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Dissociation on eeg

Discussion in 'Dissociation, Depersonalization & Derealization' started by Swift, May 4, 2018.

  1. Swift

    Swift Well-Known Member

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    Hey all,
    So I've learnt something interesting recently.
    I'm doing neurofeedback, part of which involves measuring your brainwaves with a mini-EEG machine.
    So, dissociation can be seen when I do it on the screen, in real time. Everything just flattens right out - it's like my brainwaves completely stop. It doesn't look like sleep, in which the brain is still running, or passing out/coma, in which the "body" parts of the brain are working overtime and irregular.
    I asked my T if we could do an experiment today, because science.
    I've got a broken hand atm, and I know how to make it pretty painful.
    I wanted to see how physical pain would look on the EEG. She said yes, and that she was curious too. (It's unethical to inflict pain for the purposes of studying it in that setting, but it was my idea, I did it to myself and I was curious, therefore it was ethical.)
    Both of us theorized that the "body" measurement would spike, then a little brief burst of anxiety. (that could still be what happens with a regular brain, I don't know though.)
    Instead... I dissociated.
    Pain spiked briefly and then everything flatlined.
    Fascinating, huh?
    Anyway, just wanted to share that.
    It helped me to realize that it was quite so physical and observable.
     
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  3. MyWillow

    MyWillow Well-Known Member

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    Wow. As a scientist all I can say is COOL!!! That’s amazing!
     
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  4. bellbird

    bellbird Active Member

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    Interesting! Just out of curiosity, were you expecting to dissociate from the pain?
     
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  5. Sietz

    Sietz I'm a VIP

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    This is really cool! Is your body's way of giving you a "talk to the hand" reply lol
     
  6. LilyRose

    LilyRose Well-Known Member

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    Is neurofeedback working for you? I've heard about it before but its expensive so i wasn't sure if i wanted to try it.
     
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  7. Swift

    Swift Well-Known Member

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    @MyWillow , the whole thing is so interesting - just the system in neurofeedback, and the dissociation and how it appears in the brain. I used to do EEGs for a living, so I'm so fascinated by it too. If you have any more ideas, or questions, about it, or stuff you know that you'd like to share, I'd love to hear it.
    @bellbird, not at all! I was expecting a response that showed a spike in physical stuff, and then an anxiety response, and then watching my brain calm itself down. Neither me nor my therapist expected that! I just thought it would be interesting to see the brainwaves doing their thing. I was hoping for some info about healing. I've gotta say I was fairly excited to see what it did. Not in a million years would I have expected that. But I guess it was still interesting to learn.
    @Sietz, great pun!
    @LilyRose , yeah, it can be expensive, depending on where you're from.
    I'm an Aussie, and I'm technically "a victim of crime" or some shit. I only learnt this recently, but Victim's Services in Aus will pay for 20 sessions with an approved counsellor, and more depending. You don't even have to go to the cops. It's a 2 page PDF form, it's really simple. (It still took me two months to do.)
    There are some great books out there, though. I read "The Brain That Changes Itself" by some bloke, I think his first name was Norman, and also Neurofeedback for Developmental Trauma by Sebern Fisher, which was rad.
    If the pain was less extreme, just a mild physical pain, like a needle jab, I may have had a different reaction. A more typical "pain" reaction. As it is, I have two broken metacarpals where the bits are wired back together. My intention was to give myself a manageable amount of pain, and watch what it did on EEG, out of sheer curiousity.
    The pain from the hand is pretty bad, particularly when I make it hurt on purpose. I expected a "normal" pain response, but that's not what happened.
    Fascinating, though.
    I'm kinda looking at this from a scientific perspective, not a personal one. It's really interesting how the brain works, and what it does. Science is awesome.
    It's also really interesting to be able to run some experiments that would otherwise be completely unethical.
    I mean, you can't go around breaking people's bones to see how their brainwaves react.
    You certainly can't go around causing trauma patients pain to satisfy your intellectual curiousity.
    The whole point of a therapeutic relationship negates it.
    And I really, really respect my therapist for not doing it.
    I'd feel totally uncomfortable and weird and like I was being unethical if I was doing this to someone else, but the fact is, I did it to myself, my own idea, my own hand, my own pain-causing.
    I wonder what the whole thing would do with different kinds of stimuli. I'm super interested.
    The other thing I know is that my therapist would never experiment on me. She'd never even suggest an idea, because she's f*cking awesome.
    My main feeling is excited and interested about the whole thing.
     
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  8. shimmerz

    shimmerz My silence spoke a thousand words you never heard Premium Member

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    Norman Doidge. He is from Toronto, Ontario, Canada. He has done brilliant work. A great read that I highly recommend if you want hope for the future and great lessons on how to manipulate your own brain into getting healthy again.

    Thanks for this information. Fascinating.
     
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  9. bellbird

    bellbird Active Member

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    I totally get this. It's this unique situation where you get insight into an area where you normally couldn't. Thank you for sharing it with us :)

    My friend shared this as an audiobook with me a while ago, but I never got around to listening to it. Thanks for the recommendation.
    I'm also partway through "Rewiring Your Anxious Brain" https://www.audible.com.au/pd/Healt...z8-wrM8aJQY93CZs--YaAg6CEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds it's pretty good too. It helps, sometimes, to remember that mental phenomena have an underlying physical mechanism. Otherwise, they can just seem so untouchable (not sure if that's the right word, but I think it gets across what I'm trying to say).
     
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  10. MyWillow

    MyWillow Well-Known Member

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    @Swift slightly OT but there are some fascinating EEG studies on lambs that Massey Uni in NZ did. Basically in very young lambs the nervous system is not complete so the theory is that tail docking should not elicit a pain response (and given that 1-2 day old puppies are less developed the same would apply). However! What they found was that if you gave them a GA they still registered pain subconsciously as seen by the EEG. If you gave them a GA plus pain relief the pain wasn’t registered at all. Amazing stuff. But wait there’s more ;) They found that animals that had a GA but no pain relief were more sensitive to pain as they got older. May not be a big deal for lambs bred for market. But what about dogs? The theory is also extended to baby boys who are circumcised. Studies have suggested that here is a strong correlation with circumcision and depression in teenage years. This stuff is amazing.
     
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  11. shimmerz

    shimmerz My silence spoke a thousand words you never heard Premium Member

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    They used to say this about infants too. That's why they performed operations on them without anesthetic. I was one of those infants. The study is rubbish. Whether the nervous system is developed or not, the body does feel a scalpel. Trust me.
     
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  12. Swift

    Swift Well-Known Member

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    @shimmerz , I have a mate who thinks he might be in the same boat.
    It's terrible that anyone could do do that to a sentient being.
     
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  13. shimmerz

    shimmerz My silence spoke a thousand words you never heard Premium Member

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    Yes, thank you Swift. I think I am most offended by the 'good science' that they talk about in relation to these findings.
     
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