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Ego vs. self-worth

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cragger65

MyPTSD Pro
This is a topic that has always confused me. It was made all the worse for having gotten involved with someone in my teens that talked a lot about "ego" and it's place in a spiritual perspective. He turned out to be quite mentally ill in later years, but the damage to my mind was done. Anyway...

The basic sense I've always had is that ego = bad. The twisted distortion that grew out of that for me when I was younger, is that self-worth = ego = bad... all the same thing.

So how does one have self-worth for themselves, without being egotistical??? Is it just a question of balance? Self-worth = good, until it goes too far, maybe? I've always been confused on this point. My sister (who is quite religious) went on about ego to me after my nervous breakdown, and it had a HUUUUUUUGE negative effect on me. I want to avoid the topic all together because it's such a trigger/negative reminder for me, but I also want to grow and become healthier.

Any help in clarifying this issue is very much appreciated. Thanking you in advance,
Dave
 
Hey Cragger,

Good question - there is a lot of stuff written about the 'ego' and Freud was obsessed with it.

For me, the 'ego' is the voice in your head constantly telling you either: "you can't do that, remember when you tried and you failed..." or, conversely, you can do that, you are better than them... go for it!""

It is the voice of your memories, life experiences and if those have been good, then it is likely your life is running smoothly but, if they haven't, you have to learn to switch it off.

I think self worth is in the mind... and, for what it's worth, I don't believe our 'minds' are in our heads. I think they are located somewhere else - the soul, maybe I don't know. But they are certainly not the 'brain' (IMHO). I believe the mind is where the truth rests, where the healing takes place and where mastery over the 'ego' or the 'brain' is achieved.

When we are on here for example, communicating and sharing views, beliefs and philosophies, I don't believe we are using our brains necessarily (other than for motor skills and basic memory, language etc) I think we are accessing truth held in our minds that are unique to each individual.

The 'ego' or 'ordinary mind' as the Kabbalists define it is important but it has to be mastered by the 'super-ego' the 'higher self' if you like - or, in my terms, just our true minds, our true being.

Sorry if this is too long and garbled but I love these subjects!!! (I am supposed to be cooking lunch for super -ego - my significant other - but this is too interesting to ignore!)
 
Not easy to find the words but here goes nothing:

If 'humility' is the opposite of the 'standard definition' of 'ego' (-not Freud's), humility infers that we are aware of where our gifts and strengths and talents come from (not that we don't have any), give credit for that, and have an understanding of our presence and perspective in the Big Scheme of things. It doesn't mean we have to have no self-worth (that is, not to be confused with 'humiliation'), but that we have perspective, and gratitude, and can acknowledge others' gifts, as well, without feeling threatened or envious or jealous, but happy for them as well as for us.

I would suspect that ego would lose this perspective, and various thoughts, judgements, misperceptions, would then arise. Thus it would be present possibly in lieu of self-esteem or self worth.

(Yikes, clear as mud- ?- sorry!!)
 
Interesting question, I'm sure there is someone out there obsessing over their research to answer this one! Call me lazy, I'll stick to my personal opinion on this, so here goes nothing.

Ego to me is the along the same line as Vanity and I think this is where most religious zealots confuse the two terms, because although Ego can have two uses, Vanity is singly defined. Ego is not a bad thing, ego to me leads to self esteem; taking pride in your accomplishments is not a bad thing, taking pride in yourself is also not a bad thing because it makes you feel better about You. It is when this 'pride' is carried toward the Ego-centric extreme that one starts into Vanity and they place their accomplishments in light of those of others and weight them higher than that of others.

In this way, I see a problem with the term self 'worth'. Worth is a value word. It implies a comparison to something else in order to give it weight. Self Worth is how we judge ourselves in comparison to others...big stumbling block for everyone, it leads either to Ego-centric thinking patterns or it leads to negative Self Esteem (which then contributes to depression).

Each of us is entitled to Self Esteem. We are entitled to take pride in our selves and we are entitled to hold our head up high regardless of the 'judged' weight of our accomplishments. An Accomplishment is an accomplishment, allow yourself to smile and say, "I have accomplished something".

I may sound like I have a good grasp on what I believe, but I do struggle with this same issue - my Mom was big on Vanity and Pride and she made a point to let us know that it is wrong to put yourself Above others (she was a product of the Catholic Nuns). I still have self esteem issues, likely always will and it is the hardest thing for me to relish any of my accomplishments because I always end up judging them in light of the accomplishments of others.

Well that's my two cents on this issue, hope it helps.
 
Hi,

The posts about this have been lovely.

It sometimes seems to me that everyone else gets to tell us how awful we are, and will use whatever buzz words will make them believable.

I can't add anything to the replies which are already here, but it did strike me that there are always people 'out there' who cannot just allow us to feel good about ourselves. Theirs would seem to be the negative connotations associated with the whole 'ego' concept. Having PTSD does make us more sensitive and I think there are those who happily exploit our situations by making us feel just terrible about ourselves. Yes, before anyone replies that we have it in our own power to disallow these people, I agree it's our responsibility. It does seem to me, though, that we tend to get targeted because of our willingness to sometimes just accept other's evaluations of ourselves.

Sometimes people are just jerks. :)

Take care and stay strong?

Anni
 
Thanks everyone for the responses so far. Each of your posts has shown me a little crack of light.

Helena, I can relate to your assessment that our true mind does not exist in the brain. Though I know that the brain plays a key "technical role", it is the heart that holds the truth. I remember feeling that very strongly before I got lost. I tend to think too much, and that is a brain burner. Not good.

Meg, I love your take on the question. This to me, is the ideal "healthy ego". One that can give, not just to themselves, but to others as well. Much more expansive and whole. Thanks for that.

Medic, my experiences with the issue is probably closest to your own, so far. I'm not sure of the difference between self-worth and self-esteem. In my own use, they indicate the same thing - what I think of myself. Maybe just a question of symantics?

I like the idea that we have the right to be proud of ourselves and our accomplishments. Perhaps that's a big part of the issue for me. I'm not proud of what I've done with my life, especially since the crash. Something for me to work at, for sure.

Anni, I can relate to what you're saying. People are quick to judge. It's such a part of our culture, though, they are probably not even aware of the pain it causes some because they themselves don't struggle with the same issue to the same extent. This is exactly why I want to take a better look at my self evaluation and what it is based upon, so that others can't rock my world so easily. I find that if they don't, I still terrorize myself in lieu of it. A terribly self-destructive habit of mine. I wonder if we all don't suffer that to some degree out of programming and habituation.

All excellent takes, each unique and helpful. I hope this helps others too, I know it's an issue of some contention with myself. Maybe "self absorbed" is a good way to word it for myself... too caught up in my own problems, and so can't smell the roses. It helps to share, anyway, and maybe we can all gain a little something from that.

Thanks for the perspectives,
Dave
 
They're Not Just Words

Dave, It sounds like the bulk of your trouble has been with people talking to you when they didn’t know what they were talking about. They engaged in what is known as a logical fallacy. Most comedians make their living by pointing out the logical fallacies used by some political, religious, corporate and world leaders. People who use logical fallacies in public are often mercilessly mocked for it – and for good reason: the only reason to use a logical fallacy is to manipulate someone else into believing something that simply isn’t true.

It might help to call the E-word by something else. Every language on this planet has a word for it, so you can pick one of those or use your own word.

If, however, you’re looking to get past the negative association with the word, start with the definitions of the words. The way they were defined to you originally was way off the mark; just ask anyone who is a stickler for word use.

Both “ego” and “self-worth” are nouns; therefore one cannot describe the other (as an adjective would), nor are they synonyms of each other (no matter what someone tells you). This is known because everyone has an ego, but not everyone has self-worth. People use them interchangeably, but they do so incorrectly.

The word “ego” is also wrongly equated with words that really are negative, like “egotistical,” “egomaniac” or “egoism.” Equating these is like equating “light” with “lightning” or “light bulb.” Yes, they’re related, but only in the most basic sense (specific with their origins) and they certainly do not mean the same thing, nor can one be used in place of another.

Ego simply means “I” – that’s all; no more and no less. It is to say, “I exist” or “I am.” The word itself is from the German language and represents the word “Ich” (as in “I”) with reference to the inner self rather than the physical person. It refers to the part of you that has thoughts, feelings, memories, dreams and ideas. This is your inner self. Your outer self (your body) is what you clothe, feed, shoe and move around.

When someone says, “What a big ego you have!” he or she is showing a lack of understanding with their own language. There is no adjective that belongs in front of the word “ego” because it just is. When someone refers to someone else as “egotistical” they are not, by definition, referring to that person’s ego. They are referring to that person’s dismissal of others.

“Self-worth” refers only to how much worth you believe you have. It has nothing to do with your actual worth as a person. Everyone has equal worth. Everyone does not have equal belief in his or her own worth.

There is not a single person on this planet with “too much” self-worth or who values themselves too much. Those who brag and boast are suffering from a lack of self-worth as much as someone who puts themselves down because neither one has a realistic view of their own worth.

So, “self-worth” does not equal “ego,” and “ego” certainly doesn’t equal “bad.” The first two exist at different planes within a person, and the third (bad) is a judgment that originates outside the person. I’m no sooner “bad” than I am “rich,” “good at math,” “black” or “short.” I’m none of these, so someone calling me any of these things (as a compliment or an insult) is meaningless.

Saying that self-worth equals ego and ego equals bad is like saying, “What I see is bad, therefore my eyes and my sight are bad” or (my favorite from many years ago) “All fire trucks are red trucks, therefore all red trucks are fire trucks.” It simply isn’t true, and reaching a conclusion that way is a logical fallacy (specifically a formal and deductive fallacy).
 
Thanks Diana. I know that what I think on the topic is distorted, thus the questioning. I realize everyone has an ego, it's just a question of whether it is healthy or unhealthy. Realistic or unrealistic.

I like your approach of removing value judgements from the equation. It's a loaded issue for me, thus clouded. I will have to come back and read your post a few more times, I think, to gain the full insight of what you offer here. Thanks very much for taking the time to clarify the issue for me.

Dave

PS. On your advice, perhaps "sense of self" is more suitable a term for me to use. Much less loaded a term. Thanks for that.
 
Good thread Cragger!

All interesting posts too folks!

A trauma therapist told me nice the goal in life is to reach wholeness not happiness (damn, I knew I had it wrong!).

So, me being a former professional self-beater-upper, I've come to reach the same conclusion you have. It's about balance.

It took me decades of work to do it, with much help from CBT, logic, questioning the validity of the content of my thoughts/beliefs and with positive experiences, but I now rarely do a number on myself.

I think I even got addicted to telling myself I was good at a few things. Then I'd beat myself up for gloating/bragging. Couldn't win.

I constantly worked at it, and it took me 27 years to do it, but 98% of the time I no longer beat myself up if I think I am flawed in some way, good in another, or admit to both. I think it took me that long because I had stress, and when things got bad, I'd beat me up eventually.

Now I try to observe my ego (I call him Chuckee, as in the horror movie...lol) at play, try to laugh off, and tell Chuckee "go away, you don't exist".
 
Hi and SO true! Once again I have nothing to add to the thought and insight, but got to the end of the posts thinking YES, boy are these thoughts feeling correct!

Take care,

Anni
 
I was going to say sense of self, too.
I was heavily involved in a yoga sect in my late 20s. I really suffered, because it was all anti-ego, and I had so little sense of self I landed up in a chronic breakdown state and close to psychosis. Admittedly it was latent already, but the heavy duty practices, and my being very fragile emotionally tipped me over the edge.
Therapy is supporting me in developing a sense of self, but I am still very wary of spiritual practices and religious organisations. Life is my spiritual practice, building my sense of self is my spiritual practice, experiencing pleasure also is. [But don't tell them!]
 
Boy, I had the same experience too.

I hung with an older friend who sort of took on the mother role for me at a very young age. She was all 'spiritual' and all the talk was about ego and how bad it was. Also, how we as humans take things personally.

I went through years at a job where I was yelled at and horribly abused. The whole time I just suffered through it and did nothing. It was engrained in my mind that I was 'taking it personally' and I needed to 'get out of my ego.'

OMG! How this all led to my complete breakdown too! It's amazing how many of us have been through a similiar thing.

Now, since recognizing that this 'training' made me a complete doormat...I now try to be 'ennamored' of myself and not let anyone talk down to me or otherwise vent on me or abuse me. NOT ALLOWED IN MY WORLD ANYMORE.

These 'spiritual' people ended up dumping me, then taking me back up again when they needed anything. I went through years being this woman's personal doormat and have ended up with a ton of pain and resentment that I now have to work thru.j

I can see it clearly now.

Yes, ego and thinking that you know it all and building a sense of self based on everything revolving around you and you being superior somehow will lead to a lot of emotional pain and you'll end up hurting other people.

But self worth is soooo much different. It is based on true self love for just being who you are with all your faults and weaknesses and still loving yourself. That is not building a false self based on ego.....self worth is just a good feeling about yourself because you always try to be a decent human being and you deserve to feel that way....without it we are truly sunk.

This f*cked me up so bad for soooo long! I can truly relate!
 
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