Childhood COCSA (Child on Child Sexual Abuse) I don't know what to do with this information.

Twedont

New Here
I have been remembering some things lately and I don't know if I am the perpetrator or not. But I think I am the perpetrator because I am older than my cousin and I am not sure of others. There are so many things I don't remember, so there might be some inaccuracies.

I have always heard that most abusers in cocsa are usually influenced but I think I wasn't. The only situation I can say I was groomed was when my aunt(she is 6 or 7 years older than me) will come to my home and bath with I and my elder sisters who are twins and 3 years older than me. I remember that we would rub each others body but not anything too sexual. I also remember, being exposed to sexual contents and seeing my parents having sex.

I don't know when the cocsa started but I remember being 6/7 and I and my classmate playing with our private parts (no penetration). I can't determine who started it first because I can't remember. But I remember that I never protested to it.

Another scenerio is kissing a boy I was about 2 years older than at my mom's shop. It stopped there.

Another one was when I and my neighbours children touched each other. They are two sisters. I don't remember their ages but I do know I was older than the younger sister. We would touch our private parts and I can't remember what led to all this. I just remembered that we did it. I don't remember how long it went for.

Another is between I and my cousin who is three and eight months younger than me. I don't remember the things we did together but I felt that we did things together. The only one I remember is trying out something I watched on a movie with her. This action with my cousin made me believe I am the perpetrator. Since then I stopped any sexual activity, which was when I was 12.

Right now, I don't know if these actions contributed to my life negatively(I am 23 now). I hate people's touch, I swore off relationships because I can't stand being intimate with someone. I haven't had sex before and hate the idea of having one, so still a virgin. I know have PTSD even though I haven't visited a therapist before. I am awkward with witnessing a sexual activity whether in a movie or in real life but okay when I read it in a novel. I have turned into a recluse and don't like associating with people. But I usually think: why do I feel like this or I shouldn't be feeling like this when I am the perpetrator.

Sometimes I also wonder if I am the cause that my cousin is a hypersexual person. I am not sure but just the way she behaves made me determine that and I know she is on porn groups.

It's as if I need someone to sort out my thoughts for me and give me an answer because I don't understand.

Sometimes I just feel like a slut when I think that I did it with four different people. Not remembering much also adds to the frustration and guilt.
 

Friday

Moderator
I know have PTSD even though I haven't visited a therapist before
Because, at 23, with no formal education, training, or experience in trauma.. much less 12 years of school, medical school, and internship… CLEARLY you did a thorough DDX and ruled out every other possibility much less strong possibility.

None of which means that you don’t have PTSD, you may… but seeeeeriously… did you know that most of what you shared falls under “completely normal” early childhood experience. &/or that there are half a dozen common misdiagnoses for PTSD, and a couple dozen very possible related dx’s?

Are you pissed off, yet?

Good.

Get pissed off enough to take your brain -and your life- seriously.

Give it the same attention you would give a sore throat, or boo boo that needs stitches, AND SEE SOMEONE who is actually qualified to help you.

Yes. It will takes months.

Yes. It will be expensive as hell. ($700 min, just for bubble testing, severaL thousand for the medical work without insurance; or several more weeks/months on waiting lists if you get free healthcare w/ patience).

But it’s your brain. And your life. And deserves more respect than you’d give to the local OpEd, inspiring tweet, or exciting/infuriating prospect.
 

Twedont

New Here
Because, at 23, with no formal education, training, or experience in trauma.. much less 12 years of school, medical school, and internship… CLEARLY you did a thorough DDX and ruled out every other possibility much less strong possibility.

None of which means that you don’t have PTSD, you may… but seeeeeriously… did you know that most of what you shared falls under “completely normal” early childhood experience. &/or that there are half a dozen common misdiagnoses for PTSD, and a couple dozen very possible related dx’s?

Are you pissed off, yet?

Good.

Get pissed off enough to take your brain -and your life- seriously.

Give it the same attention you would give a sore throat, or boo boo that needs stitches, AND SEE SOMEONE who is actually qualified to help you.

Yes. It will takes months.

Yes. It will be expensive as hell. ($700 min, just for bubble testing, severaL thousand for the medical work without insurance; or several more weeks/months on waiting lists if you get free healthcare w/ patience).

But it’s your brain. And your life. And deserves more respect than you’d give to the local OpEd, inspiring tweet, or exciting/infuriating prospect.
To be sincere, I don't understand what you just wrote. Like, I literally don't understand.

Because, at 23, with no formal education, training, or experience in trauma.. much less 12 years of school, medical school, and internship… CLEARLY you did a thorough DDX and ruled out every other possibility much less strong possibility.

None of which means that you don’t have PTSD, you may… but seeeeeriously… did you know that most of what you shared falls under “completely normal” early childhood experience. &/or that there are half a dozen common misdiagnoses for PTSD, and a couple dozen very possible related dx’s?

Are you pissed off, yet?

Good.

Get pissed off enough to take your brain -and your life- seriously.

Give it the same attention you would give a sore throat, or boo boo that needs stitches, AND SEE SOMEONE who is actually qualified to help you.

Yes. It will takes months.

Yes. It will be expensive as hell. ($700 min, just for bubble testing, severaL thousand for the medical work without insurance; or several more weeks/months on waiting lists if you get free healthcare w/ patience).

But it’s your brain. And your life. And deserves more respect than you’d give to the local OpEd, inspiring tweet, or exciting/infuriating prospect.
Are you saying I should not diagnose myself, visit a therapist and stop thinking into it too much and get out of my head?
 

joeylittle

Administrator
Are you saying I should not diagnose myself
Yes, that's what @Friday is saying.
visit a therapist
Yes. And bear in mind that not all therapists are qualified to offer a diagnosis; so, research what level of licensed mental health practitioner is qualified to diagnose (where you live). See someone who has the training and experience to help you.
and stop thinking into it too much and get out of my head?
Also, yes.
I don't know when the cocsa started but I remember being 6/7 and I and my classmate playing with our private parts (no penetration). I can't determine who started it first because I can't remember. But I remember that I never protested to it.
This is not automatically child-on-child sexual abuse. Children, yes. Sex organs, yes. Abuse? Not clear at all.

But once you make that assumption, everything will begin to look like abuse.

Clearly, you're struggling and upset about how these events have impacted your life... And that's enough reason to go and see someone who can really help you, not start trying to figure this out on your own (with the help of the internet).
It's as if I need someone to sort out my thoughts for me and give me an answer because I don't understand.
A good therapist will give you a framework to help you find the answer for yourself. It takes some trial and error to find the right one. But in your particular situation, I would strongly recommend you seek professional help.

A qualified psychiatrist, psychologist, or upper-level therapist with diagnostic qualifications can give you an assessment, based on an extensive interview and questionnaire process.
 

Twedont

New Here
Yes, that's what @Friday is saying.

Yes. And bear in mind that not all therapists are qualified to offer a diagnosis; so, research what level of licensed mental health practitioner is qualified to diagnose (where you live). See someone who has the training and experience to help you.

Also, yes.

This is not automatically child-on-child sexual abuse. Children, yes. Sex organs, yes. Abuse? Not clear at all.

But once you make that assumption, everything will begin to look like abuse.

Clearly, you're struggling and upset about how these events have impacted your life... And that's enough reason to go and see someone who can really help you, not start trying to figure this out on your own (with the help of the internet).

A good therapist will give you a framework to help you find the answer for yourself. It takes some trial and error to find the right one. But in your particular situation, I would strongly recommend you seek professional help.

A qualified psychiatrist, psychologist, or upper-level therapist with diagnostic qualifications can give you an assessment, based on an extensive interview and questionnaire process.
Okay. Thank you so much. Right now, I don't have the means to get a psychiatrist. If you don't have money, no psychiatrist. Thank you so much for the advice.
 

Mach123

MyPTSD Pro
Yes, that's what @Friday is saying.

Yes. And bear in mind that not all therapists are qualified to offer a diagnosis; so, research what level of licensed mental health practitioner is qualified to diagnose (where you live). See someone who has the training and experience to help you.

Also, yes.

This is not automatically child-on-child sexual abuse. Children, yes. Sex organs, yes. Abuse? Not clear at all.

But once you make that assumption, everything will begin to look like abuse.

Clearly, you're struggling and upset about how these events have impacted your life... And that's enough reason to go and see someone who can really help you, not start trying to figure this out on your own (with the help of the internet).

A good therapist will give you a framework to help you find the answer for yourself. It takes some trial and error to find the right one. But in your particular situation, I would strongly recommend you seek professional help.

A qualified psychiatrist, psychologist, or upper-level therapist with diagnostic qualifications can give you an assessment, based on an extensive interview and questionnaire
Because, at 23, with no formal education, training, or experience in trauma.. much less 12 years of school, medical school, and internship… CLEARLY you did a thorough DDX and ruled out every other possibility much less strong possibility.

None of which means that you don’t have PTSD, you may… but seeeeeriously… did you know that most of what you shared falls under “completely normal” early childhood experience. &/or that there are half a dozen common misdiagnoses for PTSD, and a couple dozen very possible related dx’s?

Are you pissed off, yet?

Good.

Get pissed off enough to take your brain -and your life- seriously.

Give it the same attention you would give a sore throat, or boo boo that needs stitches, AND SEE SOMEONE who is actually qualified to help you.

Yes. It will takes months.

Yes. It will be expensive as hell. ($700 min, just for bubble testing, severaL thousand for the medical work without insurance; or several more weeks/months on waiting lists if you get free healthcare w/ patience).

But it’s your brain. And your life. And deserves more respect than you’d give to the local OpEd, inspiring tweet, or exciting/infuriating prospect.
It’s not completely normal.

Yes, that's what @Friday is saying.

Yes. And bear in mind that not all therapists are qualified to offer a diagnosis; so, research what level of licensed mental health practitioner is qualified to diagnose (where you live). See someone who has the training and experience to help you.

Also, yes.

This is not automatically child-on-child sexual abuse. Children, yes. Sex organs, yes. Abuse? Not clear at all.

But once you make that assumption, everything will begin to look like abuse.

Clearly, you're struggling and upset about how these events have impacted your life... And that's enough reason to go and see someone who can really help you, not start trying to figure this out on your own (with the help of the internet).

A good therapist will give you a framework to help you find the answer for yourself. It takes some trial and error to find the right one. But in your particular situation, I would strongly recommend you seek professional help.

A qualified psychiatrist, psychologist, or upper-level therapist with diagnostic qualifications can give you an assessment, based on an extensive interview and questionnaire process.
Why don’t you think its automatically cocoa? It automatically points to it imo and my therapist who is a specialist would concur .

Okay. Thank you so much. Right now, I don't have the means to get a psychiatrist. If you don't have money, no psychiatrist. Thank you so much for the advice.
I hope you find someone who can help you with sorting this out it’s extremely difficult. Finding qualified trauma therapy is practically impossible in my opinion.
Thank you for posting . Many survivors never make it as far as you have .
 
Last edited by a moderator:

joeylittle

Administrator
Why don’t you think its automatically cocoa? It automatically points to it imo and my therapist who is a specialist would concur .
I was very specifically responding to this statement:
I don't know when the cocsa started but I remember being 6/7 and I and my classmate playing with our private parts (no penetration). I can't determine who started it first because I can't remember. But I remember that I never protested to it.
The OP doesn't say they experienced it as abuse, doesn't refer to discomfort, or internal conflict of any kind. The OP didn't include anything about their subjective experience except remembering that they didn't protest.

You might be assuming "didn't protest" means that they were uncomfortable. I'm not making that assumption.

If they WERE uncomfortable, on ANY level - if there was guilt, or shame, or fear, or even a feeling they can't name....that would start to make the story different.

But the OP didn't say how they felt. Therefore it's not automatically abuse, just because it involved private parts. And it could have been abuse WITHOUT involving private parts. I think people do themselves a disservice when they abuse has to involve the groin area. That's all.
 
N

Nyoom

Personally, I am unsure as to if it would be considered COCSA as there are too many details missing, but regardless of labels, if it is effecting your emotions and function, you have every right to feel that way and seek help in the ways that are available to you. It may be worth discussing with 24/7 rape counselling lines, or access charities involved in providing counselling to disadvantaged people. If it hurt you, it hurt you. Frankly, even if it was the most textbook COCSA case in the world, you'd probably still have doubts. I went through pretty textbook COCSA, penetrated without my consent and said no multiple times on multiple occasions, but was coerced, manipulated and even had threats thrown my way until I did it, from the ages of 6-7, when I didn't know what was happening. Only thing that makes it less black and white was we were the same age, but what happened still falls under COCSA. I've been assessed by therapists as having high levels of trauma related distress, and while not diagnosed with PTSD officially, I displayed lots of symptoms, especially when I was younger (less of an issue these days, I only get flashbacks when triggered, don't get many nightmares, less hypervigilant, etc etc. Still have some issues, but not enough for me to want to seek diagnosis). But I constantly have panic attacks on if it "counts" or if I have a right to feel that way, when frankly, the labels are not what matters. If you are effected badly by something, then you have every right to seek help for it.

Regardless of labels or if it is abuse, if you're hurting and struggling to process something then you shouldn't feel bad about that. Different people naturally have different thresholds for what effects them like that, and that's fine. It's not weakness, or attention seeking as some like to claim, it's just how you were made. Recovery will help you build resilience and gain more control over those emotions, and help you move on from the event. As for the self diagnosis part, I understand you may not be able to seek help right now, but depending on where you live there may be services that provide it for free. I live in the UK, and we have various free services for survivors. I had therapy through a charity that works with the NHS (at the time had a shorter waiting list than CAHMS, but covid did a number on them so its now like, 1-2 years long) and got trauma therapy through a local rape counselling charity (6 month waiting list, but my case was prioritised because I was assessed for high levels of trauma related distress and in addition was willing to do it online since I had had online therapy before during covid and I found it effective with the right therapist.). My trauma therapist was amazing and really helped me out, and honestly changed my life and now I intend to set up a fundraiser for the charity as a thank you and to make sure others can access their services, once I am settled into uni. I strongly suggest looking into if your area has services like that. If not, there may be online or phone options, such as RAINN (they have a 24/7 rape crisis hotline, perhaps you can get advice from them). I think it's ok for people to self diagnose, to an extent. I apparently have textbook OCD, but I came to that conclusion after discussions with therapists (who cannot diagnose OCD) and others with OCD who I discussed my symptoms with. It's hard to get diagnosis in my area and I can't afford to go private, waiting lists are years long. But I spoke to my GP, who prescribed me with medications that not only treat OCD, but also anxiety and depression, things I am diagnosed with. So, while I'd suggest you'd stay open to other options (for example, my OCD symptoms could also be a weird form of anxiety, or even a trauma response from my childhood) and perhaps describe your experience more like "I have symptoms of PTSD" or "I strongly believe I have PTSD" top avoid controversy. But I believe if one thinks a label fits their experience and they have done lots of research into it, as well as making sure they aren't spreading misinformation, there's not much wrong with self diagnosis, though one should always seek diagnosis if able.

Regardless, I sincerely hope you are able to recover from whatever you're going through. Have a nice day/night :)
 

Sideways

Moderator
there's not much wrong with self diagnosis,
There is. Self-diagnosis is better called a "guess". PTSD is not something to guess about - it is a serious medical condition causing significant dysfunction that requires specialised treatment.

But - you don't need PTSD to justify reaching out for help. You don't need a diagnosis at all. If something is causing distress, and interfering with your ability to function, or enjoy or meaningful life? It doesn't matter if it's PTSD or a cold or sore knee - get qualified support because life doesn't need to be that awful.
 

Twedont

New Here
Personally, I am unsure as to if it would be considered COCSA as there are too many details missing, but regardless of labels, if it is effecting your emotions and function, you have every right to feel that way and seek help in the ways that are available to you. It may be worth discussing with 24/7 rape counselling lines, or access charities involved in providing counselling to disadvantaged people. If it hurt you, it hurt you. Frankly, even if it was the most textbook COCSA case in the world, you'd probably still have doubts. I went through pretty textbook COCSA, penetrated without my consent and said no multiple times on multiple occasions, but was coerced, manipulated and even had threats thrown my way until I did it, from the ages of 6-7, when I didn't know what was happening. Only thing that makes it less black and white was we were the same age, but what happened still falls under COCSA. I've been assessed by therapists as having high levels of trauma related distress, and while not diagnosed with PTSD officially, I displayed lots of symptoms, especially when I was younger (less of an issue these days, I only get flashbacks when triggered, don't get many nightmares, less hypervigilant, etc etc. Still have some issues, but not enough for me to want to seek diagnosis). But I constantly have panic attacks on if it "counts" or if I have a right to feel that way, when frankly, the labels are not what matters. If you are effected badly by something, then you have every right to seek help for it.

Regardless of labels or if it is abuse, if you're hurting and struggling to process something then you shouldn't feel bad about that. Different people naturally have different thresholds for what effects them like that, and that's fine. It's not weakness, or attention seeking as some like to claim, it's just how you were made. Recovery will help you build resilience and gain more control over those emotions, and help you move on from the event. As for the self diagnosis part, I understand you may not be able to seek help right now, but depending on where you live there may be services that provide it for free. I live in the UK, and we have various free services for survivors. I had therapy through a charity that works with the NHS (at the time had a shorter waiting list than CAHMS, but covid did a number on them so its now like, 1-2 years long) and got trauma therapy through a local rape counselling charity (6 month waiting list, but my case was prioritised because I was assessed for high levels of trauma related distress and in addition was willing to do it online since I had had online therapy before during covid and I found it effective with the right therapist.). My trauma therapist was amazing and really helped me out, and honestly changed my life and now I intend to set up a fundraiser for the charity as a thank you and to make sure others can access their services, once I am settled into uni. I strongly suggest looking into if your area has services like that. If not, there may be online or phone options, such as RAINN (they have a 24/7 rape crisis hotline, perhaps you can get advice from them). I think it's ok for people to self diagnose, to an extent. I apparently have textbook OCD, but I came to that conclusion after discussions with therapists (who cannot diagnose OCD) and others with OCD who I discussed my symptoms with. It's hard to get diagnosis in my area and I can't afford to go private, waiting lists are years long. But I spoke to my GP, who prescribed me with medications that not only treat OCD, but also anxiety and depression, things I am diagnosed with. So, while I'd suggest you'd stay open to other options (for example, my OCD symptoms could also be a weird form of anxiety, or even a trauma response from my childhood) and perhaps describe your experience more like "I have symptoms of PTSD" or "I strongly believe I have PTSD" top avoid controversy. But I believe if one thinks a label fits their experience and they have done lots of research into it, as well as making sure they aren't spreading misinformation, there's not much wrong with self diagnosis, though one should always seek diagnosis if able.

Regardless, I sincerely hope you are able to recover from whatever you're going through. Have a nice day/night :)
Thank you so much. I am going to take your advice and try to get better. I still keep trying to think about it and dig deeper but everything seems blurry. I even told my mom but she said I shouldn't think too much about it but I have always been an over thinker and when I do, I think of different things that might have happened or didn't happen. I work myself up over things a lot, and I am trying to calm myself and focus on the present. Before I even remembered those things I already knew that I wasn't alright psychologically because I have problems functioning in society and I can't tell my parents because I come from a country that doesn't care about mental health. I even tried hinting to my mom that I am not okay but they all thought I was joking. I am not sure if I will be able to find those types of free help lines you mentioned but I will look for one and try to help myself.

Thank you once again.
 
N

Nyoom

There is. Self-diagnosis is better called a "guess". PTSD is not something to guess about - it is a serious medical condition causing significant dysfunction that requires specialised treatment.

But - you don't need PTSD to justify reaching out for help. You don't need a diagnosis at all. If something is causing distress, and interfering with your ability to function, or enjoy or meaningful life? It doesn't matter if it's PTSD or a cold or sore knee - get qualified support because life doesn't need to be that awful.
Of course, I agree with the overall sentiment of your response. What I meant about the self diagnosis stuff though, is if someone were to have done extensive research on PTSD, and feels as though their experience strongly aligns with PTSD, then I feel its ok for them to describe their experiences as PTSD when talking about it online or with friends. It may be a guess, but it's an educated guess. Obviously, if their statement is made without a lack of research and as a result are spreading misinformation, then I see an issue with it. But if someone is genuinely displaying various symptoms of PTSD but are unable to seek professional diagnosis for whatever reason, if they want to describe their symptoms and experience as PTSD flippantly in an online discussion, I genuinely don't mind, however I truly understand why someone else would. But, if someone is making an educated guess, without official diagnosis, I do understand if it'd be easier to just say they have PTSD when discussing it in particular contexts. With me, for example. I have been in therapy a few times, and in trauma therapy was given a few assessments of my mental health. 3 of these were in relation to trauma symptoms and are often used to gauge if someone has PTSD, but are not an official diagnosis and more gives professionals an insight as to if PTSD is likely, rather than a diagnosis itself (My therapist was using it as a measure to see how I progressed through our sessions). I remember I scored 44 on the IES-R, 7 out of 10 on a different scale I can't for the life of me remember the name of, and 60 something on another. On the IES-R, a score of 33 or above is a good indicator the person may have PTSD, 37 and above is almost a definite, 6 and above on the other one suggests the same thing, and the last one was one we used only twice so honestly I remember absolutely nothing about, but I do know it was pretty high scale wise. Now, I acknowledge this isn't an official diagnosis, and when I discuss my symptoms I usually describe it as, "I have high levels of trauma related distress" or "I show many symptoms of PTSD but am not officially diagnosed". But if someone else were in the same situation as me, I wouldn't judge if they dropped the formalities and just said they had PTSD. And with my close friends, who also have been in similar positions and who I understand the boundaries of and the attitudes of, I would just say "My PTSD has been bad lately" instead of "My PTSD symptoms have been bad lately", since they would know what I mean. I guess I'm a bit biased, but it doesn't bother me. Mostly cos it seems inconsequential to me, if its just online or with friends and they're not really an influential figure. It just doesn't seem like it'd have much impact, especially if they are heavily educated on the subject.

But regardless, I do understand why you may have a differing perspective, so if you disagree I totally understand and would like to hear why you disagree if you want to discuss further :) If you are officially diagnosed, I'd imagine you would feel a lot more reserved with someone without an official diagnosis claiming they have the disorder you do have, in regards to accepting their perception of their emotions, and that's ok. This is just my personal perspective on the issue :) Apologies if I rambled or if there's any spelling/grammar errors, I just got back from a night out and am a bit tipsy, lol. Hope you're having a good day, and if not, that you will get many good days in the future.
 
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