Does God hate us?

HumbleOne

New Here
In 1963, my mother smothered me to death and then brought me back to life by smashing my face into the faucet in the bathroom sink. I have been asking the same question for 55 years that I believe most of us do …… why would God allow such horrible things to happen to an innocent child? Why did He hate me so much?

What I did not know then was that He had already drawn out my escape plan. My brain was badly injured during the incident and when it started to heal I became a savant. In eighth grade, my math teacher caught site of my abilities and, as the rest of the kids were learning algebra, I taught myself calculus. Professionally, I achieved much, but I sucked at relationships because I knew no self worth. It was no coincidence that in 2012 I was introduced to the head of USC’s childhood trauma department. She was intrigued by my story and met with me for a year for no fee. In our last session, she suggested that I should forgive my family for what had happened. I asked her politely, “What is forgiveness?” She did not have an answer, so I had to get the answer myself.

This is what I learned. Forgiveness requires BLAME. We don’t excuse the people that hurt us, we blame them! Forgiveness is for our personal peace. When I forgive, I do not seek retaliation, I remind myself constantly that all humans are prone to error, and I find it somewhere in my heart to wish my enemies a good life. There is no law that states that we have to remain in a relationship with the ones that hurt us. Forgiveness is essential for maintaining inner peace.

This physical and emotional pain never seems to go away. I have lived a life full of anxiety and had to learn how to look at anxiety differently. Most people look at adversity as a negative: (-) Adversity (+) Solution = Nothing. That’s just wrong in reasoning and logic. Here is how I look at adversity: (+) Adversity (+) Solution = (+) Insight -or- (+) Adversity (+) Insight = (+) Solution.

God has never hated me. Yes, He gave me a hard story to walk through, but He also opened every door along the way in order for me to succeed. I don’t own my life. He does, and I know for certain that I have pleased Him. It’s all in our perspective of life. I have the right to be a victim but I refuse to be one. I am a conqueror and will remain acting like a conqueror for eternity. God wants us all to succeed, regardless of our beginnings. We are never alone.

Merry Christmas to all.
 
Or, very probably God never existed at all. You were unlucky enough to be born into a horrible family and then, through your skill and some luck, you escaped and made your life something good. No God necessary. Congratulations!
 

Weemie

MyPTSD Pro
why would God allow such horrible things to happen

Elie Wiesel summed it up best.

The question isn't 'where was God.' The question is, 'where were all the people?'

The hard truth is that we will never have an answer that is sufficient to explain why human beings treat one another this way. Our science determines some answers in neurophysiological divergence, but it does not qualitatively address the existential context for its results. In my religion, we have this concept called the "God Box." You have a box and you can pick 2 traits to put in the box: omniscient, benevolent, or omni-powerful.

You can only have two, you cannot have all three (if he is omniscient and omni-powerful, then he cannot be benevolent or else he would interfere in our affairs to suit his will and understand the precise outcome of every situation -> if he is omni-powerful and benevolent, he cannot be omniscient, because omni-benevolence is a binary decision predicated on lacking awareness of the outcome -> if he is benevolent and omniscient, he cannot be omni-powerful, or else once again -> you see how it goes.)

The dilemma of omnipotence is similar to another classic paradox—the irresistible force paradox: "What would happen if an irresistible force were to meet an immovable object?

Basically due to these paradoxes (and further of course into my favorite nonsense, quantum superimposition and quantum decoherence!) my "pick" for the box is that omniscience is to be left out. He has made mistakes before and apologized for them, admitting to others that he was wrong. If he were omniscient he would not have been wrong, he would have already known the correct answer. We have other evidence for this in terms of how he conducts tests (such as when he encounters "the adversary" who encourages him to test Job's faith in order to determine if it was legitimate or not), the rainbow as a symbol of an unbroken covenant to never again genocide the human species, and on and on.

For me, it has to be sufficient to understand that the evil that we perpetrate onto one another is a direct consequence of human freedom of determination ("free will.") How deterministic this is, depends on your definition (if one is born a psychopath, did they really have a choice? Some psychopaths can choose how they behave while others do not seem as capable, due to other mental illness, brain injuries, low IQ, FAS, etc.) But all of that is philosophical and somewhat solipsistic, and it does not keenly account for that which is at the heart of questions like this: what is the purpose, if any, of suffering?

Is God responsible for it and should he be tasked with alleviating it? Everyone will have a different outcome for how they move through those questions, up-to and including disregard of belief in God at all.
 
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EveHarrington

MyPTSD Pro
It’s possible to let go and move on from anger without actually forgiving someone. (I don’t “forgive” and yet I don’t seek out retaliation against people.)

I always find it interest that the definition of forgiveness constantly shifts. Why do others beg us for forgiveness if forgiveness is for us and not them? See? It makes no sense.
 

Tinyflame

MyPTSD Pro
Hi @HumbleOne . I am very sorry for what you've gone through as it is horrendous and unspeakable violence but glad you are healing and glad you found the forum.

This may not help or make sense (I need more coffee to find the words) but JMHO but it is my understanding, if you believe in Christainaity at least, that God is not apart from us but 'with us', literally and figuratively (and all animals too, which we seem to intuitively know). So that everything rejoiced or suffered God intimately rejoices with or suffers, too, as if one belives Jesus Himself suffered and was crucified. And like @Weemie said (sorry Weemie atm I may not be paraphrasing you entirely correctly) free will would prevent God from taking that will away. However, on the flip side as Elie Wiesel said, ~where are thhose who could stop it? Perhaps, flipping it, there needs to be prayers and accountability that others make kind, just and healthy decisions for those around them, or that others intercede when such horror is identified as possible, probable, or occurring. Yet much can be twisted or justified (by people) in the name of religion, or superiority, or indifference, or anything else we choose. The truth is, no one knows if God exists. We can only go by our own experience of life and be open to change our minds, and grow, and become kinder, gentler people who see with different eyes and help each other vs harm.

I think when it comes to (mis) understanding the Bible, there is often a forgetfulness of poetic prose, context, and more importantly progression. (For example, an eye-for-an-eye was ~'progress' for people without a working framework of justice; now an eye=for-an-eye is considered barbaric. Similarly, slavery gave security- one had some protection and a way to survive; now it is considered barbaric.) Our understanding of things like mental and physical illnesses similarly progresses (at one point 'hysteria' was considered caused from a 'wandering womb; AD(H)D was called 'minimal brain damage'; it was hypothesized sailors were getting syphlys from salt water, etc)

But yes, I can only say personally God seems to often provide many people or chances around me to try to dig me out of holes or help me heal or to spare me more. In fact, if I am even remotely mindful, I often have help or 'reminders' in many gentle ways to help me through a given day with what I need. (For that matter: what ~compels' someone to take a different route because they ave a ~'feeling', only to come upon someone they help with, for example, information, or a flat tire, or any number of things, minor to serious?)

I have received some great gifts because of incidences or traumas. And the gifts might have nothing to do with the traumas, but iif they hadn't occurred I would not have been where I was, in what need, when.

I also think, (un)fortunately, going through stuff enables us to sometimes understand (and potentially help) others who need that understanding.

JMHO. Welcome to you! 😉
 
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Tinyflame

MyPTSD Pro
PS, sorry for the typos, and I meant a 🙂 not a wink lol. 🙂
I feel like this: 🤯 in the mornings.

I guess this is it: according ro Christianity God is all love, there is nothing you can do to gain or lose that love. People, not so much. But forgiveness is a choice that never denies what the wrong was, or the forgiveness wouldn't even apply.
 
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HumbleOne

New Here
Or, very probably God never existed at all. You were unlucky enough to be born into a horrible family and then, through your skill and some luck, you escaped and made your life something good. No God necessary. Congratulation
Hi @HumbleOne . I am very sorry for what you've gone through as it is horrendous and unspeakable violence but glad you are healing and glad you found the forum.

This may not help or make sense (I need more coffee to find the words) but JMHO but it is my understanding, if you believe in Christainaity at least, that God is not apart from us but 'with us', literally and figuratively (and all animals too, which we seem to intuitively know). So that everything rejoiced or suffered God intimately rejoices with or suffers, too, as if one belives Jesus Himself suffered and was crucified. And like @Weemie said (sorry Weemie atm I may not be paraphrasing you entirely correctly) free will would prevent God from taking that will away. However, on the flip side as Elie Wiesel said, ~where are thhose who could stop it? Perhaps, flipping it, there needs to be prayers and accountability that others make kind, just and healthy decisions for those around them, or that others intercede when such horror is identified as possible, probable, or occurring. Yet much can be twisted or justified (by people) in the name of religion, or superiority, or indifference, or anything else we choose. The truth is, no one knows if God exists. We can only go by our own experience of life and be open to change our minds, and grow, and become kinder, gentler people who see with different eyes and help each other vs harm.

I think when it comes to (mis) understanding the Bible, there is often a forgetfulness of poetic prose, context, and more importantly progression. (For example, an eye-for-an-eye was ~'progress' for people without a working framework of justice; now an eye=for-an-eye is considered barbaric. Similarly, slavery gave security- one had some protection and a way to survive; now it is considered barbaric.) Our understanding of things like mental and physical illnesses similarly progresses (at one point 'hysteria' was considered caused from a 'wandering womb; AD(H)D was called 'minimal brain damage'; it was hypothesized sailors were getting syphlys from salt water, etc)

But yes, I can only say personally God seems to often provide many people or chances around me to try to dig me out of holes or help me heal or to spare me more. In fact, if I am even remotely mindful, I often have help or 'reminders' in many gentle ways to help me through a given day with what I need. (For that matter: what ~compels' someone to take a different route because they ave a ~'feeling', only to come upon someone they help with, for example, information, or a flat tire, or any number of things, minor to serious?)

I have received some great gifts because of incidences or traumas. And the gifts might have nothing to do with the traumas, but iif they hadn't occurred I would not have been where I was, in what need, when.

I also think, (un)fortunately, going through stuff enables us to sometimes understand (and potentially help) others who need that understanding.

JMHO. Welcome to you! 😉

Thank you for the warm welcome. The intent behind my original post was to give suicidal people some hope. My younger brother committed suicide on Dec. 1, 1978 and it tore my heart apart. This has become my life’s obsession ….. to share a message of hope. Each one of us is created for a reason and a purpose. How will we know what our purpose is if we turn our back on our Creator? Yes, life is hard; but, the harder the story, greater is His glory.
 

Friday

Moderator
This is what I learned. Forgiveness requires BLAME
It’s a very key point.

Having spent much of my childhood in Asia, I don’t really relate to the Christian concept/import of forgiveness.

My favorite definition of forgiveness has always been “Giving up all hope… for a better past.”

But? I think the blame component is an important distinction not contained in my favorite definition. Because a wrong has to have been both done AND acknowledged for forgiveness to exist at all. It requires a parenthesis. A required function for the equation to work.

TY for that.
 

HumbleOne

New Here
Mod Note:

Spreading hope around the forum is very welcome. We need as much of it as we can get. If it shifts into proselytising, that will be a problem. Please don't hesitate to Contact Us if you have any questions.

Welcome to the forum!
Thank you very much. I am not here to save the world. I am here to be a cheerleader for those who have suffered from CPTSD and to be a part of remarkable community that supports one another. I understand your concerns and will respect your wishes.
 

Weemie

MyPTSD Pro
an eye-for-an-eye

There are portions of the Torah that directly reference the Code of Hammurabi (the early laws upon which it was based - specifically punitive limb amputation) - it should be noted that "an eye for an eye" as per Leviticus does not refer to an individual taking revenge on another in a manner equivalent to how they were harmed (you took my eye, so I will take yours).

It actually means that if you hurt someone, you are responsible for compensating them fairly for that loss (if you take someone's eye, much like in our current legal system, there is a value associated to that loss and it is your responsibility to pay those reparations). Lev 21:23-25 contrast with Exodus 21:18-19 (which states if you injure someone but they retain their function, you still require to compensate them for lost time).

The overlap in Hammurabi and the Torah is fairly interesting but it is most likely the reason why these laws are similarly written. Aish goes into some more detail on the reasons why it is written out like this and the oral traditions that accompany these verses (for example, there is absolutely, positively, zero evidence that the Sanhedrin ever went around cutting off people's limbs or poking out their eyes).

We also have things like Urukagina, Ur-Nammu and plenty of others that suggest that it was a cultural precedent at the time (from roughly 2000 B.C onward) && not necessarily copies of one another.

My favorite definition of forgiveness has always been “Giving up all hope… for a better past.”

The only therapists I've ever had who focused on forgiveness were based on African models of therapy and specifically reintegration therapy, where religion and therapy have a huge overlap - religion in the community is so ubiquitous that ignoring it is illogical and even harmful. (Unlike my current therapist, who is completely and totally secular, we discuss religion on a regular basis [she asks me every single session if I've gone back to synagogue! Ha. The "community" part again] - but she is agnostic/atheist and does not communicate in these kind of specific, "spiritual" ways).

For me, forgiveness is definitely a spiritual concept; we spent a huge portion of time (me and B) trying to figure out "what forgiveness isn't" but had very little comprehension on what it actually is. It's not lack of accountability, it's not lack of justice, it's not lack of rationality or even safety - so what does it mean to forgive someone? It's not absolution, it's not moral acceptance of their actions or behaviors.

My answer ended up being that forgiveness is the ability to let go of resentment, bitterness and hatred, and to heal your life by understanding the causal linearity of circumstances that led to the other person's actions and choosing to reserve judgment for them. It doesn't mean they didn't hurt you, or that they aren't responsible, but you can focus on healing for yourself in spite of it.

(& trust me, I definitely did say, "well I do reserve judgment for people who torture children and violate their human rights and aggress against their neighbors and indiscriminately harm others in egregious and terrifying ways," but ... I mean, technically he's right -> it's not my role to judge. I am not God, I have no capacity to understand the full situation. So what can you do? Forgive the guy that literally ate babies because he "found Jesus"? I don't know, man. I'm still working on it.)
 
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