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Does this happen with your doctors? And, if so, do you mind?

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barefoot

MyPTSD Pro
I seem to have a lot of experiences with doctors that are somehow inappropriate – either physically or with boundaries or they are over-zealously helpful in a way that actually isn't etc. Not saying they are all abusive or terrible people doing something seriously wrong. Just that I seem to have more than my fair share of getting caught up in overstepping/weirdness (even if their intentions are clearly good).

Latest one:
I've been feeling dizzy and nauseous quite frequently over the past few months. Went to GP about it yesterday – a same day appointment, so I basically just saw whoever had a gap. Was a woman about my age, I hadn't seen her before, she seemed ok and nice enough.

She asked loads of questions, took my blood pressure, asked about my heart etc then said she's going to listen to my heart.

I was wearing a loose t-shirt with quite a deep scoop neck to make blood pressure/whatever else checks easily accessible. She stood in front of where I was sitting and said I'd need to lift my top up so that she could get to listen to my heart. I lifted my top up a bit, thinking she just needed to poke it up a bit. She said I had to lift it right up because she needed to put the stethoscope right under my left boob. So, I did that and was really aware that I was pretty exposed.

After a while she said she needed to listen higher on my chest, so I put my top down thinking she was just going to go down the front of my top. Because, the scoop of the neckline was fairly low so she would have only had to place it just under there to get to where she wanted to go. But she said, no, I had to lift my top right up, even higher.

So, I did that, lifting my top up from the bottom and pulling it right up so high that it's partly covering my face. My boobs are just completely out. Well, they're in underwear, not naked...but I was pretty much just sitting in my bra with my arms and top up over my head.
So that she could listen to my heart.

I felt really awkward. Stared at a spot on the ceiling. Probably had a bit of a freeze, thinking on it.

I'm not saying she was doing anything dodgy. I don't think she had any ill-intentions. I know that feeling exposed in medical settings is triggering for me because of old stuff, so there is that.

But I just don't get that. I don't get how it is necessary to have a patient pretty much just sitting in her bra for a good while so that you can listen to her heart?

And, thinking on it, I don't think the male GPs I've seen there would have done that. Because I think they would have been mindful of the fact that they're in a room on their own with a female patient and asking them to as good as take their top off for you to listen to their heart isn't really necessary. And, if it's not necessary because you can still listen to her heart without her sitting with her boobs out, it's probably inappropriate to ask her to do that.

I wonder if, as a female doctor, she just didn't think that there was any potential issue? So, she was perhaps less mindful than a male doctor may have been in that context?

As I say, I'm aware that I have issues with doctors/medical examinations etc from when I was a kid. So, I guess I am (overly?) sensitive to these kinds of situations and can find them triggering. And I am not suggesting for a moment that this doctor yesterday was dodgy in any way.

But it felt so exposing and shameful.

And I hate how, even though it felt unneccessary and even though I sat there thinking, 'I don't need to lift my top right up over my head – you can just put the stethoscope right underneath my neckline to be where you want to be' – I didn't say anything and I just pulled my top up. I really, really hate that that's how I respond.

Later, when I told my partner about it and showed her how far up I'd had to lift my top, she looked shocked. Then she said, 'What is it with you? Why do you always get all the weirdo doctors?'

My T has also said before that I have a habit of finding unfortunate doctors.

Trying hard not to go down that path of 'So, what is it with me?! Why do I attract these people?! Why do they act this way with me?!'

And also trying hard not to keep feeling furious with myself for always silently complying with doctors because I can't ever seem to stand up to them.

And, you know, if you all say that you always have to take your top off for a stethoscope because that's the only way they'll hear your heartbeat, then that's fine, that's ok...I don't have much experience with it so if I think it feels unnecessary but you all say that, actually, it is necessary, then I will know that that's expected.

Do things like this happen to you? And, if so, does it bother you?

I don't think the GP yesterday has done anything really wrong. But I do feel a bit upset by the experience. I guess I'm wondering if/how much I'm over reacting.
 
It sounds to me the doc did not do anything wrong as you also stated multiple times.
What it seems to and could be wrong is you are angry for not speaking up and asking her why? Or standing up for yourself in relatively safe environment.

Focus on your feelings rather than her? Focusing on her is distraction especially if you really feel you were not violated but you felt triggered or uncomfortable.

I think it is good for you to gently learn how to set your own boundaries rather than expect others to sort of guess.

This doesn't mean you were not made uncomfortable, it means you got scared to speak up.
 
Thank you @grit - you have really made me think.

you are angry for not speaking up and asking her why?

I haven’t really thought about it this way. In that, I haven’t really put the emphasis there. But...I suppose that maybe this is the key issue...

Or standing up for yourself in relatively safe environment.

I suppose it’s because a doctor’s room doesn’t feel like a safe environment. But not this doctor in this room...Though sitting there with her feeling unnecessarily exposed...it feels unsafe.

Focus on your feelings rather than her? Focusing on her is distraction

I need to think about this more.
Thanks
 
I guess I'm wondering if/how much I'm over reacting.
Your emotions are what they are. You felt embarrassed, and your emotions are valid.

This sort of stuff makes me feel really uncomfortable too. What I find helpful is to remind myself of a couple of things:
(1) if I need something diagnosed or treated, having good bedside manner isn't actually that high on my list of priorities for the doctor that's treating me; and
(2) while it's awkward and unusual for me, doctors have seen so many naked bodies during their training and practice that, most of the time, they're not paying the least bit of attention to how our body actually looks, or how being naked isn't comfortable.

It sounds like this doctor was trying to give you a thorough work up. Lots of doctors wave their stethoscope at your chest so quickly that they aren't actually listening to our heart and lungs in the way that is so very essential in a check up. They need to stop and really listen to do it properly, and too many of them don't.

So, perhaps reframe it as this particular doctor was far more concerned with getting a good idea of what was going on with your heart and lungs than issues about modesty? Makes her bedside manner suck, but potentially you got a much more thorough consult from her than other doctors would have done...
 
Sounds like you were roughed up. She could have given you a the coat and be properly dressed while she went under the coat. But unfortunately you froze and she was not gentle.
 
I see this from two angles.

I totally agree medical professionals see our bodies as ‘work’ and are interested in results and readings- I am generally ok with procedures personally. but if we are uncomfortable our readings might not be accurate ( monitor too.

It’s always , always ok to have a chaperone if that makes you more comfortable. It’s ok for that to be a nod to PTSD .
 
Thanks for the validation @Sideways
And the reframe!

I’m not really upset with her. I just feel...just upset!
And probably upset with myself more than anything because I just do as I’m told in situations like this even if I’m uncomfortable/want to pause/whatever.
And because it’s been 30 years...so it’s stupid to still be getting upset about this Kind of stuff.
 
She wasn’t rough/not gentle @grit
I think she just wasn’t at all concerned that I might not have wanted to be sitting there feeling exposed for that time.
 
The thing is @Mee a chaperone wouldn’t really have helped in this instance. It would then just have been that I was sitting with my boobs out in front of two people instead of one! It’s not that I thought she was going to do something dodgy. It’s just...I felt mortified. And probably unsafe. But it’s not really on her that I felt unsafe. Even though I think she could have taken the readings without me sitting half undressed. I know this is just about me being stupid.
 
The thing is @Mee a chaperone wouldn’t really have helped in this instance. It would then just have been that I was sitting with my boobs out in front of two people instead of one! It’s not that I thought she was going to do something dodgy. It’s just...I felt mortified. And probably unsafe. But it’s not really on her that I felt unsafe. Even though I think she could have taken the readings without me sitting half undressed. I know this is just about me being stupid.
I’m I take a chaperone every time possible because I feel less unsafe of ‘whatever I think can happen’ with a witness there. The undressed part can still happen behind a curtain if you want your chaperone in the room but not seeing you partially clothed. In fact- This is what is standard offering where I am i either ask or am given the option of curtain open.

I have discussed this kind of stuff a bit with my T and where I have got to is that I might always have ‘concerns’ so I need to find the way to mitigate them and advocate for myself or appoint someone to advocate.

It’s - risk minimisation. For me the fear is lessened with a chaperone. That might not be your answer ! But it’s ok to ask for things to be different to do that you do have to identify the stresses. ?
 
And because it’s been 30 years...so it’s stupid to still be getting upset about this Kind of stuff.
Nah, it's not stupid. And for me, getting embarrassed over things like that isn't likely to change any time soon.

It is what it is. I get embarrassed, I know where that comes from, so embarrassed makes perfect sense.

Instead of beating yourself up over how you "should" be over it, maybe flip that on its head. Be extra kind to yourself. You were embarrassed - that's perfectly valid, and you know the background to it, where it comes from, why that particular emotion came up for you.

So, notice and acknowledge the emotion, because it's valid, then do something kind or gentle for yourself, because you were put in a situation that made you uncomfortable.

There's no rules about time frames or having some sort of goal to not get embarrassed about these things any more. So, instead of it being cause for concern, or reason to give yourself a hard time about "why can't I just be over it", use it as an excuse to validate your own feelings and be kind to yourself when those feelings are uncomfortable.
 
Later, when I told my partner about it and showed her how far up I'd had to lift my top, she looked shocked. Then she said, 'What is it with you? Why do you always get all the weirdo doctors?'
:roflmao:

Ah! Stephanie Plum’s exploding cars!!!

(This will make a lot more sense if you’ve actually read the Stephanie Plum mysteries IE ‘the worst bounty hunter in the world’. Her car dies. In myriad ways, not just blowing up. Every book. Sometimes twice a book. 20 books in its become a clear gimmick, but in the beginning of the series it was done very subtly/cleverly, probably just one of those things that developed naturally and grew camp in time.)

The thing is? Yeah. It’s relatable. Because it seems like everyone, or at least most people, have their “weirdo thing” that just keeps happening to them over and over and over. For my mom? It’s the slow line at the grocery store. She is absolutely incapable of NOT being in the slow line. Sure, if she “chose” the slow line, it might fall back on her... but she can be in the fastest line, right up until all of her groceries are scanned... and then the register breaks!!! or the fire alarm goes off. Or the store is held up. No. f*cking. Lie. I’m not certain I have EVER -in over 30 years- seen her escape the grocery store line in under 20 minutes. Whether she’s shopping for 1 thing, or has 2 giant carts, she is goooooooing to be in line, until domesday. She just is. She finally succumbed to ORDERING groceries... and. They. Delivered. Them. To. The. Wrong. House. So she had to spend half an hour on the phone cancelling and resubmitting the order. With the online version of a “cashier”. Bwaaaaahahaha! OMFG. Mom! It’s your grocery curse! (I know. Zip it. Fast & convenient my fat aunt sally. In line at the store, on hold on the phone, same bad music :shifty: .)

I have a guy friend, meanwhile, who might go through a thousand shirts a year on bad years. He simply ruins them. Or, perhaps more accurately, they GET ruined. Now, the ones he pulls off without mindin the buttons (at least buttons can be sewn back on) or just grabbing the T too roughly and pulling? (Even though everyone else’s shirt couldn’t tear without a scissor start, his shred if you look at them funny)... Like my mom not paying attention to line speed, or luck of the draw with whatever doc is free... yeah. That’s setting the stage for Murphy to be AHA! I’ve GOT THIS. :smug: But the fact that if there’s an angry cat nearby, it will launch itself (and it’s claws) at Boyo’s shirt, a waiter with dropsy, the only mud puddle for miles, a faulty radiator, drunk stranger turning his head to puke, motor oil spray, kitchen spray, bird poop... I have seen this bloke change his shirt half a dozen times in a day... more days than I can count. Slashed, burned, ripped, stained, soaked, snag turns into rent, spilled ink, blood, mustard (from someone else’s hotdog)... Boyo’s shirt is going to jump on that grenade and save us all.

Everyone’s got their weirdo thing. Really. It’s not about something being wrong with YOU... it’s just how the universe gets its jolly’s.
 
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