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Gaslighting and how to stop apologizing

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My vet is a lot like this. He will verbally lash out. Then after a little while he will behave as if nothing happened. If I try to call him on his behaviour it causes his to lash out again. Even if he seems calm. Its like it takes right back to where he was when it happened the first time. And if I bring it up days or weeks later then I am accused of holding a grudge and keeping a score card and no matter how much he tries he can't win. Sigh!

Part of growing a thick skin and not taking it personally is just to treat it as water off a duck's back. Easier said than done!
 
Part of growing a thick skin and not taking it personally is just to treat it as water off a duck's back.
I'm so sorry this sounds familiar to you. What you describe definitely rings a bell.

My question then would be: what's the difference between a duck's back and a doormat?

My boyfriend and I have now tried to discuss how to prevent these fights from happening, meaning, the dynamic of me saying something, him lashing out or shutting down, panicking and ending the conversation--and making me responsible for it.

His solution? Become more strict about shutting discussions down. If I say something he doesn't like or doesn't want to talk about, he will simply end the conversation. I told him he should do that if it works for him.

I, for one, don't know how I can be in a relationship where someone feels entitled to shut me down and holds all the power over what we talk about and when. I don't know how this can work...
 
People have different symptoms, expressions, coping mechanisms, & learned behaviors.
OP here, also the last post above. That's where I get tripped up time and again. What's said around here a lot is that PTSD doesn't rob a sufferer from intelligent reasoning and choices. So if they choose to lash our, minimize, invalidate etc. it's them, not PTSD.

But then I think, all of the above is a learned behavior that can be traced back directly to his trauma and PTSD. He minimizes to avoid triggers, he invalidates to avoid shame and guilt...

I know this doesn't mean it's excusable that he does it, but it's a real gray zone as to how HIS PTSD expresses itself versus what's him being an immature jerk.
 
Triggered situations can get really unreasonable but blaming you all the time for stuff you didn't do or didn't mean anything by? That is immature no matter how you look at it.
You need to get clear on what you are and are not responsible for because this situation sounds manipulative.

If you said something that he flew off the handle about? You can still say "I'm sorry, I didn't mean to offend you." But if he's constantly trying to make you wrong and not owning his part, then he's being a childish brat who wants a mummy to blame so he doesn't have to look at himself IMO.
 
To the OP... There is not much you're going to be able to do about him, so I'm going to suggest a few things for you to consider for your own behaviors.

Do you really need the validation that you're innocent or right if you know you're innocent or right? If he says it's your fault, but you know it's not, then why are you engaging with him and trying to get him to agree? He should have zero power to make you feel guilty about something you didn't do.

Also, when he is highly symptomatic, pick your battles. There is an old saying - what's more important? Being right or being happy? I usually try to save my battles for the important issues. Things that MUST be heard or defended. I really think twice about engaging if it's not something life shattering.

Do these behaviors make me a doormat? I'd say not. I'd say these behaviors are an adjustment I've made to cope with a mentally ill partner. Is he a smart, logical, man? Yes. Is he responsible for his behaviors? Yes, however I'm not going to throw gasoline on a fire when I know there is a fire.
 
OP here, also the last post above. That's where I get tripped up time and again. What's said around here a lot is that P...
I completely agree with this ^^^ statement! I believe ptsd does play a major role in robbing one of deductive reasoning and rationale. It seems to be the commonality of what I’ve been reading. Again, I don’t ever want to minimize the suffering I now know they experience daily, but the illness (IMO) does cause one to behave in extreme ways at times.
 
Your descriptions of his behaviour set off alarm bells for me -

"One of the prevalent features of life with an angry or controlling partner is that he frequently tells you what you should think and tries to get you to doubt or devalue your own perceptions and beliefs."

"Verbal explosions when he is irritated or when he doesn’t get his way. Her grievances constantly turned around on her, so that everything is her own fault."

"He twists her words around so that she always ends up on the defensive."

From Lundy Bancroft Why Does He Do That? Inside the minds of angry and controlling men. I realise I could quite possibly be wrong but I wonder if you might get something out of reading this book?
 
But the way it's structured now...I always have to apologize just to keep the peace...

I had a relationship like this with my ex and ex-best friend.

If something went wrong, I had to go out of my way to fix it.

I'm definitely done with that life now. I won't let others treat me this way, and I made solid boundaries with her. That made her angry, and she cut off communication.

Did I really lose anything, once I healed?
 
His ptsd stems from a childhood thing.

Sometimes ( not always) childhood things can lead to other issues besides ptsd. Or maybe as well as.... I do not know.

It might be worth in light of his behaviour rather than worrying about what causes it; wondering how sustainable and healthy it is for you :(

Sometimes the most loving thing we can do for our selves or another is draw strong, uncrossable boundaries.

There is no doubt what so ever my ptsd has impacted on my partner. If I said to him however that normal behavior had to cease ( as opposed to explaining my reactions or insecurities to triggers in normal behaviour THAT IS NOT HIS FAULT and him giving me space to work through that) I would feel I was failing us both. In my recovery it is for me to find my space around normality, not for others to bend around my ’divergences’ from acceptable tolerance and coping skills.
 
Have you read any books on Co-dependency? I learned how to set boundaries and not to own others' emotions or actions. Are you in therapy? I would think anyone who is having a relationship with someone with symptomatic PTSD would benefit. You can only change how you react. He doesn't get to treat you badly, then treat you badly when he should apologize. I don't think that's a symptom of PTSD.
 
All of you are making a whole lot of sense...

I actually just cracked into the book Stop Walking on Eggshells. It's geared toward BPD, which he isn't diagnosed with, but hell if some of it doesn't apply to his communication strategies sometimes...

Within 10 minutes of reading, I learned more about how to actually validate without caving or being blamed than I have from years of therapy. What an eye opener...

You need to get clear on what you are and are not responsible for because this situation sounds manipulative.
Agreed. Where I'm at right now is knowing what I'm not responsible for, but having a hard time asserting my boundaries to him verbally and non-verbally. Meaning, actually translating that into action that I can sustain. Very much fast-tracking myself through that right now.

Do you really need the validation that you're innocent or right if you know you're innocent or right?
You're right! I don't. You know, thinking about this in an isolated setting, I'm clear as can be about my reality. It's when we're in conversation that I too easily get roped into a fight. Like I said, at some point I cave and just apologize to ease the situation. I realize that's enabling and NOT helping either of us. So you're right, I don't need him to validate my reality. I need to calmly state my reality and let him freak out if he must.

Also, when he is highly symptomatic, pick your battles.
Oh yes, I've learned to pick wisely. The issue here is that this happens when he's calm and when it does, it can "make" him symptomatic. I put that word in quotes because I know I don't "make" him do anything. He seems to think so, or rather, that's where he is at right now in terms of taking responsibility for his own feelings. He thinks what I say or how I say it triggers him. He doesn't see that it's his disorder that's putting the filter onto my behavior, which, in turn triggers him. He used to be further a long than this, so I'm trying to adjust to the changes as to what will be a battle and what won't be.

...if he'd always been like this, I'd have long found a way out. He's always had his moments, but the last months have been BAD.

"One of the prevalent features of life with an angry or controlling partner is that he frequently tells you what you should think and tries to get you to doubt or devalue your own perceptions and beliefs."
That's scary. Knowing him, he'd fall apart if he truly understood what he's actually turning into right now. At the moment, he feels totally justified and can't seem to wrap his head around what he's actually doing. He hasn't always been like this and I know he's a smart guy with a lot of heart and empathy--so that's why I'm still trying here. Not in the hopes that he'll somehow change, but in the hopes of me not participating and ruining myself and him in the process.

It might be worth in light of his behaviour rather than worrying about what causes it; wondering how sustainable and healthy it is for you
Sadly, that's where I'm at right now. I'm well aware that this isn't sustainable. Coming on here and trying to find some tools for myself is a bit of a last ditch effort to do my part. Doing my part entails getting stricter and more clear about my boundaries, which, I'm well aware, could actually end the entire relationship. I'm willing to take that risk.

If I said to him however that normal behavior had to cease
This ^^ hits the nail on the head. It's been an evolution of a few weeks now, but as gleaned from the last few conversations we've had, he's essentially asking me to cease normal behavior. That includes speaking about my feelings, voicing concerns or fears, or asking him uncomfortable questions. I'm back and forth on this...if he needs a bit of time without any added stressors, that's fine, I can hold back--unless something truly out of the ordinary happens that I need to speak about. But if this is the rule as to how he wants to deal with his PTSD from now on...no way Jose.

In my recovery it is for me to find my space around normality, not for others to bend around my ’divergences’ from acceptable tolerance and coping skills.
Also this ^^. That used to be our deal, but something has changed. He's growing more strict and rigorous about having it his way by the day. I'm starting to think that he's interpreting that as asserting his boundaries. He's not seeing that he's essentially trying control me though...hm.

Have you read any books on Co-dependency?
I have, yes. I've done a lot of work around boundaries. Identifying them, asserting them, etc. Another reason I'm here. Dealing with him is unlike anything I've ever experienced, so I'm having to do a lot of thinking and re-thinking because goal posts change right along with his moods and I'm having a hard time keeping up. I had to learn boundaries with guys from scratch, so it doesn't come 100% naturally, but I've come a long way thank god...

Are you in therapy?
Yes, thank god, I'm a therapy vet :)
 
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