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When A Narcissist Is 'good'

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Actually they have very little self esteem.
We'll probably have to agree to disagree on that one. The ones I've had the most dealings with are pretty convincing in their "I am the greatest and the world needs to bow down to the very special ME" routine. I'll admit it MIGHT be an act, but I seriously doubt anyone acts that well or that consistently. I'd find it easier to empathize with them, if I thought they were really insecure, but my own experience suggests that they really believe what they appear to believe.
 
I was thinking that if they were younger then it could partially be an effect of little life experience away from their father (and his money). This doesn't appear to be the case. I think that some people are so terrified (albeit perhaps subconsciously) of not having the safety/security of $$$ that they will excuse away bad behavior as long as the person is providing for them. Sometimes the greed factor doesn't ever go away. (Just look at how nasty people can be even later in life when it comes to wills & inheritance!) But perhaps "greed" is indeed too harsh of a word. I mean we all want to feel financially secure in life, right? Maybe it's the fear combined with the very human need to feel safe/secure that is causing them (in part) to put up with such abusive behavior?

I don't mean to skirt the narcissism in all of this-----as that's another complexity. I think that even if it wasn't narcissism per se that your kids may still excuse away his behavior------but the very nature of narcissism, the push/pull behavior, the abuse cycle, etc does indeed seem to strengthen the "I can't complain about dad's abuse because he provides financially" dynamic.
 
My kids, all grown up, have a father that is a nasty piece of narcissist. I would venture to say he i...
Why of course, that is exactly what narcissists thrive on. I know many of such narcissists, and they do small favors or large favors for others, but never to simply do good, they do that to influence others so they comply with what they want, so that others see them as good people and trust them.

Narcissists have a wide array of tricks up their sleeves. My ex is one of those, and he has my son firmly under control with that too. One has to have a strong mind to escape a narcissist.
 
Remember, though, there is a huge huge huge difference of NPD and a psyco/sociopath. I think with NPD having a huge potiental to be an abuser and many were abused by one, folks seem to forget that NPD people arent "evil" nor is lacking empathy the same as inabilty to feel empathy.

Why of course, that is exactly what narcissists thrive on. I know many of such narcissists, and they do small favors or large favors for others, but never to simply do good, they do that to influence others so they comply with what they want, so that others see them as good people and trust them.

I knew someone with NPD and they did good and was a good person.

It is like they have this program running in them that says 'I would be nothing without Dad.' It is so deep that if anyone says anything about their father, they immediately come to his defense - in a rabid dog kind of way.

I did this, sticking up for my mom & step dad. It was bad enough that my therapist had to be VERY careful with his wording. I actually did this up until id say about a year or so but once blame shifted is when it really started to change and fast. And i was 16 yrs removed from contact with them and 6 yrs in therapy still did it. And a tape running constantly is about the best way to put it.

Its brainwashing and my therapist said Stockholm syndrome for me though not sure that applies here but brainwashing sure does. It is not likely even about money. I bet, if the same situation occured but without all the money it would be "without dad we wouldnt have food" or whatever, really anything the person doing the brainwashing wants to put there. In this case it just happens to be about money but i seriously doubt its about greed on the children's part nor do i think they even know they are doing it.

Sadly @shimmerz, I dont think there's much you really can do due to the fact they are in constant contact and that programming will be re-enforced over again. So even if they all stayed at your house for a month, he will undo any seed of doubt very quickly the moment they went back.

Id say, the best thing to do is when speaking to them about their dad, try to elevate him while planting some seed of doubt that they may not tell him about. How i dont know but if you can some how plant that seed of doubt without putting him down or even elevating him inside the convo, they are less likely to turn and bite.

Im sorry your kids are in this place! It is horrible to be brainwashed and horrible to undo it and I hate that for your kids!
 
I actually did this up until id say about a year or so but once blame shifted is when it really started to change and fast. And i was 16 yrs removed from contact with them and 6 yrs in therapy still did it. And a tape running constantly is about the best way to put it.

Its brainwashing and my therapist said Stockholm syndrome
Thank you for this. This is helpful. And I am certain Stockholm syndrome applies here as well. I am very sorry you have gone through this Lost. It is awful to watch. I can't imagine how it felt.
 
Thank you for this. This is helpful. And I am certain Stockholm syndrome applies here as well. I am...

@shimmerz There's also the fact that an NPD will operate with Ideation / Devaluation tools of manipulation with the people or family members under his control.

This can be a lot more subtle than just pushing away someone who questions him and favoring those who dont. Something as simple and normal in a relationship as sharing perceptions and feelings that put the NPD in a bad light, or shed light on unflattering traits of him can create a long, subtle alienation and distortion of that persons character as retribution for daring to veer from putting the NPD in anything other than a wonderful light.

Your kids would have total awareness of that, if even subconsciously. It's not like pointing a finger at a narcissistic new boyfriend or boss. They'll know that there's no such thing as "harmless little exposing of dad's bad side ". I'm sure your ex has a favorite and the others will worry about falling from less important into all out scapegoated.

I'm just wanting to mention this because of the wealth aspect. Being spoiled may be part of it with your kids, but I've never seen a Narc.with any financial resources pass up using them to play subtle and elaborate control games that involve emotional deception that go beyond just money. Its kind of smart too in the gas lighting department.

I'll bet if one of your kids seriously talked to him about his negative behavior traits, it would only be a matter of time before they were casually cut off from what they were used to getting and the other kids were convinced that one had ' hurt' the dad and done something wrong. I suspect your kids know that too.
 
They'll know that there's no such thing as "harmless little exposing of dad's bad side ".

Im not sure about @shimmerz's kids, but for me, regardless of what my mom & step dad did and my complete awareness of what they did. I went in circles for 6.5 yrs of my therapy justifying every single thing. It could have been plain as day to a blind man but i was 100% ignorant of any wrong doing on their part (and this is likely where we differ), and rather, it all was 100% my wrong doing.

But i think what we share is that knee jerk tear off your face reaction if you dared to say one bad thing about them. This is why i know so much of my therapist's family, as he would, as gentle as humanly possible and backed off at any hint of my "pounce", he would talk about his kids, his wife, how their relationship was and would ask me what i thought of it and then had me compare to my mom & step dad. And on the merry go round we went.

My point,

I'll bet if one of your kids seriously talked to him about his negative behavior traits, it would only be a matter of time before they were casually cut off from what they were used to getting and the other kids were convinced that one had ' hurt' the dad and done something wrong. I suspect your kids know that too.

If its "tear your face off" bad, im not sure "negitive behavior' would ever enter into any of their minds as he's there enforcing it. They dont have the seperation they need to be able to eventually see "dad isnt a saint". If that makes sense. Its not even a subconscience thing. Its a 'i fully believe this' thing.

Do they know that if they expose dad's bad, the other kids will pounce? Only if they have had enough doubt planted and to be honest, as much time it took with seperation for me (all i can go off of), im not its possible to have that much doubt planted as once planted he un-plants it right away way faster then it was planted so they never have a chance to doubt.

I can only speak from my own experience though so i dont know if its that bad. And i could be totally miss reading your post too.
 
it would only be a matter of time before they were casually cut off from what they were used to getting and the other kids were convinced that one had ' hurt' the dad and done something wrong.
There is no casual about it. They are instantly and without any remorse annihilated from the 'family' and all of the perks that that includes. They character is destroyed and the other two are happy to climb on board with the propaganda, as the revered 'golden child' spot has come up for grabs again.

There is no doubt in my mind that they know on a subconscious level at least that this is the way that things work. And they do whatever they need to in order to keep their place in the 'family'.

Lost, I have read your post and it resonates deeply. It is early here and need to think more about it before I respond.
 
Im not sure about @shimmerz's kids, but for me, regardless of what my mom...

No you didnt misread it, I think it's sometimes a distinction between narcissistic traits and pathological family behavior, and full on NPD in operation. What I didnt distinguish so well in that post was the difference between 'knowing' something and being consciously aware of it and weighing options. I used to defend my NPD like a little warrior , so did her other children. I felt incredible compassion and pity for her when she was treated badly, but her weapon of choice with us was humiliation, not only that, she was merciless and without any empathy at all, she visibly enjoyed it.

There's a very complex conflict that can go on there, trying to figure out how much reality we'll let ourselves think about. When I thought maybe shimmerz kids knew more than they let on, I was basing that on how I've seen kids behave as if nothing is wrong with an NPD parent that has a lot of emotional or financial power, we dont show it, even with each other, decades later we eventually found out we all felt the same way, even though we often defended her against each other.
 
When I thought maybe shimmerz kids knew more than they let on,
I keep trying to figure this out. Do they know? Are they aware? My SO says yes, they absolutely know.... but this stuff started happening to them when they were so young, I just don't know.

It seems to me, when I see it come out, that it is a vicious and automatic reaction. Like, primal. And I can only assume that whatever they are dishing out to me was at least what was given to them by their father.
 
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