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What Is Your Value?

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Deleted member 1860

I keep ruminating on this one, so I have got to get it out!

For years now, I have felt like I have no value in this world, that I shouldn't be alive because I contribute nothing. It has taken me FOREVER to realize that I do indeed have value as a person. (And believe you me, my family has been pounding it into my head for a veeeery long time that I do have value!)

So anyway, the other day this guy I know (I can't even say he's a friend anymore) starts to question me, asking me what my value is in this world. I am taken aback and shocked at his line of questioning. I am immediately put on the defensive. But, in my defense (no pun intended!), wouldn't anyone feel that this line of questioning is a bit intrusive? I think it would put most people on the defensive because they'd take it as the other person thinking they are valueless! (Well, outside of a job interview sort of situation, where you may be asked about what valuable qualities you bring to a company.) But a friend questioning your value? Weird.

I continue by naming a few things that make me valuable as a person, that I truly do care about my loved ones and would do anything for them, I care about making the world a better place, and a bunch of stuff like that. He retorts that these things are human basics and they don't add to my value. At this point I'm a bit shocked. Caring about people doesn't add to my value? I do beg to differ given how much I see in the world about people hating one another. I do believe we can use as much caring kindness as possible. He also says "well, so everyone has value?"....to which I reply "I would like to think so, but I can't speak for the whole world." And yes, I would like to think that everyone has SOME value in this world. I think its quite cynical to have the attitude that there are people on this planet who are completely value-less. And the bigger issue, who is he (or anybody) to judge that someone else has no value? Sigh.

At this point I shut down the conversation. I tell him that I don't feel the need to spout out my value to this world. I am very much in the "people can see my qualities, and if I have to tell them they are there, THEY AREN'T" sort of camp. I also hate to feel like I'm bragging, and felt like the conversation was going nowhere.

He then responds that I am playing the eternal victim and how its impossible for me to have an ADULT conversation! Whoa, wait, WHAT? This is his idea of an adult conversation? Jumping on my value as a human being? Disguising this as an adult conversation?!?

I told him that I may have ZERO unique qualities about myself. (With 7+ Billion people in the world, its a very real possibility!) I continued by saying that it isn't the uniqueness of the individual qualities that make someone valuable. It is how these qualities are put together to make a whole person. And yes, I am confident that even with 7+ billion people in the world, I am probably the only one with my exact combination of qualities! (We all are!)

I guess I needed to get this one out, because his conversation style feels very much like that of my narcissistic tendency mother.... She will pick and pick and pick at something, hoping for you to take the bait. When you do, its inevitable that you'll get upset at some point, because its a thinly veiled conversation that is disguised as "just a topic of conversation" but in reality has a very personal connotation underneath.

And you know what? Maybe I was indeed a little defensive. BUT, given that I'm so fresh out of the "I have NO value" mindset, I do believe this defensiveness was warranted. His words didn't make me retreat into thinking I have no value. Rather, maybe that conversation was a way of proving to myself that others may question my value, but I am finally feeling strong enough to not cave in again and feel worthless.

This "friendship" is indeed coming to an end as both of us have changed so very much over the past few years. I can't even say that I'm sad to see it end. I think at one point it was good for both of us, but I see him as he used to be, and he sees me as I used to be, and neither of us are those people anymore. And, our new selves aren't compatible in the least. :-(

But, I still can't wrap my head around someone thinking its OK to question someone else about their value in this world.
 
Wow!
It's a good thing you're ending this friendship.
I kept thinking "What a jerk this guy is!", while reading your post.

I have struggled with this issue, as well, until one day I read a small book written by Henri J.M. Nouwen, "Life of the Beloved", about his experiences as chaplain at the L'Arche Daybreak community in Toronto. This is a place where very severely and developmentally disabled people live in a community with able people. The love and caregiving is incredibly beautiful.
He showed in ways that had me in tears how much of a blessing and gift to all of us even the most disabled people are.

I think you might like and be encouraged by this book as you continue to strengthen and come out of that dark, lying pit of "No Value, no worth."

While I wish I were healed and could do more, after reading Henri Nouwen's books, I have never questioned my worth again.

Good job at standing up to this "friend"! :tup: I am so amazed that he would try to knock you down emotionally by telling you you have no worth. How arrogant! I agree with you that it is not o.k. to question someone about their value.
Each person, in their own unique way, is intrinsically priceless.
:hug: If you accept them...
 
Glad to hear you'll be parting ways with that, um, yucky person. Struggled to find a polite term for that one, because that's just absurdly inexcusable behavior. It's awesome that you realize you deserve better friends than that, you're totally worth it. I joke about knowing I'm useful because I've been used but in a way it's true.
 
So anyway, the other day this guy I know (I can't even say he's a friend anymore) starts to question me, asking me what my value is in this world. I am taken aback and shocked at his line of questioning. I am immediately put on the defensive. But, in my defense (no pun intended!), wouldn't anyone feel that this line of questioning is a bit intrusive? I think it would put most people on the defensive because they'd take it as the other person thinking they are valueless! (Well, outside of a job interview sort of situation, where you may be asked about what valuable qualities you bring to a company.) But a friend questioning your value? Weird.
I don't know - I've been asked this question, by two people who I know care about me a great deal, and it's not because they are really saying "go ahead, what's your value, got any???" - it's because they are hoping to open up a conversation about how I do have value. So, to be honest, I would not think this line of questioning was intrusive from a friend. From a stranger, sure, unless we are in the getting to know each other phase of friendship.

In my opinion, you jumped the gun.

For what it's worth, I believe I have no value. Even though I absolutely believe that everyone should be graced with intrinsic value, I believe some of us aren't. Or everyone has it, but some of us so completely lose touch with it that it might as well be gone. I think that's what contributes in a big way to people suiciding.
 
@anonymous,

I thought at first I was jumping the gun, so that's why I continued with his line of questioning. When it got to the point where he was criticizing things that ARE valuable, that's when I realized he wasn't just trying to make me see that I have value, he was being a jerk. FUNNY THING IS, I know I have value, so again, he is basing his line of conversation on the old me. And like I said, we're hardly friends anymore. Its long drawn out drama that has been going on for awhile, and he likes to do this argumentative style of conversation to rile me up.

If he was trying to show me that I had value, why put me down when I mention things that are of value?

I do admit I was defensive, but at the same time, you don't instill a sense of value in someone by telling them that what IS valuable is a pile of shyte.

"Oh, you care about others? Meaningless!" I don't know what the heck he wanted me to say. We used to be very close. Now, not so much. I don't share with him anything going on in my life anymore. For all I know, he still thinks I'm sitting at home doing nothing 24/7. (Not that I ever was, but yeah, I had a long time when I was non-functional. Now I'm getting my life back together, but since we grew apart, I haven't shared any of that with him.)

So maybe he was trying to get me to see that I have value. But in the end, he didn't really go about it the right way, at least not in his follow up statements with putting down things that are indeed of value.

I hope you find a way to get in touch with your sense of self-value. You're here and helping people, right? I'd say that gives you value, even if you can't see it. I know what its like to feel like you have no value. I was there for many years, and I know if I have another episode or another bad day/week/month(s) then I'll likely revisit those feelings again. I hate feeling that way. And I'm the queen of self-hate. I still get down on myself, but somehow, things feel different now. I hope I continue on this upswing.
 
@lightraze

You hit the nail on the head!!!

He does often talk about logic and how I'm not logical! Not making excuses for all the stuff I do, but since when is ptsd logical?!?
 
At this point I shut down the conversation. I tell him that I don't feel the need to spout out my value to this world.

I think that's alright. It's a super awkward question, I think, like "What does God look like?"

If someone asked me this I'd probably say, "I don't know...about $8.00"....but on some level it just doesn't make sense because I know we are sort of priceless and that our value can't really be determined by what we do. I could say I am good at the work I do, but so are many other people who do my kind of work. It's more that I bring ME to what I do...the totality of my learning, experience, personality, curiosity, love, humor....just me. It's not the sort of question I'd feel okay answering....maybe because I have spent years trying to justify my existence or prove my worth. So now, feeling like I've grown a little beyond that, I think I'd just say :meh: to that kind of question. Or I'd do a Zen-like thing and ask another ridiculous question back instead of answering.

I might be a dumbshit sometimes and offer very little to the world in all my moments of isolation, but I can't be replaced. Of course none of us can.
 
After much thought, I'm calling bullshit on questioning someone's value! I've dealt with enough of this crap over my lifetime and to twist things and blame myself for misinterpreting someone else who questions my value------that amounts to voodoo bullshit gaslughting and no, I am not going to accept it. f*ck that and f*ck him. I don't need people in my life who tell me I am worthless.

We are the only f*cking species on f*cking earth that demands an individual have "value" in order to exist! Who determines what is valuable and who gives them that right? This REEKS of narcissism, egotism, etc. Let's kill everyone who is valueless, those who are severely intellectually challenged and add nothing to society, let's kill those who are disabled and unable to work because they are leeches of society, and the elderly, too as they do nothing for society. *rolls eyes* Yeah, let's go back to 1930's Nazi ideals. Do I have a knack for picking them or what? f*ck him. I don't need someone who questions my worth and tells me I'm worthless.
 
That dude is an idiot. He sounds like my BIL...saying things just to get someone riled up. He's not seriously asking the question from a state of curiosity and wanting to learn from your position--he's trying to undermine everything you think about yourself so he can feel better about himself. Don't play his games. If he really is like my BIL, he's very good at setting up mind games with people specifically to cut them down. It ain't worth it.

For me, the only way to keep from getting swept up in his junk is to ignore him and avoid him absolutely as much as possible (not easy when I'm related to the jerk). Don't even argue with him in your head. You'll only get yourself in a tangle. He wants to upset you...that's his goal. Don't feed the troll, and he'll eventually go looking somewhere else for better feeding grounds.
 
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