1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

The Daily Dose

Get the last 24hrs of new topics delivered to your inbox.

Click Here to Subscribe

Yet Again US A10s Attack Brit Soldiers

Discussion in 'Social' started by Scott_Fraser, Feb 6, 2007.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Scott_Fraser

    Scott_Fraser Well-Known Member

    486
    14
    0
    Heard on the news tonight that once again 2 US Airforce 10 Warthogs attack our troops outside Basra. Whats worse it happened 3 years ago and it has been covered up by both our governments, yet again. The pilots weren't even front line guys, they were National Guard, who had never been in action before.
    The same thing happened in the 1st Gulf War when a patrol that I was in was attacked by an A10, and we lost 2 Warriors and 10 guys, it was the only guys that we lost during the campaign. Yet again nothing was done about the American Pilot.
    Don't get me wrong, in case I upset my American friends on this forum. The vast majority of your pilots are Top Notch Pilots and I have the utmost respect for them. But you still get the idiots that don't think before they shoot. Our own Airforce is not entirely blameless in this as well, as we all know.
    Cheers
    Scott
     
  2. Register to participate in live chat, PTSD discussion and more.
  3. batgirl

    batgirl I'm a VIP

    2,322
    172
    0
    Ugh that sucks Scott. My uncle Dan was killed OS by American "friendly fire", so I understand a bit how you feel about it.
     
  4. anthony

    anthony Renovation Aficionado Founder

    32,969
    46,397
    57,850
    Yep... I will say that I am not here to upset American soldiers either, but I believe the problems stem more from their training. I have trained with American soldiers many a times, they are undisciplined yahoo's who shoot first, then think. Not a good combination to have in war, hence why Australian soldiers don't go side by side with US soldiers, because we would end up dead as a result. Did you know that most US deaths are caused by their own fire? Fact, not fiction. I believe marines are much better than the general US Army recruitment, with lower self fatality losses. General Army I am referring too, and its not the soldiers fault that they have been trained half arsed and then put into situations they are not capable of controlling, but more the political system making the rules behind it, those who produce the training. Doctrine needs to be changed in the US Army to reflect higher standards of training for the general Army enlistments, because their just too dangerous. This applies across all services where their training is not at the highest level. Then, stupidity could be punished, because it would be a rare event in which such accidents happen, and friendly fire would be a rare occurence.
     
  5. anthony

    anthony Renovation Aficionado Founder

    32,969
    46,397
    57,850
    Gee, funny that... just went out to have a smoke, the news was on... what was the top story? US forces bomb UK forces once again, showing the footage of the attack from 2 years ago and confirmed that more UK soldiers have been killed by US friendly fire than by Iraqies. F*cking cowboys...
     
  6. batgirl

    batgirl I'm a VIP

    2,322
    172
    0
    Ugh I don't if you guys get any American news on satellite, but we do here, and Fox News (American) is just SICKENING!!!! My uncle and I watched the BBC News and then we watched Fox News, and there was such a huge difference between the two, covering the same exact story, that you almost thought they were different stories all together!!

    My uncle also said that:

    There were over 20,000 American friendly fire casualties in WW2;
    8,000 American friendly fire casualties in the Vietnam War;
    23% of all casualties in the Persian Gulf War were the result of friendly fire;
    5 Canadian soldiers in Afghanistan were killed by American friendly fire in just 1 year.

    And in addition, many Iraqi civilians have been killed accidentally by American soldiers, but the American government doesn't keep any statistics on the numbers.
     
  7. mac

    mac Active Member

    212
    6
    0
    Unfortunately, it seems these days that National Guard and Reservist troops are generally sent into harms way more often because the military can (from a somewhat strategic and mostly financial standpoint) absorb their losses easier than Active Duty losses. What our fine politician's (puke) didn't figure is that these troops, when done with their tour(s) in Iraq come back home, they can immediately file with the VA for assistance and this is wearing the country down just as much financially as if Active Duty were sent in the first place. Don't want no one to get any ideas that I am dogging them. I salute those troops though because they are being asked to do a lot more with a lot less these days, and because of this unfortunately, the odds of tragedy happening become increased. IMO, you shouldn't punish someone for a mistake they made that could have been avoided with reasonable training... one weekend a month/two weeks a year for training is not enough.

    Also, just want to say... don't forget about Pat Tillman; a man who sacrificed millions $$$ with a lucrative football career to join the US Army Rangers, only to be shot and killed in Afghanistan by his fellow troops... very sad : (
     
  8. Jim

    Jim Well-Known Member

    792
    36
    0
    Disgusting. Absolutely disgusting. And so preventable, with properly trained soldiers.

    Jim.
     
  9. anthony

    anthony Renovation Aficionado Founder

    32,969
    46,397
    57,850
    Now I have had complaints about this thread, viewed it over twice now, and see no bias towards any country, being America, but more a political discussion on factual information at hand. For those that want to complain to me about this thread, or another editor, please use the report post button (little bell) in the top right of every post on this forum, discussing your issues with a post in detail. A political discussion is more than acceptable, regardless which country is at fault. All politics are at fault if you ask me, and for those who complain about this thread, just be sure you are complaining about something that is directly biased, or not factual, before doing so, otherwise I will simply reject any editorial requests, as already done.

    Now, back to the thread. I totally agree with the above, in that the political nature of sending troops into war that DO NOT have the requisite experience in order to perform in combat effectively, including safely, should not be their. It IS NOT the soldiers fault, it is higher than that, training level, military command level, political level, not the soldier level. Soldiers don't train themselves, then decide to go to war, knowing or not whether they have enough skills to make effective decisions and actions under fire or within hostile situations. Effective training takes care of these things, and the US Army has a lot to answer for from the basic level soldiers they train and employ to fight, compared to marines and higher level, which are much higher disciplined and strategic awareness for battle, compared to just regular US Army. Not a dig, but a fact, in that one Australian Army soldier is worth approximately 10+ regular US Army soldiers in battle. I believe the UK is the same for level of training, not sure about Canada. I know that Malaysian troops are also highly undisciplined, as I have trained extensively with them, as I have the US and British.

    Now if you look at the politics of war, this means the US political arena are sending inadequate troops into war to makeup numbers, knowing they don't have the skills in order to fight an enemy that have been fighting in war for centuries. If you want my opinion, any soldier less than a US Marine sent into any war zone is as good as sending a person into be murdered. Strong words, but I have the experience and training with many countries to know this is very true.
     
  10. waynes

    waynes Member

    48
    8
    0
    I just wish that as a nation, the US (us) could get out of being looked to as the worlds policeman. It seems politically that if we dont go, we are the bad guy. If we do go we are the bad guy. Then we end up involving ourselves in someone elses bussiness and dragging our allies into it with us, making a big mess. Why do we always have to be the ones to clean up some one elses mess? I dont mean to sound isolationist, but when do we stop? Damn! When are people going to stand up for themselves against tyrany? We can't shove democracy down the worlds throat, when they don't understand or want it!
    Uh oh..... I'm ranting.... I'll shut up now.....

    Wayne
    PS The afgans needed their ass kicked. Don't hit us lest you want hit back... Hard.
     
  11. anthony

    anthony Renovation Aficionado Founder

    32,969
    46,397
    57,850
    A very good point wayne... and I totally agree with you. It is like East Timor from 99 and still present day. People got upset because the PM wouldn't send troops in to sort out civil unrest, bloodshed and so forth that went on until East Timor itself actually asked for help. I think it was a good move on his part, even though thousands where masacred, it is not our responsibility in this region to go and sort out others problems, especially if we haven't been asked. Sure, if a country asks for help, for troops to come in and restore order, but do that and get out, not hang around; or hand things over to the UN near immediately, and if the UN don't want involvment, then that is a good sign that the country should not be their any longer either, order restored now get out and go home. Same problem happened here, people jumped up and down for so many deployments to send troops in, but because of the sheer time it takes to not only restore order, but allow a country to stabalize, most civilians don't understand the consequences of deploying a military force, they think their police that can fight a war or something, not understanding that when you deploy a military into anything, it means total control, total shutdown of everything and anything to ensure that military control the environment, so that it can stabilize, but then what do you do when a country doesn't want you their anymore... you pull out as we did with East Timor, then 12 months later troops were back in their, because they couldn't maintain law and order, stability. They whinge, they piss and moan, then they cry for help. The same with Australian civilians, piss and moan that the military isn't helping some other country, then when they are and the costs start adding up, or someone dies, they piss and moan wanting troops home. Screwed if you do, screwed if you don't. I think the US issue was not based on actual law and order issues though, but instead they invaded a country, and where not asked. That is an act of war, and a mighty big one at that. I guess that is why its such a contentious issue surrounding Iraq??? The political US bullshit their population into approving an invasion because of terrorism, yet years later admit blatantly to the same public that terrorism had nothing to do with it, and the very people they used as an excuse to invade a country are not the one's at fault for the terrorist activity. What, do they think the public just forgot? Do they think their public changed?

    I was reading the business section of The Age newspaper today, reading that China will now become the new political power of the world, because America has lost it, they are 30 trillian dollars (some ridiculous amount) in foreign debt because of political stupidity. The US political structure have bankrupt their own country... hell, this is why the US has now made the third world adoption list, trying to shift abandoned children out of their own country because they can't maintain them, because the US is pretty much broke as a nation now. China is now earmarked to officially become the new political world power this year, as they are thriving, and have the population to boot. The US need to spend a decade staying in their own country, sorting their own country out, getting rid of a lot of this debt, fixing all the issues within the US, then maybe they will stand a chance later on at taking some control within the world again, because they are just about to lose it all this year from their own political stupidity.

    I believe I saw on TV that Hiliary Clinton is running for president. I personally think the US needs a strong female to do that job for two terms, to get the country back on track and out of the thinking that war is good. Focus on the people, build stability within once again...
     
  12. cookie

    cookie I'm a VIP

    1,302
    83
    0
    all of it is unfortunate. caused by sin when you keep taking all the layers apart.
    i wouldn't trust hiliary clinton as far as i could throw her. she will take the stand of anyone that she perceives will help her out, i don't think she really cares about anyone.
    cathy
     
  13. Scott_Fraser

    Scott_Fraser Well-Known Member

    486
    14
    0
    Hi folks. Yes reading all of the replies about this it is a "Hot Potato", but in war things happen, mainly due to indiscipline, not just our American allies but some of our own troops have tarnished the name of the British Army as well. I'm meaning the guys from the Royal Regiment of Fusiliers who were mistreating Iraqi prisoners in a Basra Jail, just in the same way that those American Troops did the same in that jail in Bagdad, they brought shame on both Armies.
    My Grandfather who fought in Normandy said that they lost more troops to the American 8th Airforce than they did to the German Army.
    But saying that. I think that it is time to bring our guys home, let the UN take over in Iraq, it is now an untenable situation, and I think that it would be best to bring the boys home, American & British. We've done our job. But Tony Blair and George Bush will not listen to us. How many more young men and women in our 2 armies have to die, be maimed for life and suffer the hell of combat stress, just to satisfy 2 politician's egos. Enough is enough.
    Sure, concentrate on Afghanistan, as that is the main problem, and of course where it all started after 9/11. They will never be peace in the Middle East, The Romans couldn't do it 2000 years ago, what chance have we.
    Anthony, you said that the best US Troops are their Marines, but I would say that there best Army Units are the 82nd & 101st Airbourne divisions these guys are the best, I worked with guys from the 101st during the 1st Gulf War and these guys know there business.
    Cheers
    Scott
     
Loading...
Similar Threads - Yet Again A10s
  1. Casey_03
    Replies:
    5
    Views:
    261
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Show Sidebar