Relationship Am I giving too much space or too little? Struggling with partner's abandonment patterns.

Hi everyone, I'm sorry if this is too long, or too inarticulate. I'm exhausted.

For background I've been with my partner for 13 years, on and off and on again. He is the love of my life. He is strong, and kind, and observant, and we can laugh together, and when I'm with him he feels like home, and he sees me in a way that I don't feel like anyone else ever has.

He has never been diagnosed but I believe he suffers from CPTSD. He was abandoned and left to fend for himself as a child, and I feel like he was betrayed or mistreated by almost every adult in his life that should have been the ones to help and cherish him. When we first met he used to tell me a lot that he had been "on his own" from the age of 11. When he is upset (triggered?) he is just gone. I believe he dissociates. There is no warning, he is just not reachable. Each time it's a shock, like suddenly being plunged into ice cold water, because everything changes instantly. Back then, we fell into a dynamic where he would stop answering the phone, but sooner or later I would run into him on the street, and we would talk a little, although he would be sort of "not there" - like his body would be going through the motions, but his soul would be somewhere else, but slowly he would start to come back, and eventually he would pick up the phone again, and come back to my house, and we would be ok until the next time.

Four or five years ago we finally got to a place where we really talked, and he finally told me he loved me. It was clear before that, but he had never said it, and we were able to have some more open and vulnerable conversation and he promised he would never leave me again. He kept saying "you always find me", and I always did - I couldn't help myself, because he is my person, and through thick and thin he feels right for me. And I think, maybe? that he needs me to keep finding him, to prove to him that he is worthy of being found, because of all those people in his childhood that left him and didn't look back. Things have been better these last 4 years, and we started running a business together, which in some ways has been great because it's a kind of non-emotional hook that necessitates communication even when he is in a phase where he feels numb. And I'm starting to be able to understand more of what is going on for him, and just how much he is dealing with.

However.... I had to leave the country to come home and sort out some affairs and visit my parents, who were in a serious car accident last year. The day before I was leaving, there was a misunderstanding with a vendor - I had needed an insurance certificate from them, and didn't have the right contact, and had ended up calling the insurance company, and the vendor (who didn't have my number) called him and was very upset. When I then was able to speak to the vendor and explain there was an audit coming up, everything was fine and all straightened out congenially in a 5 minute phone call. However my partner called my furious, and was yelling at me, and accusing me of putting him in danger and that he could get taken to court. (As a sidenote, I would NEVER do anything that would put him or his business at risk like that). In retrospect, it was clear that this was an oversized reaction, and maybe due to the fact that he was anxious about me leaving, but in the moment I raised my voice to try and get him to listen to me, because it was really hurtful to me that in these situations he always believes the worst possible thing about me. And then he hung up the phone and cut off all communication.

This was 4 weeks ago. So it's been hellish. When able to calm down and parse it through I feel terrible for raising my voice at him, but also frustrated because I'm only human and sometimes I make mistakes, but once it's happened there is no gong back, no apologizing, no anything, and while I can intellectually understand why, I still feel abandoned. Last time we had a break like this, he would still communicate about work, but this time, he won't talk to me at all, so I've also been in the position of fielding client calls, with information that needs to be passed on. I've been emailing whatever needs to be communicated but with no response I can't tell what information is making its way through, and so on top of feeling alone and abandoned, I'm also trying to protect his business from falling apart and hide from clients the fact that he isn't speaking to me, which - I don't know?????? there is no manual for this.

I've been trying to be non-confrontational, and just communicate what needs to be said work wise, and hope for the best. I had tried a few times to call (like once a week) and sent him a few texts telling him that I love him, and I miss him, and I hope that he's ok - because I don't want to overload him, but I also thought it he's feeling abandoned it might be reassuring? He agreed by text to a phone call for the first time a few days ago, so we were able to speak - pretty much about work - but I'm hoping it's the beginning of the end, because I don't know how much longer I can keep up the client charade. Am I doing the right thing? I "think" he can't help it when he disappears, and I "think" he wants me to keep trying, but it's hard to know and trying to work it all out with no guidance is exhausting. And while I'm trying to be rational and calm and level-headed, and remind myself that this has happened before and that he always comes back, every time it happens I feel abandoned and terrified that this time is really it, and he won't come back. And I love and adore him, and at the same time I'm scared because it means I can't rely on him: if in the middle of one of these episodes something really bad happened - if I was hospitalized or something - would he come, or would nothing make him come when he is in hiding?

I'm just so tired and I really really need some people that have been through this: thoughts, advice, support - anything? I have 2 friends that know the whole situation. One currently has a newborn and the other is hospitalized with leukemia and I can't burden either of them. I also am wary of discussing his behavior with friends and family, because if they only see me in relation to him when I'm broken and distraught, I'm afraid of it turning them against him, and I want to protect him from that. I'm also struggling with the fact that when we are apart and he's in a bad place, it gives me a lot of time to think, and every time I think that I should at least try and talk to him about getting treatment, but it always takes a while for things to go back to normal, and I'm scared of bringing it up when he's in a bad place and him going away again, and then when things are good it all feels a little crazy, like this whole other world doesn't exist. Until it does and I'm thrown right back down there again.

Ugh. Sorry. I'm not even sure this relates to the topic heading, it's just all been bottled up for so long.
 
I’m not a CPTSD expert, and also I don’t know the whole situation - so I can’t say anything for certain.

But what I’ve learned about myself recently is that I’m not superhuman, and I can’t be perfect.

If you hit my arm hard enough, it’ll break.

If you hit my heart hard enough, it’ll break.

I’m not sure anyone is immune from that (unless they have some kind of emotion suppressing mental health condition).

If you responded emotionally, it may well be because you’re a healthy human being who’s able to get hurt.

In my opinion, it’s a really lovely thing to stay strong for someone with a condition like CPTSD, but no human has limitless strength and this kind of situation can be really tough.

It’s tempting to believe that you have to be/can be perfect for someone that you care about, but no one can actually do that; and usually in relationships with loved ones, you don’t have to be either.

Unless you did something genuinely malicious, or absolutely, ridiculously outrageous, I - at the very least - wouldn’t turn all of the blame on yourself.

It’s unhealthy, it’ll hurt you more, and it’ll stop you from seeing the situation calmly and objectively - which won’t help you to make good decisions here.

Be kind to yourself. It’s not an unrealistic cliché, it’s essential for making healthy decisions for what to do next :)
 
Thank you for this. I know, rationally, that I didn't do anything to deserve such an extreme response, and the response is indicative of his general level of distress at the moment. Also that if this wasn't the trigger, something else could have been.

I'm trying to be kind to myself and I think I have become a lot better about self care during these times, but it's really hard to hold everything all at once: like knowing both that I didn't do anything to deserve this treatment, but also hold on to the fact that he is acting out of a place of hurt and fear and stress, rather than just being a monster. That I'm not a bad person and neither is he - it's the situation. But that is a lot of emotional balancing to do, when inside I go between feeling like human trash that has been thrown away to feeling like someone who has been treated horribly by someone without deserving it, and feeling angry and wanting to sulk a bit.

Just reading the posts on this forum has been a big relief: seeing other people going through the same patterns. I wish none of us were, but it helps so much to not be alone, and also to see that this happens - that it's not just me being an unloveable monster - which sounds so stupid when written down, but if I'm being totally honest those feelings come up every time this happens.
 
hello notgoodatnames. welcome to the forum. sorry for what brings you here, but glad you are here.

i speak to you as a ptsd frequent flier who has spent 45 years with a man who i suspect is suffering secondary ptsd from the trials and tribulations of living with my ptsd. i have wondered if he is using me to mask his own problems, buttttttttaaaaaa. . . that is his to sort and he spends far more time worrying about me and where i ran off to THIS TIME to look closely at himself. in recent years he has taken to declaring, "i love you in spite of my perfections." i take that as progress. he is still far too perfect for psychotherapy, but at least i am feeling less pressured to be properly fixed in his own image. i often feel like he loves me so much he is determined to change everything about me. for my own good, of course. letting me trust my therapy network seems to be quite beyond his fix-it instincts. works in progress. get that screwdriver out of my freaking ear, honey bunch.

this man is the love of my life and has been the only stable influence in my broken, rootless life, but i honestly believe that the years we have lived apart are the most important years of our 45 year partnership. those are the years we learned how to live and let live.

dunno if any of that has anything to do with your case, or knot. just sharing as an excuse to welcome you aboard.
 
What is this guy doing to solve his own problems? I'm asking because the problems are his to solve, they aren't your responsibility.

When I very first contacted a therapist (and I was really lucky, because he was very good at his job) he told me that if what I was dealing with was PTSD it wasn't going away by itself, it affected more aspects of my life than I realized, and no one can "fix" it themselves without help. Turns out he was right. (Go figure!) It's not reasonable to expect your relationship to improve unless he's willing to own his parts in things being the way they are and to make an effort to change. You can't "fix" the relationship by yourself and you can't fix him either.

Does he see any kind of problem to be fixed? It's totally possible that he doesn't have the kind of insight he'd need to see a problem. Turns out that people often assume what they've come to think of as "the way we do things around here" is normal and functional, even if it's not.
 
What is this guy doing to solve his own problems? I'm asking because the problems are his to solve, they aren't your responsibility.

When I very first contacted a therapist (and I was really lucky, because he was very good at his job) he told me that if what I was dealing with was PTSD it wasn't going away by itself, it affected more aspects of my life than I realized, and no one can "fix" it themselves without help. Turns out he was right. (Go figure!) It's not reasonable to expect your relationship to improve unless he's willing to own his parts in things being the way they are and to make an effort to change. You can't "fix" the relationship by yourself and you can't fix him either.

Does he see any kind of problem to be fixed? It's totally possible that he doesn't have the kind of insight he'd need to see a problem. Turns out that people often assume what they've come to think of as "the way we do things around here" is normal and functional, even if it's not.
I agree, and I know that I can't fix him. In some ways he is quite self aware, in that he's been able to explain to me that his head "comes and goes", and that sometimes he doesn't feel anything about anything. I had been in therapy myself for years, although I'm taking a break right now, and my therapist would observe that he has never shown any signs of wanting to change, however, I actually don't believe that is the case. Or necessarily the case. I do think it's more a case of him thinking that this is his lot in life, and this is how things are going to be for him. I'm not sure it has ever occurred to him that there might be a way for him to not feel this way. I've always tried to just listen when he has shared trauma with me, without pressuring him, but I wonder if maybe he is asking for help in a way, and maybe I should do more to try to suggest to him that he could get help? Because if he won't, then I know, and if things could be better for him that would be great all around. He is from the Caribbean, from a place where there isn't support of any kind for pretty much anything, so I don't think it's a given that he would be resistant, more that it's just not part of his culture.

Does anyone have any thoughts on how or when to bring it up with him? I can't do it when he is completely closed down, because nothing will get through right now. When he is feeling better I never want to rock the boat, but that is probably a bit stupid really.

hello notgoodatnames. welcome to the forum. sorry for what brings you here, but glad you are here.

i speak to you as a ptsd frequent flier who has spent 45 years with a man who i suspect is suffering secondary ptsd from the trials and tribulations of living with my ptsd. i have wondered if he is using me to mask his own problems, buttttttttaaaaaa. . . that is his to sort and he spends far more time worrying about me and where i ran off to THIS TIME to look closely at himself. in recent years he has taken to declaring, "i love you in spite of my perfections." i take that as progress. he is still far too perfect for psychotherapy, but at least i am feeling less pressured to be properly fixed in his own image. i often feel like he loves me so much he is determined to change everything about me. for my own good, of course. letting me trust my therapy network seems to be quite beyond his fix-it instincts. works in progress. get that screwdriver out of my freaking ear, honey bunch.

this man is the love of my life and has been the only stable influence in my broken, rootless life, but i honestly believe that the years we have lived apart are the most important years of our 45 year partnership. those are the years we learned how to live and let live.

dunno if any of that has anything to do with your case, or knot. just sharing as an excuse to welcome you aboard.
Thank you for sharing, and for your welcome. It feels like such a relief just to have found somewhere to talk about this.
 
When he is feeling better I never want to rock the boat, but that is probably a bit stupid really.
I don't think that's stupid. It's understandable. But, you're also right about it being hard to have that conversation during a crisis.
I do think it's more a case of him thinking that this is his lot in life,
I can really relate to that. Working with my therapist (and like I said, he was good at his job & that matters a LOT) was like opening a door to a whole new version of reality. I think maybe most people grow up believing life as they've experienced is the way things are and it's "normal". Turns out things can be a lot of different ways & changing things up is an actual possibility.

There are a lot of "supporters" here who've had that conversation and I hope they can give you some ideas you can use. In my own case, there came a point where I decided that doing things the way I always had hadn't worked real well & maybe it was time to try something different. I looked around online for a T in this area who seemed ok & sent him an email before I had a chance to change my mind. As luck would have it, he answered his own emails & he answered right away, before I had a chance to change my mind.

Good luck to both of you!
 
I don't think that's stupid. It's understandable. But, you're also right about it being hard to have that conversation during a crisis.

I can really relate to that. Working with my therapist (and like I said, he was good at his job & that matters a LOT) was like opening a door to a whole new version of reality. I think maybe most people grow up believing life as they've experienced is the way things are and it's "normal". Turns out things can be a lot of different ways & changing things up is an actual possibility.

There are a lot of "supporters" here who've had that conversation and I hope they can give you some ideas you can use. In my own case, there came a point where I decided that doing things the way I always had hadn't worked real well & maybe it was time to try something different. I looked around online for a T in this area who seemed ok & sent him an email before I had a chance to change my mind. As luck would have it, he answered his own emails & he answered right away, before I had a chance to change my mind.

Good luck to both of you!
Thank you so much for sharing your experience with me. It gives me hope that things can change for him, which would be great, because he doesn't deserve (I mean none of us do...) to carry this burden around. I'm really glad that you found someone who is a good fit for you that can help you.
 
I can't do it when he is completely closed down, because nothing will get through right now.
within my own episodes, the tidbits which do get through from well-meaning friends, lovers and family all too often mix with psychosis on their way to my logic center. kinda like eating a super healthy meal while i am combating influenza? the episode over stimulates me, all by itself. calm before wisdom. avoiding still more over-stimulation is my number one reason for isolating while i am in episode. good, bad or indifferent, more stimulation is not better when my nerves are already overloaded.
When he is feeling better I never want to rock the boat, but that is probably a bit stupid really.
may i change the word, "stupid" to "ignorant" with the addendum that ignorance is far easier to fix than stupidity? none of us is born knowing everything and it is always a good day to learn. when i am calm and rational is the best time for me to talk about ^it^. learning how to talk about ^it^ without spoiling the party advances my healing hopes more than any other pill i have ever swallowed. the past doesn't need to be a melodrama, even when it is ugly.
 
within my own episodes, the tidbits which do get through from well-meaning friends, lovers and family all too often mix with psychosis on their way to my logic center. kinda like eating a super healthy meal while i am combating influenza? the episode over stimulates me, all by itself. calm before wisdom. avoiding still more over-stimulation is my number one reason for isolating while i am in episode. good, bad or indifferent, more stimulation is not better when my nerves are already overloaded.

may i change the word, "stupid" to "ignorant" with the addendum that ignorance is far easier to fix than stupidity? none of us is born knowing everything and it is always a good day to learn. when i am calm and rational is the best time for me to talk about ^it^. learning how to talk about ^it^ without spoiling the party advances my healing hopes more than any other pill i have ever swallowed. the past doesn't need to be a melodrama, even when it is ugly.
Thank you. Yes, I think it's the same for him.

We are speaking on the phone again now, although it's mostly about work: he's still not in a great place but I'm happy I'm allowed to share it again, and I'll be back in a week, thank goodness.

I realized about my "stupidity" now that we are talking again with absolutely no mention of the fact that he wasn't speaking to me to the point of me not being able to do my job properly, is that it's hard to bring up when the general consensus now seems to be that that never happened.

(Also how two you reply to bits of things? Forum illiterate over here...)
 
it's hard to bring up when the general consensus now seems to be that that never happened.
"small steps, big faith and lots of prayer. let god lead the dance" is the mantra which has guided my hubs and i through this 44 year adventure. yes, it's hard to bring up, but? ? ? small steps, big faith and lots of prayer. itsy bitsy baby steps.
Also how two you reply to bits of things?
the quote function here supports multi-quotes. highlight and quote just the bit you want to reply to and repeat for the next bit. you can break them into bits all at once. no need to return to the post you are quoting. now i'm wondering if i can insert the multi-quote function into the psychotic convos with the love of my live. just wondering facetiously. . .
 
So I'm back from travel, and.....confused. He was able to talk to me on the phone again for several weeks before I came back, and I was looking forward to seeing him. However, since I've been back (just over a week now) he ignores any messages I've sent about meeting up, and when I've brought it up by phone he's avoidant. I did ask if "we were ok" and he got really agitated and started asking "what kind of a question is that?" at which point I backed off and said something along the lines of "I know you're not in a great place right now so I'm going to stick to talking about work" at which point he calmed down and we were able to have a perfectly normal conversation again. The times I've been in the same room as him it seems like it's too much and he doesn't want to be near me. Which really hurts as all I want is his arms around me.

I just don't know what to do and how long this is going to go on for. It's like over the years I've learned all kinds of different patterns and how they play out. In the past he wouldn't speak to me at all until he was ready, but once he was speaking to me, he was ready to come back to me. I don't know if now because we are working together, and because in a way he's made that commitment to me, he's actually working harder to speak to me sooner, and so it's a different dynamic, and that's a good thing, or it's just another sort of f*cked up purgatory that I have to work out how to get through.

What I really want is someone here tell me how to say the magic thing that will fix this!!! Which obviously is unreasonable, and the problem is, even if you recognize the behavior it might not be coming from the same place. I don't know. I'm tired, and I'm lonely. I just want to be wanted. Or even to be able to talk about this with him, but he's avoiding any other subject than work at the moment, and I don't want to push too hard.

I'm not sure if this is a rant or a question. Rambling. Sorry
 
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