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Relationship Yet another isolation story - saying goodbye blows

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Itsatay

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Hey guys. Just need to get some stuff off my chest. I've lurked here for a while and this forum has been wonderful in helping me not screw up my friendship with a retired combat vet, so I hope it's OK.

He'd brought up years ago that if he gets too close to people, he cuts ties. He's been totally upfront that he can't get into romantic relationships with women(I'm female). That's fine, I keep it strictly platonic, and I'd never disrespect his choice by trying to initiate something. I don't get touchy-feely, I try not to be too empathetic or emotional since it makes him pretty uncomfortable. He believes he destroys everything he touches, which sucks because he's never been anything but a positive influence in my life, although I'm sure sometimes that means he's putting in a lot of effort - and I'm sure a lot of it also boils down to having kept things platonic and uncomplicated. I've seen the push-and-pull roller coaster and the cycles of isolation. I'll send him a funny picture every couple of weeks when he needs alone time, sort of to say, "hey I'm still here as your pal", but without any obligation to respond if he's not up for it. It's fine - I'm his friend, not his mother or his girl.

When the withdrawal gets bad sometimes he'll still talk to me, and he's brought up going off-grid a number of times in the past. Well, the plans are becoming more of a reality, seems he's got some land he's been looking at. He has made it clear that when he finalizes all of his off-grid prep, that'll be it. He intends to drop completely out of the "civilian jungle", forget about me and "erase himself from my existence for my own good". He then sort of implied that he has feelings for me in a roundabout way, and kept asking whether or not I was attracted to him. Kind of an unfair question I think given the boundaries he'd previously set. There are very few women on the planet that would not find him attractive, but I know a relationship would never work between us, especially while he's untreated. Especially while he's planning to isolate for good. So I just have no interest in entertaining those sorts of thoughts, definitely not now. And I'm not sure what he was hoping to achieve by asking, I guess. Very confusing.

Ugh. He honestly believes he's a destructive force in my life and even now he's trying to protect me, even if it means protecting me from himself. I tried to explain the ways that he's positively influenced me(and they are many), but I seemed to just make it worse - because at this moment he seems to see any influence he has on anyone as tainted and somehow bad.

I always knew this could happen, I really did. Especially if he's caught feelings for me, then I can't be the kind of friend he needs, I guess. And I feel like the best and only thing I can do is to not make him feel guilty about leaving. I'm very, very grateful that he was able to tell me he plans to cut ties instead of just ghosting on me, that was probably hard to do. He does want to meet up one last time just to hang out and just have fun (we live in different cities right now). I just really hope I don't cry at the end of it, man. That would be super f**ked.

I mainly just needed to vent but I'd really welcome any advice or perspective you guys might have. Dude was my best friend for years, and I don't have many. Sucks.
 
Hi @Itsatay I'm so sorry you're dealing with this, but I just wanted to say, this is hard to overcome:

Ugh. He honestly believes he's a destructive force in my life and even now he's trying to protect me, even if it means protecting me from himself. I tried to explain the ways that he's positively influenced me(and they are many), but I seemed to just make it worse - because at this moment he seems to see any influence he has on anyone as tainted and somehow bad.

and especially when combined with feeling getting 'away' is a really attractive solution (which it is, in the sense of stress reduction. I've actually been pressured by another to do this, and certainly relate to the 'I should do so, for (all) others' sake', component). I relate very much to this, also:

"erase himself from my existence for my own good".

Because I don't think it's so much 'saying it' as 'meaning it'. And of course bad reminders can be the connotation, it's very hard to think there would be an upside when you aren't experienced having it or believing it would work out for you.

You are very loving to support him at cost to you. I am sure you have done so, as trust is built by so very many opportunities (or challenges) where the other person doesn't turn away, and makes your well-being equal to concern for theirs; I don't think he would have revealed to you what he did without it. And the terrible thing is, commitment comes from saying if you're in pain my world stops, even if I had a part in causing the pain, I will sacrifice for you (in essence the other person's well-being is more important), and 'we' will continue come-what-may, together. By what you've described done that, but it sounds like he can't.

I know it's tempting to think therapy is the solution, and it is in so many ways, but as a process. And I would say really quite horrific -it's said the '2nd time through' (or 3rd, 4th, 5th..?) trauma(s) are worse than the first time they occurred. He may be just too overwhelmed or too scared to tackle much. Which doesn't reflect on you, and yes- I am glad he didn't ghost.

I hope this makes sense. :( I'm sorry for you. You sound very sad. :(

Welcome to you.
 
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I'm so sorry you're both going through this. I'm especially saddened to hear that he feels this is his only option. It took my guy a long time to be able to live around people after his service. He went off grid for about three years. He kept in touch with his mother. Didn't want her to worry. His family still has no idea he was homeless all of those years.

Everything and i mean everything was just too much for him. I wasn't in his life during this time but I think if he hadn't done it he wouldn't still be here. He had to get his head together in his own way at that time. And that's the only way he could shut out everything that caused....anything.

Prayers for you and especially for his safety.
 
Thank you both for your perspective and your kind words. @Junebug I can't imagine how difficult it must be to feel this way. To us non-sufferers, we think about the more visible things like panic attacks and hypervigilance that we hear about in regards to PTSD, and while we can't understand what you go through, we can at least recognize those things. These past few years have been really eye-opening about how deep the invisible symptoms can run, and how hard it can be to even untangle what is and isn't a typical stress reaction. I'm starting to see just how much effort it is for my friend to appear happy and normal to mutual friends especially when he's in a low tide. It must be exhausting.

@LuckiLee I'm so encouraged to hear that your guy benefited from his time off-grid. My friend is a master outdoorsman and I know he's able to cut it out there on his own, but he clueless non-sufferer civilian in me is like "NO DON'T DO IT OH GOD IT'S DANGEROUS YOU'LL BE LONELY". The friend in me just has to trust his ability to know and do what's best for him.


I spoke to him last night, we just played some online games and talked a bit - I tried to keep it light and he seemed a bit embarrassed that he'd put me on the spot asking about my feelings for him the night before. The rest of it though, it was like he didn't remember telling me he planned to cut ties with me. I mentioned a half-marathon I'm doing early next year, he encouraged me to train for a full marathon after that said he'd join me. I told him that would be long after his deadline for leaving and he said, "So? that wouldn't stop me." It also seems he'll still be in my area for a camping trip we'd planned that he cancelled the previous night. I'm so confused. Not really sure I can address it while he's yo-yo-ing, I guess I just need to keep these plans to go camping or running on my own, and if he's able to join it'll be an awesome treat.
 
When my guy is symptomatic?? He comes up with all kinds of ideas to get away from everything.... I'm outta here. I'm going to Florida to work with Johnny D. I'm moving back to Tennessee. F this state, I'm gone. I'm moving North. I'm done with therapy...

He's just venting. He has no intention of doing any of those things. He just wishes he could some times. He's wishy washy. ;)

Until he acts on any of it?? I just listen and support his "dreams".

The fact that your guy is still communicating with you is HUGE. And yes, you should follow through with all of your plans, he'll join when he can.

It seems he feels safe with you which is awesome because he can share his thoughts and not be judged. Just listen to him. That's the best thing you can do.

He's lucky to have you. Best wishes to both of you!
 
Thank you also @Itsatay as I can't believe (in a good way, I mean), you are so understanding of this, both on an intellectual and heart-level when you said:

These past few years have been really eye-opening about how deep the invisible symptoms can run, and how hard it can be to even untangle what is and isn't a typical stress reaction. I'm starting to see just how much effort it is for my friend to appear happy and normal to mutual friends especially when he's in a low tide. It must be exhausting.

^^ This really is spot-on, in my experience.

As is this:

Everything and i mean everything was just too much for him. I wasn't in his life during this time but I think if he hadn't done it he wouldn't still be here. He had to get his head together in his own way at that time. And that's the only way he could shut out everything that caused....anything.

However, I think, too, when someone is living this:

His family still has no idea he was homeless all of those years.

I would say he likely didn't feel particularly of value or having much in the way of avenues of support, and this was true (or someone would have followed through and noticed).

I think the consequence or decision or contemplation of such a thing may 'look' alike in various cases but reflect a slightly different thought pattern behind it. For example, though all of it can most likely have (overwhelming) stress behind it, there is the situation of emotional disregulation (like @LuckiLee said , re: Fl, etc)- spontaneous and more like a somewhat-temporary meltdown. Then you can have the case like my dad, who really was going to do it. Until my sister said, "Dad- WTF are you talking about- you have a wife and 4 kids?!" , to which seemed to 'snap' him back in to a reality he quite honestly seemed to have totally forgotten. And then my experience, at times I have just walked away; had I but had the resources I would have done the same, at least disappeared off the radar. (Yes I am sorry I did so, but it was more than once and took decades to even think it might have had an effect on the other, in regards to their self-esteem, etc.) I do suppose in my mind I had ~'thought' about it a lot (to leave)- but yet- not really 'at all'.

I think all of these examples go back to impaired or constricted thinking, and in my case running from trauma (internally), with denial and avoidance. To this day I often 'feel' the same, but I understand it differently- even maybe just to say I have a better bit of awareness my thinking might be offline. But still, I need other's input because I can't get it online myself. That is not from not trying as hard as I can, I think rather it's because I cannot actually 'engage' my pre-frontal cortex as I 'should', because it's so so so very influenced by my limbic system (which interferes/ precludes that.)

So I do think if you're friends, just as my sister did you shouldn't be concerned about being honest.

Interestingly, as a side note I heard a definition of a researcher of trust for decades say whereas trust is made up of so very many small moments, betrayal is not related to trust; betrayal is finding out someone is someone-they're-not. And I think that is a great fear with interpersonal past traumas. Of course trust goes back to safety too. But usually people are hurt by people pretending to be different than what they're living/ would consider doing/ are doing. And that makes sense to me as regards interpersonal fear.

There is, too, the truth that he may simply love to be off the grid, especially when competent. Nature is wonderfully healing, getting away from the Rat Race or off The Wheel most of our dreams. Especially when one's wheel is going 4 or 5 times as fast as the average.

Anything that reduces stress or adds joy I think helps so much. As does basic self care have a huge part, too, and sleep is usually disturbed or elusive. And managing pain. Etc. It all adds up to difficulty being able to manage.

I guess I just need to keep these plans to go camping or running on my own, and if he's able to join it'll be an awesome treat.

I think that's totally correct ^^ . I would only add just as LuckiLee said about going homeless, it might help if you reach out as Idk but I'd bet for him it won't be very easy to do so.

I'd say the more one gives over to isolation the more it feeds itself.

I think it's very important to have outside input.

Ps, ETA I think he hit the jackpot with you as a friend. But his trauma/ wounds/ fear, might be too large to try, to believe in something else. (Or so it may feel to him).

JMHO/Experience for all of it though.
 
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Spot on @Junebug. You're right, he had no support. His family is useless in that regard. The women in his life only thought of themselves. So it was easy for him to just take off because they showed him they truly didn't care. They only cared about how his behavior effected them. Not the reasons for these behaviors.

I'm not sure when he was diagnosed. We both believe he developed PTSD on his first deployment when he just turned 18yo. He had the disorder his entire career. And advanced rapidly. While his personal life, what little he had disintegrated.

You mentioned he didn't feel of value. That's an understatement. He was extremely valuable in the military. At home, he was just another Tom, Dick or Harry. He still struggles with this. Combat veterans see and do horrible things to stay alive and protect people. The more they advance, the more the training and violence increase...

He came home a hero. A strong unbreakable warrior. (to the outside world) That's a lot of pressure for someone who feels anything but a hero.

He ran from everything when he could. He stays now?? Because he's started to feel of value and I accept all of him. I've seen him in really dark places and I haven't left him so I think he realizes I'm not going anywhere and will support whatever he needs.

Ok. I'm rambling now. Gotta get my day moving. Have a good one.
 
He is a very lucky man @LuckiLee . :)

You know, when I think about it, and it could be 'just me' or a brain that thinks too much, but so so very much that is espoused as what or how people 'should' be seems to lose out on what and how they are. I know it's so challenging to accept the presence of ptsd (I myself don't want to put someone else through it), but in another way, there's no doubt it is a real connection (or lack of), or understanding (or lack thereof), you have together (or not), .

I think when they say some people aren't able to deal with such stuff, it is very true. And it is ok for the very reason they are different, also. But for those also who understand, how can one put a value on that, I think it is priceless. Much as people say, The Dog Whisperer; The Horse Whisperer; The Supporter Whisperer (= @Freida ? , lol :p ). A Sufferer Whisperer? :):hug:

But really, you've both spoken as though you are greatly supportive and understanding. And you 'get' what he's facing @LuckiLee , as you referred to, in the duality, and fitting in to 'conventional' society; to his sense of place; purpose; self-worth. Etc. Etc. All the while from a vantage point of knowing he's got to work with what he's got and the brain he's got, surrounded by so many people who just don't understand. :(

Idk, I think of my mom and dad back in a day when there was no help for virtually anything, and no help much than each other. But somehow, they figured out ways that 'worked' with and for each other. But it was unconventional if they chose it to be. (I do giggle however, when I hear 'research shows..' and it's what they 'did'. They did it though because they understood each other. And obviously I suppose found it worthwhile to overcome enough of the fear to fight to overcome what was causing the grief or pain, to themselves and each other.)

Because, Idk, I can honestly say just for myself, half of what I hear or read I see (in the greater World or society at large), well gee, I can't even remember I'm supposed to think it, or do it, or 'be' a certain way, and just as equally supposedly expect others to remember and do it for me too. OMG, :( , it seems to focus heavily on what is expected vs what is at (or in) the heart. More superficial than what's most important/ of most value. :confused:

I probably mis-spoke, too, in saying Limbic system, though it's true the nervous system is well, a huge factor, and emotions in general (though I would say,burying most of them as more a factor, especially during and post trauma(s). ) Maybe more accurately I should have said Amygdala Hijacking. Because after long enough time dealing with this, I can truly honestly say there are moments I may look 'ok' superficially on the outside, but my brain is just in sheer terror. Impossible at that moment to self-generate clarity/ clear thoughts (for me). (ETA, physiologically/ cognitively impossible for anyone; I'd say the biggest difference with ptsd is how long those moments can last (even as a baseline), how quickly they can re-occur, and how quite well many of us can hide them).
 
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The Supporter Whisperer (= @Freida ? , lol :p )
Ok that's just funny!

oh hun. first --- @LuckiLee and @Junebug are right -- you are a really, really good friend.
I'm very, very grateful that he was able to tell me he plans to cut ties instead of just ghosting on me, that was probably hard to do.
I'm not entirely sure you realize what a huge deal this is. Tell someone you're ghosting? Trust them to know? Actually think about them ahead of time? That is really, really, really hard to do. I threaten all the damn time, but the times I've done it just keeping my shit together long enough to tell hubby I'm bailing about kills me. So the fact that he is making plans, thinking it out and then telling you? That is awesome! Yea I'm guessing not quite the answer you were expecting but it is. It means he is still thinking - about him, about you, about what he is going to do next. If we want to split hairs that may not even be true ghosting. Ghosting means I'm bailing on you and you will hear from me when I get around to getting in touch. What he's doing seems like more of a thought out Reset. Going somewhere quiet, without all the babbling and needs that exist in the day to day world, and finally being able to breathe. To be still. To not have to keep up that damn facade that so many of us hide behind.

And yes -- it is exhausting. Trying to pretend that you are normal, that there aren't constant screams in your head, that you don't see bad guys behind every bush? It takes a crippling amount of energy. Because we know what is going to happen when that facade goes down. People will see me - as I am. And no one can see that. A big basis of ptsd is shame -- NO ONE can see who I truly am. They won't be able to handle it. Then they will bail and I'll be left to pick up the pieces. Better that they never see that part of me -even if that means living in a tent in the woods. Or in my case a condo on the beach (I hate tent camping!)

Not really sure I can address it while he's yo-yo-ing, I guess I just need to keep these plans to go camping or running on my own, and if he's able to join it'll be an awesome treat.
Exactly. You are giving him permission to be broken, and to take the time to fix himself. You will keep on going on with your life until he comes back. I'm guessing (again) you have no idea how rare that is.

I've seen him in really dark places and I haven't left him so I think he realizes I'm not going anywhere and will support whatever he needs.
This! ^^^^^^^^ I can count on one hand the people I've allowed to see me in that dark place -- because most can't wrap their minds around the fact that under my happy exterior is someone who has done horrible, horrible things. (stand down @LuckiLee - I'm getting better about that saying horrible things that had to be done!! LOL :hug::hug:)
If you are that person for him it is a true place of honor. But it is also threatening if you know too much. That's where the yoyo comes in.

I think it might be acceptable for you to ask for a check in - say every week or so - just so you know he is ok. Reassure him you don't need to talk to him. Maybe just a text saying "I'm not dead" would work. Something that keeps him connected, however briefly, with you so that he remembers he has someone on the outside who will be around when he's ready to come out.
 
Thank you guys so much for your replies - I've had several "aha" moments reading through this.

But it is also threatening if you know too much. That's where the yoyo comes in.
Ooooh, this explains so very much. It's easy to think it's a good thing to be able to open up about the difficult things in his past he's brought up. I can see how that's not necessarily the case though. Sometimes he gets annoyed that I don't really "get it" but can't delve too deep into it regardless. Geez. Whether he opens up too much or too little, seems it can be painful both ways.


He likes to talk about things in sort of abstract ways, and sometimes he'll say something like, "hey I'm not going to be able to make this convention we've been planning for the past 6 months" and I'll just accept it, accept that he's got too much going on... but then he'll immediately play it off as a joke or a tease. "LOL you really think I'd miss this? C'mon." I've thought maybe he's trying to gauge reactions. It does make it tough to figure out when he's joking or when he genuinely needs to back out of plans and switch off. As for going off-grid - I think he's serious about that. Almost everything he owns is packed in a shipping pod. I'm hoping he'll allow me to contact him once he goes off-grid - I have his email but I'm not sure that he plans on keeping any technology around so he can check it. He may not have even decided. I'll hope for the best though!
 
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