The problem I have however is that when I describe things in my life with my parents or my co workers she tried to help me I guess by making comments such as: you have black and white thinking, you are rigid in your thinking, you have emotional reactivity, you punish yourself etc.

I think she tries to help me with pointing out these patterns. But all I hear is you re bad, you're bad. Your family and coworkers were right you are just a sensitive and bad person. I then use all of these suggestions from therapy to torture myself during the week and sob thinking about what a bad person I am and how I have been a burden in everyone's life. And if I didn't have these faulty patterns then maybe I would have been loved and maybe people would have liked me. I tried to talk to my therapist about this but I don't think we reached a conclusion about how to help me.

I just feel really helpless. I feel like a monster. And instead of starting to feel better I end up feeling worse. Anyone else deals with this or has any advice?
 
In my opinion, it sounds like she's being emotionally abusive to you. Instead of trying to understand how you think and why you think the way you do, she's putting you down for how you feel and how you perceive things. She needs to understand why etc...That can be quite damaging how she's treating you. In my opinion, find a new counselor who is willing to listen and understand. Trust is absolutely vital and the most important aspect of a counselor client relationship.
 
First of all, I'm so sorry you're going through this. Love to you!!!

Secondly, yes, I believe she's just trying to make you aware of how your thinking is causing your distress but you think she is criticizing you, is that right?

Everyone has cognitive distortions. One thing my therapist tries to help me with is seeing that these things I am striving to overcome, everyone deals with them, too. That it is not something that can be perfected or should be. Merely made aware in order to gauge where you want to go from there.

So thoughts are just thoughts and beliefs are just thoughts we've had for a long time. This "I'm bad" stuff you have... it's just a thought. It doesn't make it true. You're as worthy as anyone else, whether you believe it or not. I would show your therapist this post and see where you can go from here. How you can change up your thoughts about or ease up a bit on the mind-reading (easier said than done, I know).

Do you meditate at all? Meditation is great for noticing thoughts and not getting attached to them. If you're interested there's a great app called Calm.

I wish you luck. Stay the course. Also thinking you can't trust anyone is also just a thought. You can choose to believe it or not. Which one serves you best?
 
Thank you for your responses.

I don't think she is trying to put me down in the sense that I have gotten better and I think she seems overall like a nice person so don't know that she would do that.

It does feel like she is criticizing me, or better that she is giving me ammunition to criticize myself. I understand the point that these bad thoughts I have about myself are just thoughts. But we never discuss that. She doesn't really say these are just thoughts. You are not a bad person. You are worthy of love and care and these thoughts in your head are wrong. I am not saying that she doesn't think them but this conversation doesn't happen. I am also awry of receding any love or kindness. I just feel so terrible. I don't mean to be such a terrible person. It just gets to the point where therapy is hurting me rather than helping me. Like using these experiences as an example of why I don't deserve to be alive :(((

I think what I compare it to is i.e. If you were assaulted and someone said don't you see there pattern of how you put yourself in dangerous situations? I guess that would help, but would also hurt if you took it that it means that the assault was your fault then.
 
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The thing about therapy that is really hard for me is that you are under a microscope. Your life, how you think, how you feel, your decisions... not only is your therapist peeking at the Petri dish of all that is you but YOU look at yourself, too! It's horrifying sometimes, lol! Some little example for you: I have a tendency to twist words. I was better for a long time but there is some transference stuff with my T and all my stuff comes up at times. And she said something about how she saw a particular situation and then asked me to say what I was gonna say anyway but because of what she said, I took such offense. And I said I won't now because you said x,y and z. And she was like "hold on a second. Look at what you just did. I didn't say that at all." and that was beyond uncomfortable... because while I could see how I did that, how I was hurting my own feelings and hindering my own therapy and derailing something I really wanted to talk about, this was ALL in my head. And to sit in that realization and discomfort and proceed to talk about what I wanted to say anyway, omg so hard. I've never been more embarrassed and uncomfortable and anxious than in that little room. And I LOVE it. Tell her you want to talk about these thoughts. Tell her exactly what you want. It's hard, yes. My T will not guess at what I need to work on. She will occasionally bring stuff up but it is entirely up to me to talk about what I want to talk about. It really makes me challenge the belief that "people are only interested in something if they ask about it, otherwise they don't want to know". Something else that has really helped me is the Life Coach School podcast. Soooooo much good stuff in there! We have to be in charge of our own healing. And that means using every resource we can. I hope you are able to discuss this all with her!!

I also think she isn't giving you ammunition, but you're choosing to see it that way. How else can you look at it in a way that will serve you? It's up to you to find a way of thinking about something that empowers you rather than goes back to self-sabotage. And also, go easy on yourself. These thoughts get ingrained and are really hard to change. But you have to start somewhere. And it DOES get easier.
 
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I don't know I feel really hopeless. Reading stuff like it's in your head for instance sends me into a sobbing hopeless place. I was told this so many times as things were happening and while you say it might be true now, I feel that accepting that it's true now it means that it was true then. When people have told you time after time that it's in your head, things didn't really happen, I don't know how to accept that I'm insane. I don't mean to be like this, I just don't think I'm in a place where I can get out of this. I feel like closing in myself even more as that's what I must deserve. I know I'm going in circles. All I am trying to say is that I am not in a place that I can logically get out of this. Maybe what's missing is safety and trust in a relationship, especially in therapy. :(

Thanks for your help. Maybe I am just not ready for this kind of work. Maybe need to step back and like you say be easy on myself. I don't think you can heal this kind of thing by thinking.
 
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Oh I didn't mean it like "it's all in your head"! That was what MY experience was/is. I create my own reality sometimes rather than really seeing it. Your thoughts and what happened to you and your perspective is sooooo completely valid! But we can choose how we want to look at things. Seeing yourself as damaged is a choice you're making. And that is NOT to blame you. You have very good reasons you have chosen to think the way you do. Maybe as a kid when it all got downloaded into your mind it saved you to just assume you were bad. That way, you were never surprised or had to feel that hurt again. It worked out better for you to feel low all the time so no one could put you there. I did that, too. But now you are older and you get to be the one that reparents you. You get to look inside your brain and pick out all the things that aren't working for you and begin again. It's daunting af but SUCH a worthwhile journey. I can tell you're in a tough place right now. Is there anything you can do today to feel better? Any activities that you enjoy that you can focus on that will get you out of this funk for a bit? Then maybe you can look at all this again with fresh eyes. It really is up to you and that's a GOOD thing. Not to use it for blaming yourself but to use it to CHANGE yourself.

If thinking is the problem, changing your thinking is the solution. Thoughts cause all our feelings which cause our actions which in turn cause our results. But you have to be able to believe your thoughts. Listen to that podcast. What do you have to lose?
 
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I don't think she is criticising you or giving you ammunition to give yourself a hard time (if there is ammo in it I think it is that you are choosing on some level - maybe not a conscious level) to take it and use it in that way, probably because it is easier for you to use it against yourself in that way rather than to let compassion in - and I understand that position very much!)

I think she is actually trying to do the opposite and point out that you are giving yourself a hard time when you don't deserve it.

My therapist has strongly encouraged me (pretty much begged me at times!) right from the start to practise more self-compassion. It's something I really struggle with - though I am getting better at showing myself more acceptance and kindness, instead of going to my default setting of self-criticism. It has taken me a long, long time to make any real progress with this though and I think I still have a long way to go!

Have you ever tried using affirmations? I haven't but have heard that they can be an incredibly helpful way of practising speaking to yourself more positively and with more kindness. And of focusing your attention of positive aspects of yourself.

I can't believe I'm going to ask this because it always annoys the hell out of my when my therapist asks me this, but...! What do you feel you need from your therapist? For instance, do you need her to explicitly affirm some of the things you mention in post #4 - that you're not a bad person, that you're worthy of love and care etc? If so, could you talk to her about that? I think she does express to you that your self-critical thoughts (e.g. I am a bad person) are wrong - I think that is what she is doing when she points out your cognitive distortions (black and white thinking etc) and when she says you are punishing yourself. But maybe you need to hear more overt compassion from her? In which case, I would encourage you to express that to her.

I wonder if you are a very similar to me with this stuff - you may not be so apologies if I am projecting, but I think I hear a bit of this in your posts... I am very self-critical - self-compassion is incredibly had for me. It is much easier (and way more familiar!) for me to be harsh with myself, even though that doesn't serve me very well and doesn't feel very good, than to show myself kindness. With other people, I can feel and show great compassion. But not to myself. And with other people showing me compassion...it is a double edged sword. On the one hand, I think there is a part of me that really craves it. With my therapist, for instance, there is a part of me that really wants to sit in her room listening to her saying kind, caring, soothing things to me. At the same time, there is something very...repellant about that idea to me. I can't handle receiving compliments and I find it very, very difficult to let any compassion and kindness in. I will make a joke of it, dismiss it, get defensive or say something mean so that we fall out of relationship and so that they stop saying whatever nice things they are saying. So, I long for it yet look to avoid it or push it away when I get it. And that can feel confusing. And, ultimately, if I keep pushing it away and not letting it in, I just lose.

Anyway...I've gone off on a tangent, I think.

If you feel able to bring any of this up with your therapist though, I think there could be some really valuable work in this for you.

Good luck!
 
Wow thank you for your time and responding to me. It's such a difference to read from you exactly what goes on in my head. The experience in itself her I am not the only one makes a huge difference.

I went for a jog to try to take care of myself. But when I was done my head was playing it's all in your head it's all in your head you deserved it and sent me in hyperventilating anxiety attack bleh.

I know that you were talking about your experience UnicornSightings and honestly I think it's mine as well. I do think that I am probably seeing my t as a dangerous person even though she is not. But somehow the part of me that has gone through pain doesn't want to hear about being in her head. She wants validation. Somehow I need to seperate what was true then and what is true now.

Barefoot, you are absolutely right your situation completely resonates with me. I need love and compassion but completely cringe if someone shows it to me. If my therapist says something nice i will dismiss it or even worse literally zone out her words and not remember them. I have realized that I have this huge problem of accepting love and compassion. It seems dangerous. Yet at the same time I crave it.

So I have been talking to my therapist about all this lately. About how I need more overt compassion etc, but we are stuck cause she says she shows it to me and she cannot me any warmer than this because that's not her style. Obviously she is trying to help me, and yes I do take and use those words to hurt myself I am not saying that she is the one doing it. However, I have noticed that it becomes almost dangerous for me as during the week I will feel even worse.

I understand that I can only be the one that helps me in the end, but somehow I feel that whatever is going on in therapy is not particularly working for me and I hope we can fix it.
 
How do you feel about the idea of changing therapists or at least speaking to a couple of others to see if there are any you click with? I'm never one to launch into "get a new therapist" but if you've raised this with her and there is a significant gap between what you feel you need from her (more warm/compassion) and what her style/personality enables you to give, perhaps it would be worth meeting a couple of others and seeing if they can offer this and be a better relational fit for you?

What do you think?
 
That's where we got at few weeks ago Barefoot. I started calling some other therapists to see at least if there was someone else I can better relate to. She says that she does encourage me and is nice and kind to me but I just don't remember. Which is probably true. Like we discussed I cannot easily accept kindness. So it leaves me into this weird place, where I do like her but something is not working at this point. Thank you
 
I do relate and I understand the internal conflict and the frustration. My therapist and I have just kept chipping away at the work and building our relationship ave made progress but am still very much a work in progress with a long way to go.

Although I find it difficult to accept my therapist's kindness and I will often dismiss it, reject it, argue against it or forget what she's said, I have always found her to be warm and compassionate. If she lacked warmth, I think that would be a no go for me.

Perhaps it will come with you and your therapist? That sense of a stronger, warmer, trustworthy connection? Perhaps it will develop as you build your relationship and learn to trust her more?

How did you feel about the other therapist's you spoke to?
 
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