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Gaslighting, invalidation, gender stuff

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HealingMama

MyPTSD Pro
So, this might be too controversial in which case it can be deleted or whatever as needed by mods.

I am trying to understand cultural beliefs and expectations and the interplay of gendered thinking when it comes to disagreements.

I kind of feel like BPD is diagnosed more in women because the behaviors can also look like reacting with anger to invalidation. And historically women are seen as having bad logic, bad reasoning, men know better, etc. Men think better and are smarter, women are hysterical. Even though men can act hysterical around sporting events.

I've never been diagnosed with BPD. I've never threatened suicide or self harm for attention. But I was definitely raised in an invalidating environment and as such, I am sensitive to invalidation now.

I often experience my partner as believing I'm stupid or crazy. I have read a lot about this dynamic and it seems very common for men that draw their own conclusions about an event and assume the alternative position is stupid or fallible or just crazy or she's on her period just bunker down and it will pass eventually lolz.

I guess I am wondering how to be taken seriously as a female talking to a male where we are interpreting a situation differently. Because so far I'm used to men defaulting to healing mama is stupid/crazy/hormonal rather than thinking well, there's more than one version of right. Let me respect this person as an equal partner by trying to understand their experience better.

I mean please feel free to be honest... Is that just a BPD thing for me to want that? Or is that the stress of never being seen and treated like a person who has sense and reason... And it's just convenient for society to see that and call it bpd? I mean not to be obnoxious but I was in gifted and AP classes, free ride to college, multiple terminal degrees. I was iq tested as a genius. I am NOT stupid. I passed my college Logic class. I have totally decent reasoning and critical thinking skills. So it is especially annoying to be on the receiving end of what feels like a sexist need to be superior.

Most of my bpdish behaviors like sending too many long texts or acting really angry all of a sudden happen when my spouse acts like I'm stupid/crazy for seeing things a certain way. Like... Is it not reasonable to expect your partner to make room for your perspective and try to understand it rather than writing it off?

How do you get a man to treat your mind and opinions as equally worthy as another man's?
 
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I wish I could write a better response but my brain is a mess at the moment.

It is not BPD to want to be taken seriously. If you are around men who are constantly thinking you are hormonal or otherwise discounting you believe there is a problem. Men should not act like that. And not all men do. I grew up in a family of men like that and it took me time, once I got in the world to find out that most men aren't like that.

Interpreting things as not being taken seriously can be a BPD type or thing. What I mean is, if there is a disagreement, it can be hard to miss someone accepting your point of view through the lens of BPD.

And I fully agree that women get more diagnosed with BPD because of our messed up gender roles.
 
So, this might be too controversial in which case it can be deleted or whatever as needed by mods.

I am trying to understand cultural beliefs and expectations and the interplay of gendered thinking when it comes to disagreements.

I kind of feel like BPD is diagnosed more in women because the behaviors can also look like reacting with anger to invalidation. And historically women are seen as having bad logic, bad reasoning, men know better, etc. Men think better and are smarter, women are hysterical. Even though men can act hysterical around sporting events.

I've never been diagnosed with BPD. I've never threatened suicide or self harm for attention. But I was definitely raised in an invalidating environment and as such, I am sensitive to invalidation now.

I often experience my partner as believing I'm stupid or crazy. I have read a lot about this dynamic and it seems very common for men that draw their own conclusions about an event and assume the alternative position is stupid or fallible or just crazy or she's on her period just bunker down and it will pass eventually lolz.

I guess I am wondering how to be taken seriously as a female talking to a male where we are interpreting a situation differently. Because so far I'm used to men defaulting to healing mama is stupid/crazy/hormonal rather than thinking well, there's more than one version of right. Let me respect this person as an equal partner by trying to understand their experience better.

I mean please feel free to be honest... Is that just a BPD thing for me to want that? Or is that the stress of never being seen and treated like a person who has sense and reason... And it's just convenient for society to see that and call it bpd? I mean not to be obnoxious but I was in gifted and AP classes, free ride to college, multiple terminal degrees. I was iq tested as a genius. I am NOT stupid. I passed my college Logic class. I have totally decent reasoning and critical thinking skills. So it is especially annoying to be on the receiving end of what feels like a sexist need to be superior.

Most of my bpdish behaviors like sending too many long texts or acting really angry all of a sudden happen when my spouse acts like I'm stupid/crazy for seeing things a certain way. Like... Is it not reasonable to expect your partner to make room for your perspective and try to understand it rather than writing it off?

How do you get a man to treat your mind and opinions as equally worthy as another man's?
You said you've never been diagnosed...what makes you think anything you're feeling has anything to with bpd? Maybe you just want to feel like you matter? I think that's pretty human isn't it?
 
You said you've never been diagnosed...what makes you think anything you're feeling has anything to with bpd? Maybe you just want to feel like you matter? I think that's pretty human isn't it?
Our first marriage counselor said in front of both of us that she thinks I have traits.

My husband did a really good job of minimizing his own issues and I was very very stressed by his unemployment at the time. He made himself look like a nice guy with a normal life who was with this irrational person. But he was badly neglected as a kid, and really hates his mother, and has a lot of pride and shame issues. For whatever reason the therapist bought his presentation and I became the identified patient.

He wasn't communicating well and I didn't just accept that and let stuff go so I did a lot of pursuing and too much texting. I got angry a lot. Because I was pregnant, working 3 jobs, he wasn't even trying to find work, and I was desperate/scared/resentful.

I was raised in the type of environment that can increase the risk of BPD.

So basically we had a marriage therapist that suggested it. But it's a terrible idea to diagnose one member of a relationship with a personality disorder in front of the other one. I think she was a bit of a quack and I felt very unsafe with her.

I definitely have some trauma, and I'm sensitive to invalidation. I am sensitive to abandonment BUT my dad died unexpectedly and my husband looks a little like him. And anyone would feel destabilized partnering with someone who has severe ADHD because they don't respond to messages, they don't answer phone calls, the phone breaks. He's gone through 9 phone numbers since I've known him. He leaves the house and doesn't stick to the plan for what he's going to do while out so it's all just really chaotic and makes me anxious. But I'm the one that keeps trying to leave. I don't think that's how BPD works. He is actually the one that overdosed when his first wife left him. I have had stable attachment in other relationships. But I just don't know what's real anymore.

So maybe the oversharing that I'm doing is a BPD trait. But this place is anonymous and so far you all seem like safe people with good intentions. And I did ask for help understanding so context is helpful. That's the story of why I don't know if I have BPD or not. I think it's cPTSD personally. Aggravated by my partners withdrawing/avoidant coping style and his own mental illness.
 
In my humble opinion and i am brought up more central and eastern culture,
I've never threatened suicide or self harm for attention.
This quote is very western culture. No one in human race wants to commit suicide for attention. It is oxymoron. If that is what it takes to get attention, that person has hit a deep well that we may never know.
Just adding to the cultural perspective.
I want to add it is not men who think that cause you cannt know all men and their thinking. It is your internalization and your husband probably reinforce that. This is not about gender. But more about your experience.
 
Our first marriage counselor said in front of both of us that she thinks I have traits.

My husband did a really good job of minimizing his own issues and I was very very stressed by his unemployment at the time. He made himself look like a nice guy with a normal life who was with this irrational person. But he was badly neglected as a kid, and really hates his mother, and has a lot of pride and shame issues. For whatever reason the therapist bought his presentation and I became the identified patient.

He wasn't communicating well and I didn't just accept that and let stuff go so I did a lot of pursuing and too much texting. I got angry a lot. Because I was pregnant, working 3 jobs, he wasn't even trying to find work, and I was desperate/scared/resentful.

I was raised in the type of environment that can increase the risk of BPD.

So basically we had a marriage therapist that suggested it. But it's a terrible idea to diagnose one member of a relationship with a personality disorder in front of the other one. I think she was a bit of a quack and I felt very unsafe with her.

I definitely have some trauma, and I'm sensitive to invalidation. I am sensitive to abandonment BUT my dad died unexpectedly and my husband looks a little like him. And anyone would feel destabilized partnering with someone who has severe ADHD because they don't respond to messages, they don't answer phone calls, the phone breaks. He's gone through 9 phone numbers since I've known him. He leaves the house and doesn't stick to the plan for what he's going to do while out so it's all just really chaotic and makes me anxious. But I'm the one that keeps trying to leave. I don't think that's how BPD works. He is actually the one that overdosed when his first wife left him. I have had stable attachment in other relationships. But I just don't know what's real anymore.

So maybe the oversharing that I'm doing is a BPD trait. But this place is anonymous and so far you all seem like safe people with good intentions. And I did ask for help understanding so context is helpful. That's the story of why I don't know if I have BPD or not. I think it's cPTSD personally. Aggravated by my partners withdrawing/avoidant coping style and his own mental illness.
My brother has severe adhd so I know how frustrating that is. As far as the BPD diagnosis, if you're concerned I suggest getting a formal diagnosis instead of a drive by by a therapist that doesn't specialize in trauma therapy.
 
My brother has severe adhd so I know how frustrating that is. As far as the BPD diagnosis, if you're concerned I suggest getting a formal diagnosis instead of a drive by by a therapist that doesn't specialize in trauma therapy.
Yeah, I've done lots of trauma therapy and nobody has ever diagnosed me with BPD.

In my humble opinion and i am brought up more central and eastern culture,

This quote is very western culture. No one in human race wants to commit suicide for attention. It is oxymoron. If that is what it takes to get attention, that person has hit a deep well that we may never know.
Just adding to the cultural perspective.
I want to add it is not men who think that cause you cannt know all men and their thinking. It is your internalization and your husband probably reinforce that. This is not about gender. But more about your experience.
Thanks for pointing that out. I don't know why I wrote it that way. I meant to say I've never been suicidal or self-harmed.

I didn't mean to suggest that this view is shared by all men. I have seen lots of women complain about it but it's impossible for anything to be true about all men really. It does seem in my local experience that men are commonly invalidating the female perspective and there's lots of feminist discourse about that.
 
I guess I am wondering how to be taken seriously as a female talking to a male where we are interpreting a situation differently. Because so far I'm used to men defaulting to healing mama is stupid/crazy/hormonal rather than thinking well, there's more than one version of right. Let me respect this person as an equal partner by trying to understand their experience better.
This sounds like interpersonal communication problems - and it may or may not be affected by gender bias...
I have totally decent reasoning and critical thinking skills. So it is especially annoying to be on the receiving end of what feels like a sexist need to be superior.
First thing I'd challenge is your assumption about motive. You might be right, but you might also be wrong. And if you're wrong, then you're getting annoyed over something you're creating in your own mind.
Most of my bpdish behaviors like sending too many long texts or acting really angry all of a sudden happen when my spouse acts like I'm stupid/crazy for seeing things a certain way. Like... Is it not reasonable to expect your partner to make room for your perspective and try to understand it rather than writing it off?
I think it's totally reasonable to want this kind of communication.

It's really hard to solve communication problems in a relationship without the help of a third party. The good news is, most therapists ascribe to one or another well known couple's therapy modalities. So - it's not hard to read up on what the therapist says they do, and how they do it.

You can't fix someone else's communication problems. It sucks, but it's true. You can work on your own - and that includes working on how you listen, how you respond, and your own patterns of reactivity. I'm a big fan of DBT, so my recommendation for this is looking at the DBT module called Interpersonal Effectiveness.
 
If your husband uses "excuses" to explain your behavior, don't give him mental illness labels to use as a weapon in an argument-sounds like something I've done...? Even if you get diagnosed, I wouldn't dwell on a label.

I was in an unhealthy marriage. When I look at it now (I'm divorced), then I gave away my power little by little and slowly caved. If he said I didn't wash the laundry the right way, I let him do it. If I didn't do something the way he thought it should be done....words like crazy were used to demean. I got a degree, he refused to attend graduation because it was in the city....so I/we didn't go. My daughter acted up in college and I better drive through 8 states to straighten her out....or she can't come home....and of course, things were always my fault or some womanly reason because...... Yes I've heard "monthly monster" as an excuse, hormones, my medications need adjusting, and any number of stupid things. But I don't think this is sexist....it was his personality, lousy social skills, distance from his own emotions, and a lack of real connection between us in the communication department, with his need to be better than me. Maybe this gave him a false sense of superiority....I don't know. He, like Mary Poppins believed himself practically perfect in every way, and would recant that phrase every so often so I remembered there was a power difference in the relationship, and it was he who was the stronger one and being physically much larger/stronger than myself and that and his voice was always loud and intimidating made it more so -in my head. After realizing I was never going to have the kind of relationship I envisioned at the start, "a partnership" or even close, and he refused to go to counseling, I called it quits. But my situation deteriorated over time.....many years. Couples therapy in our case, was never an option. I hope you can find a solution.
 
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