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Hi @grit , I'm not sure I've quite had the same experience as you, or simply just from my own impression and personality a different one? But I agree with this:
.. but I see it in a little different fashion. For example, last night I had a horrendous night mare and woke up with heart racing. I thought, good 'ole ptsd. However, the nightmare included calling for help that didn't come (the police, in my nightmare). However, I also know:
a) it could be just coincidental, not because of a trigger
b) simply started with a racing heart, and filled in the details later.
c) a trigger
d) incidental subconscious details, from life, tv etc etc
e) a combination of b) and/or c) and/or d)
Regardless, the 'reactivity' and fact of it was as it has been with a typical nightmare, versus garden-variety. So, something I have to accept with ptsd. I went on to have coffee, eat cake for b/fast , run errands, birthday shop, and felt ~ok-ish, despite falling asleep after my alarm
Conversely, someone I don't want to have more to do with phoned my home today under a semi-false pretense, thankfully the person here did not give my cell number. After that I had (and have had) chest pains all day. That was a stressor. And I would say perhaps a consequence somewhat of my history, but not ptsd in my mind. I could say it is because of my history etc, but I am going to say: no, it's not.
So I have come to accept some things about ptsd and reactivity, that do not change much (after 36 years). But much more which I have control (and responsibility) to pick apart as my thoughts about it, post reaction.
^^ And in this way I would call it un-consciousness: ptsd equalling the part(s) beyond logic, reasoning, grief, or reconcilliation.
^^ Again, were this me, I would like think something following, like: "Why did I think that? Do I still harbor resentment? Do I need to grieve? What of my mother, was this too what she learned, or all she knew how? Is it changing today? Do I do this as well, but justify it under another guise? What then should I do differently? " Etc etc. (probably in the next 50-75 feet of walking.) So, to me, the feeling was caused by the trauma (involving the mother), the response is 'me'/ my responsibility and choice; my feelings and thoughts merely 'thinking', and analyzing, and being introspective. Looking at my own behaviour, and heart, and what I might need to change . Whereas, just for me, 'ptsd proper' would be the moment I see a mother and despite myself get chills or run from the park. Or choose to never go back to the park or avoid the park, a long while before ever connecting why.
To be clear, it may sound a 'downer' but I don't think I can 'cure' the ptsd part, not yet anyway- science doesn't know how. But good science doesn't just piece together what works but it looks for what does not yet exist.
I appreciate however how this is working and healing for you. :tup: For myself, I do not know if I even have the genetic constitution to ever relax in the way you describe, and I am inclined (by my thoughts and personality) to equate joy in my life in a safer, softer way, or with a greater degree of connectedness, but, tbh, I feel very grateful for that- despite or including the ptsd. Because even if one is playing on the best beach or playground, there's always a chance of stumbling on a nail or a rock or a piece of broken glass. But when in safety that's just, no big deal. So, I think it's possible to live with a high degree of satisfaction, even with ptsd, or most anything else (and if my mom was right, certainly not detrimental in her sex life with my dad :laugh: lol. Since- most importantly- they got along great outside of the bedroom, so in it was never an issue, the brain being the biggest sex organ after all. :) ) I don't think it's insane though: I think just as it's a normal response to an abnormal situation, it's still a normal response but to a way out of proportion degree, to a neutral or low level situation. Just as it's often described as an alarm going off too easily, and too quickly.
But also, I think if one is thinking in terms not what of what was done to them, but also what they've done to others, or how they've failed or fail others, it's a very different perspective again: they are not the 'wronged' one. In such ways ptsd is not created equal, even if the end result is the same. Or it's ptsd-with-a-twist-of-sour-lime on the side. :(
Similar with the reaction, say, to watching a heart-attack, and now jumping up when someone slumps or a noise is heard: you will do it even from a deep sleep- I did the other night. Because it has not been learned it has been lived/ experienced. That kind of thing, to me, is part of what makes ptsd, ptsd. It doesn't matter it's 'now'. 'Now' can become the same as then, in the blink of an eye. That's the knowledge one can't undo.
However, there also have been some moments (thankfully lesser, if I'm choosing more healthily and wisely) that ptsd reactivity has served me well- and prevented being raped quite a number of times, too. For me, that's ok. Under circumstances, it's useful. Training one's brain the everyday won't be crisis-laden, is the hard part IMHO.
So thank you @grit , and @scout86 and @EveHarrington ,, very much, because in some ways I've answered my own question(s) with your help and input: how to ask is to do it, clearly, and without expectation; who is who is trustworthy when you are healthy enough to assess that, and has proven so; when is when (I) am either able to manage the first two, or when the negative consequences of not asking at all outweigh the risks of asking.
..Until we accept that, I feel the post in PTSD will haunt us forever. Of course, there is life while we are in momentum from the last trauma and we may get many other Ts in the meantime still not landing from the first one. Or other non-trauma morbidity and health issues and life issues. It is complicated. But in order to heal from PTSD, one must accept unequivocally that whatever is ailing you is not happening right now…that pest POST.
.. but I see it in a little different fashion. For example, last night I had a horrendous night mare and woke up with heart racing. I thought, good 'ole ptsd. However, the nightmare included calling for help that didn't come (the police, in my nightmare). However, I also know:
a) it could be just coincidental, not because of a trigger
b) simply started with a racing heart, and filled in the details later.
c) a trigger
d) incidental subconscious details, from life, tv etc etc
e) a combination of b) and/or c) and/or d)
Regardless, the 'reactivity' and fact of it was as it has been with a typical nightmare, versus garden-variety. So, something I have to accept with ptsd. I went on to have coffee, eat cake for b/fast , run errands, birthday shop, and felt ~ok-ish, despite falling asleep after my alarm
Conversely, someone I don't want to have more to do with phoned my home today under a semi-false pretense, thankfully the person here did not give my cell number. After that I had (and have had) chest pains all day. That was a stressor. And I would say perhaps a consequence somewhat of my history, but not ptsd in my mind. I could say it is because of my history etc, but I am going to say: no, it's not.
So I have come to accept some things about ptsd and reactivity, that do not change much (after 36 years). But much more which I have control (and responsibility) to pick apart as my thoughts about it, post reaction.
IHMO, they should have called it consciousness
^^ And in this way I would call it un-consciousness: ptsd equalling the part(s) beyond logic, reasoning, grief, or reconcilliation.
Yes, many, I know we are all very different. One person I know is the adult child of a murder-suicide, and potentially very violent. The other is self-disclosed and meek. My dad, and his dad post-war, could both probably have qualified. A friend of mine's good friend has it and is very successful. Only ourselves know what is true, and neither dramatizing, minimizing, denying, or using as a crutch, or self-justification, or self-pity. I also know many who exhibit similarities without likely falling under a ptsd diagnosis. I think present, pervasive, and life-limiting all have to be considered.Now I have a question to ask you? Do you know anyone who has PTSD? Do you see their symptoms? How do you know that is a symptom of their PTSD?
^^You see, I would dig deeper than that: do you care what your T thinks? Why? Is that instead a function of shame? Or feeding denial? Etc etc. I.e. Not ptsd proper but one's own response to life, and taking responsibility.Let us say, I am thinking of my therapist and I am getting anxious about sharing something or being vulnerable…that is a symptom of my PTSD because on a good day, I never think of being vulnerable or sharing something. so I have the proof experience in life to contrast and compare.
If I see myself cursing on my mother while I walk in the park, com’n, no way that is sane…right so I put this under category PTSD.
^^ Again, were this me, I would like think something following, like: "Why did I think that? Do I still harbor resentment? Do I need to grieve? What of my mother, was this too what she learned, or all she knew how? Is it changing today? Do I do this as well, but justify it under another guise? What then should I do differently? " Etc etc. (probably in the next 50-75 feet of walking.) So, to me, the feeling was caused by the trauma (involving the mother), the response is 'me'/ my responsibility and choice; my feelings and thoughts merely 'thinking', and analyzing, and being introspective. Looking at my own behaviour, and heart, and what I might need to change . Whereas, just for me, 'ptsd proper' would be the moment I see a mother and despite myself get chills or run from the park. Or choose to never go back to the park or avoid the park, a long while before ever connecting why.
To be clear, it may sound a 'downer' but I don't think I can 'cure' the ptsd part, not yet anyway- science doesn't know how. But good science doesn't just piece together what works but it looks for what does not yet exist.
I appreciate however how this is working and healing for you. :tup: For myself, I do not know if I even have the genetic constitution to ever relax in the way you describe, and I am inclined (by my thoughts and personality) to equate joy in my life in a safer, softer way, or with a greater degree of connectedness, but, tbh, I feel very grateful for that- despite or including the ptsd. Because even if one is playing on the best beach or playground, there's always a chance of stumbling on a nail or a rock or a piece of broken glass. But when in safety that's just, no big deal. So, I think it's possible to live with a high degree of satisfaction, even with ptsd, or most anything else (and if my mom was right, certainly not detrimental in her sex life with my dad :laugh: lol. Since- most importantly- they got along great outside of the bedroom, so in it was never an issue, the brain being the biggest sex organ after all. :) ) I don't think it's insane though: I think just as it's a normal response to an abnormal situation, it's still a normal response but to a way out of proportion degree, to a neutral or low level situation. Just as it's often described as an alarm going off too easily, and too quickly.
But also, I think if one is thinking in terms not what of what was done to them, but also what they've done to others, or how they've failed or fail others, it's a very different perspective again: they are not the 'wronged' one. In such ways ptsd is not created equal, even if the end result is the same. Or it's ptsd-with-a-twist-of-sour-lime on the side. :(
Similar with the reaction, say, to watching a heart-attack, and now jumping up when someone slumps or a noise is heard: you will do it even from a deep sleep- I did the other night. Because it has not been learned it has been lived/ experienced. That kind of thing, to me, is part of what makes ptsd, ptsd. It doesn't matter it's 'now'. 'Now' can become the same as then, in the blink of an eye. That's the knowledge one can't undo.
However, there also have been some moments (thankfully lesser, if I'm choosing more healthily and wisely) that ptsd reactivity has served me well- and prevented being raped quite a number of times, too. For me, that's ok. Under circumstances, it's useful. Training one's brain the everyday won't be crisis-laden, is the hard part IMHO.
So thank you @grit , and @scout86 and @EveHarrington ,, very much, because in some ways I've answered my own question(s) with your help and input: how to ask is to do it, clearly, and without expectation; who is who is trustworthy when you are healthy enough to assess that, and has proven so; when is when (I) am either able to manage the first two, or when the negative consequences of not asking at all outweigh the risks of asking.
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