Childhood COCSA within family

[bluemoon_]

So I haven't shared this with anyone ever and I'm not sure if anyone will understand or make sense of this but here it goes...

At the age of 4, I was introduced to the idea of sex. My uncle, who is 4 years older than me ( so 8 at the time) got along really well. We would play video games in his room when I would go to my nans house after school. But one day he said he found a "weird" movie in my other uncles room, and me being curious I wanted to know what the movie was. It turned out to be a porn movie, and obviously being as young as I was I was just confused. He suggested that I copy what the female was doing to the male onto him (oral sex). I don't remember much after that, just that it happened a couple of more times after that, evidently stopping at the age of 8/9. The problem was, he wasn't the only one that introduced me, my older female cousin also did. When I use to go round her house for sleepovers as children we would 'play' with each other. I know it may seem crazy but at the time, these two people were essentially my 'favourite' people so I just thought it was a normal thing to do, and because of this, I did the same thing to my sister who is 4 years younger than me. That only happened twice (I was 8 and she was 4), but it's the moment that's affected me the most.

The fact that I copied what was being done to me on the person that I'm supposed to protect sickens me to the core every single day. I try to tell myself that we were both kids but I can't seem to escape the feeling that I'm a monster, a person that doesn't deserve love because of what I've done. It's hard to think of any good childhood memories even though I know deep down that despite the COCSA my childhood was amazing. I'm 21 now and the feeling of immense guilt happened at 16/17 when I finally stopped kidding myself into thinking everything that happened was a bad dream. I think about it everyday, flashback sort of memories, especially if I'm being intimate with a boy. I haven't seeked out therapy yet as I can't afford it at the moment but I do know I should go as It's affecting my everyday life, including uni work and relationships. I'm not sure how to cope with this trauma, I think about suicide everyday because of it. My brain just can't seem to make any sense of it. On top of everything the relationship I have with my sister currently isn't good, I was horrible to her throughout my teenage years and we would argue a lot, but now we don't argue, we just don't talk. Whenever I see two little sisters playing and being happy together it causes a huge lump in my throat because I wish that was me and my sister, but because of what's happened between us I don't think we could have any sort of relationship, every time she looks at me I feel like she thinks I'm disgusting and hates me, but I wouldn't blame her because that's exactly how I feel about myself.

Growing up I thought I didn't belong here, like I was put here by mistake and I ruin people's lives and I still do think that. I thought I was a weirdo and that if anyone was to find out about what happened then they'd hate me, so I kept it to myself, unknowingly making it way harder for myself. I feel weird and out of place at family parties, I hate going to them.

Is there any suggestions or advice anyone could please give? I don't think I can go on much longer like this.

 

[anthony]

Hi. I want to just say, well done on getting this out of your head. That is step one to helping yourself.

I want to quickly comment on your rationale on these matters. COCSA - what you have explained is not that. Sexual abuse by definition has a liability to it, being that persons know better, ie. typically a teenager who knows better, doing these things to a 4 year old. That is COCSA.

Did you think that your cousin had the same thing done to him? You repeated this process on your sister, 8 and 4, as he did with you, 8 and 4.

You know there is normal childhood exploration, as you outlined, and that really is what this is at those ages. Look, yes, these ages are young and more innocent than anyone wants sexual anything being introduced, but there is that innocence of not knowing any different. Until you do! When you do, that is where the guilt comes from that you have. But it is just that, exploration between kids not knowing any better at the time.

Best thing you could do, is talk to your sister about this. Ask her what she remembers. Tell her exactly what you said above. You aren't talking as it is, so its not like this is going to make that situation worse. Nothing may change in the relationship, or everything may change in the relationship.

Because its bothering you to the point of suicide, get it out in the open, starting with her. Kids exploring sex is very normal. Its when you have kids (teens) exploring sex with young kids who don't know better, and the teen does. That is sexual abuse. There really is a difference.

Don't align the guilt you feel as facts of the situation all these years later. I'm not trying to tell you to just let it all go. You feel what you feel. So get it out in the open and see what happens with your sister. Tell her what happened to you and that you thought it was normal.

This stuff is called a cycle for a good reason. Most of us have explored sex at young ages with others of similar age. Very normal. It's only when older does it become abuse, where consent is known and abused. Young kids exploring sex are typically all consenting, because they don't know better, being all involved don't know any different. As we age we become learned with what is societally appropriate and not appropriate. Until then, its all just normal.

Define normal?

 

[bluemoon_]

Hi. I want to just say, well done on getting this out of your head. That is step one to helping yourself.

I want to quickly comment on your rationale on these matters. COCSA - what you have explained is not that. Sexual abuse by definition has a liability to it, being that persons know better, ie. typically a teenager who knows better, doing these things to a 4 year old. That is COCSA.

Did you think that your cousin had the same thing done to him? You repeated this process on your sister, 8 and 4, as he did with you, 8 and 4.

You know there is normal childhood exploration, as you outlined, and that really is what this is at those ages. Look, yes, these ages are young and more innocent than anyone wants sexual anything being introduced, but there is that innocence of not knowing any different. Until you do! When you do, that is where the guilt comes from that you have. But it is just that, exploration between kids not knowing any better at the time.

Best thing you could do, is talk to your sister about this. Ask her what she remembers. Tell her exactly what you said above. You aren't talking as it is, so its not like this is going to make that situation worse. Nothing may change in the relationship, or everything may change in the relationship.

Because its bothering you to the point of suicide, get it out in the open, starting with her. Kids exploring sex is very normal. Its when you have kids (teens) exploring sex with young kids who don't know better, and the teen does. That is sexual abuse. There really is a difference.

Don't align the guilt you feel as facts of the situation all these years later. I'm not trying to tell you to just let it all go. You feel what you feel. So get it out in the open and see what happens with your sister. Tell her what happened to you and that you thought it was normal.

This stuff is called a cycle for a good reason. Most of us have explored sex at young ages with others of similar age. Very normal. It's only when older does it become abuse, where consent is known and abused. Young kids exploring sex are typically all consenting, because they don't know better, being all involved don't know any different. As we age we become learned with what is societally appropriate and not appropriate. Until then, its all just normal.

Define normal?

Hi Anthony,

Thank you so much for your reply! Typing it and sending it was like a weight lifted of my chest. When you said it was just children experimenting and it is not in fact COCSA has really helped me and has really opened my eyes. However, I still can't escape this guilt feeling but hopefully as I progress this healing journey it will get better. The thought of having a conversation with my sister about it gives me really bad anxiety, especially because she's only 17 now, I guess I'm really just scared that if I was to bring it up then she might cut me off completely. But I do know that conversation needs to happen.

I guess I never really thought other children was going through what I went through, back in school I remember a girl mentioning 'sex' and my friends at the time were confused and started calling her weird, so I guess in a way that was when I started to feel 'not normal'.

 

[moonjuice85]

I'm so grateful for your courage bluemoon! Thank you for sharing. Your experiences and Anthony's perspective have added so much to my own. Re: guilt I hear you, it gets heavy and I have found that intellectualizing only gets me so far. I'd recommend building up a practice like yoga + journaling. Hip focused yoga really does it for me. Sending

 

[caroline_13]

I'm so grateful for your courage bluemoon! Thank you for sharing. Your experiences and Anthony's perspective have added so much to my own. Re: guilt I hear you, it gets heavy and I have found that intellectualizing only gets me so far. I'd recommend building up a practice like yoga + journaling. Hip focused yoga really does it for me. Sending

Hip-focused workouts are the best

 

[bluemoon_]

I'm so grateful for your courage bluemoon! Thank you for sharing. Your experiences and Anthony's perspective have added so much to my own. Re: guilt I hear you, it gets heavy and I have found that intellectualizing only gets me so far. I'd recommend building up a practice like yoga + journaling. Hip focused yoga really does it for me. Sending

I'm glad that I was able to help! Journaling is something I am definitely going to get into, I didn't know about yoga, thanks for the advice! Sending love also <3

Hip-focused workouts are the best

Thank you for the advice!!! Very much appreciated, I will give it a go <3

 

[Mach123]

Hi my story is similar to yours and I want you to know it’s very brave what you’ve done . I also want you to know it’s normal for you to feel the way you do and you’ll probably need help to process your feelings . A trauma therapist, as though finding one is easy .

But you said it out loud for other people to hear and this in my mind is undoubtedly the hardest step and you did it .

Judith Herman wrote a book called trauma and recovery which is still widely viewed (I think) as a ground breaking work on the subject . If you feel up to it you might try it or you might want to get with a therapist first idk .

I wish you well. It’s very hard stuff to have to go through and process but it has to come out and I feel from your post you’ve realized this .

What you described is in fact CSA. That’s my opinion but it’s not the opinion of everyone that is on here .

This could possibly be a resource

Taking Back Ourselves

takingbackourselves.org

 

[bluemoon_]

Hi my story is similar to yours and I want you to know it’s very brave what you’ve done . I also want you to know it’s normal for you to feel the way you do and you’ll probably need help to process your feelings . A trauma therapist, as though finding one is easy .

But you said it out loud for other people to hear and this in my mind is undoubtedly the hardest step and you did it .

Judith Herman wrote a book called trauma and recovery which is still widely viewed (I think) as a ground breaking work on the subject . If you feel up to it you might try it or you might want to get with a therapist first idk .

I wish you well. It’s very hard stuff to have to go through and process but it has to come out and I feel from your post you’ve realized this .

What you described is in fact CSA. That’s my opinion but it’s not the opinion of everyone that is on here .

This could possibly be a resource

Taking Back Ourselves

takingbackourselves.org

Hey Mach,

Thank you for your kind words! I will be purchasing that book, thank you for the advice. I have searched therapy that helps me process what I am going through but unfortunately I have not been successful. Can I ask why you might think it is CSA? As we were both children at the time so I myself don't really see it that way but I am interested on your take.

 

[Mach123]

I was guided to this conclusion by my therapist whose website I included . I have a diary here I’ve been journaling for ten years . It’s been really helpful. In all that material I’ve posited my theories. I hope the board proves a resource for you.

 

[beaneeboo]

Hi @bluemoon_

I agree with @Mach123 that what you describe in your experience is csa... cocsa is not well understood at all...I think in the next few years there will be more out there for people like yourself (and me) to go to to help understand their experiences...

I wanted to share this resource with you because I think it provided me with affirmation that my own experience was csa and has caused extensive damage to me... despite it being done by another child and no violence/ physical force being used...(go to the below link to click on the video) ...

Grounding techniques:

I love Kati Morton. She has a wide range of educational videos on therapy and trauma therapy specifically, and puts things in easy to understand terms... all sorts of topics which are interesting and a good place to start or be reminded of key points.

For anyone struggling with COCSA (I'm passionate about spreading this affirming and validating video given the unbelievable lack of resources out there on the topic) see her video below:

Whilst your descriptions of what happened when you were young may appear benign to some people, your body won't know the difference between boundary violation... the effects you describe of theCOCSA having on you now demonstrates trauma that needs to looked into before it causes ongoing problems in your life due to the deep shame you describe yourself as experiencing.

Don't let anyone tell you what your experience is or isn't. People can have opinions (like I'm telling you here) but only you can define your experience.

So go out and do that...

 

[beaneeboo]

Sorry for some reason I can't edit my above post. I meant to say there are 2 videos in the above post. I was meaning for you to watch the 2nd one. You'll have to expand the quoted post to see it

 

[Nyoom]

I want to quickly comment on your rationale on these matters. COCSA - what you have explained is not that. Sexual abuse by definition has a liability to it, being that persons know better, ie. typically a teenager who knows better, doing these things to a 4 year old. That is COCSA.

This is incorrect, as COCSA, or peer on peer abuse, does not need a set age difference. However, when between two younger children of the same age or simular ages, specific things need to be involved. The behaviour must be:

Adult sexual behaviour such as penetrative sex (oral, vaginal, or anal) or inappropriate touching,
The problematic sexual behaviour takes place across time and in different situations,
The other child shows a continuous disregard for the word "no"
The behaviour must have negative connotations to it (to humiliate or bully the victim, for example)
The behaviour uses force, fear, physical intimidation or emotional manipulation, bribery, and/or trickery to coerce another into the sexual behaviour.
And finally, the behaviour isn't corrected by efforts taken by adults (obviously omitted if no steps to stop the behaviour were taken).

This was paraphrased from Johnson and Doonan (2005), plus various sources of information I have gathered from sites like the NSPCC. Very few child psychologists will tell you the above behaviour is healthy for either children involved, and usually the abusive child needs help too. COCSA is complicated but it causes the same emotional damage as regular CSA according to the limited studies on the matter. I was a victim and what happened to me falls into the categories above. I still haven't healed. What he did to me was intentional in the sense he wanted to cause me harm. How much harm he was doing he couldn't possibly know, but he knew it made me uncomfortable and knew I didn't want to do what he had me do, but he found it funny and would humiliate me in front of his friend. Children cannot be held accountable for their actions to the same standard as adults, but we can recognise when they cause harm to other children and try to help both children in the situation. Like, with bullying, emotional or physical, what happened isn't erased because of the age of the other person that did it. Same with COCSA. With COCSA, the behaviours are still damaging and sometimes even abusive even when caused without the same intent as an adult. I should add, understanding of ones actions does not dictate if those actions are acceptable or good. For example, if a child was abused by a older person who had the mental age of a child. The older person may not understand what they were doing was wrong, and I wouldn't think they're a monster for what they did. But that child is still going to experience the consequences of that abuse, and that older person would still need to have some intervention to prevent something like that happening again. Sometimes, people don't understand when they're hurting another, but that doesn't mean that being hurt by it isn't real or unjustified.

Went on a tangent though. In terms of OPs situation, whether or not it'd be COCSA is complicated. With their younger sibling, the event was one off, brief experimentation, which I definitely wouldn't see as abusive. Their experiences with their older relatives is harder to pin point and ultimately is something that should be determined by them personally.