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Carl jung and the shadow self

Discussion in 'Miscellaneous' started by frogthroat, Mar 25, 2018.

  1. frogthroat

    frogthroat Well-Known Member

    Have any of you heard of the "shadow self?" It's a theory by Carl Jung about the darkness in other human beings. It's also one of the main plot points in the Mindhunter TV series. While serial killers display these personality traits to an extreme degree we all hold these dark characteristics.
    Do you believe the destructive side of your being is evil? Do you believe in evil? I'm curious to know. While it's easy to project your more lacking qualities to the scapegoat of your choice it's unsettling to realize that not everyone you've ever interacted with is a cartoonish representation of a deplorable trait.
    My mother's incest against my brother and I is deplorable but she was so much more than that. Do you feel that is the hardest part of getting through a trauma? When I realize my mother and the sadistic pedophiles I became intwined with were more than just a juxtaposition of a cartoon villain I become dusturbed.
    It's all very unsettling how the nature of sex, violence, and domination is a part of the human psyche.
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  3. somerandomguy

    somerandomguy Learning how to be myself Premium Member Donated

    I believe people do evil things, but no one IS evil. I don't believe anyone is good, either. We are empty vessels, acted on by circumstances beyond our control, and then we make choices based on our circumstances.
    Sietz and Hopeforlife like this.
  4. frogthroat

    frogthroat Well-Known Member

    @somerandomguy Idk if you ever watched the X-Files but if you did do you remember the episode with the Jewish golem? That's what I think of when I think of morality. I think people feel they have a set way to which they'll react to any circumstance. I've come to learn that when in an extreme circumstance you react in a way which is completely contradictory to who you think you are. When faced with the possibility of death you'll do whatever it takes to survive. That completely contradicts morality. Think of the Donner Party. I know because I've been incited to rape under threats of death. It just makes me wonder are we animals or are we worse?
    Ronin and somerandomguy like this.
  5. somerandomguy

    somerandomguy Learning how to be myself Premium Member Donated

    @frogthroat I'm one of the weird people who's never seen the X Files. Sounds interesting though!
    Ronin likes this.
  6. Sweetleaf

    Sweetleaf Well-Known Member

    @frogthroat do you mean like how abusers can have both the negative, bad, abusive qualities, but also positive or good qualities to them? Rather than all abusers just being 100% bad and evil 100% of the time like a cartoon character.
    EveHarrington likes this.
  7. frogthroat

    frogthroat Well-Known Member

    That but also that potential lies within everyone including yourself. Spooky right? Nothing is ever cut and dry.
  8. Mach123

    Mach123 I'm a VIP Premium Member Donated

    The therapist says I am 'Jungian' and that they would have a feild day with me and that I'm a shadow person. I love the x-files and know a lot of them by heart. 'Eve' is my favorite about the test tube identical twin serial killers. What a great show. I have to do some studying on Jung. I don't know anything about it.
    Ronin likes this.
  9. Laura Beth Myers

    Laura Beth Myers New Member

    I agree that under dire circumstances such as war and survival arenas, people can act in opposition to their character. But I don't want to take it too far. When the war's over, per se, I try to recall verses like Isaiah 29:16:

    You turn things around! Shall the potter be considered as equal with the clay, That what is made would say to its maker, "He did not make me"; Or what is formed say to him who formed it, "He has no understanding"?

    The golem is formed and can be quite mutable still. We can take away God's image by living amongst fellow humans in the earthy realm. And you're right, it's worse under threat of death. But it's up to us to maintain those higher virtues we still ascribe to ASAP when perilous circumstances no longer avail.

    I don't want the 'war' to pound me out--so to speak. And I don't want to excuse what I did 'in war' either. I want to understand & act correctly as soon as I can. When I do this, the trauma can go away because I've the power again to not be under the war's control.

    My therapist was fond of saying that many people were just one incident away from a nervous breakdown--but they would never know this, and neither would we. Laura
    mumstheword and Julesy like this.
  10. Ronin

    Ronin Dark Wings Premium Member

    Honestly I'm so over all of the fetishizing of serial killers, darkness, and so on.

    Has very little to do with people choosing crime, choosing abusing others, and a different lair from trauma circumstances altogether. It is not helpful to hand every immature asshole excuses with Oh, we are all dark and it is just more pronounced with some.

    But I'd very much like to see more research in vulnerable dark triad that isn't done on teenagers and substance using teenagers at that, while we are at clinically dark parts and constellations.
    Friday and somerandomguy like this.
  11. Journeyman

    Journeyman Active Member

    OK; now those are interesting ideas. Yeah, I do think that affects "trauma" . That your is duplicitous; a possible evil; possible, well your mother who maybe could be nurturing at times?
    Well, we all need to eat, and be carnivores. We are indoctrinated into it, and we really don't think about it most of the time, and becomes a part of us. It is a choice though. Some hunt though, and are very aware of the experience of hunting for game, vs. just the need. So, some that are pedophiles may have been indoctrinated in that way, but being molested does not equal "being a predator either". Maybe we all have potential, but not all choose to be "evil", either.
    MrMoonlight likes this.
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