News Homophobia And Low Intelligence Are Linked, Study Finds

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ms spock

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An interesting study found that Homophobia And Low Intelligence Are Linked.

 

joeylittle

Administrator
The only notable thing seems to be that it's the first time Australia has done this type of study. Similar studies have been done elsewhere - and they do identify connections between low cognitive ability and various kinds of prejudice.

This one from 2011, for example (excerpt from the abstract)
Despite their important implications for interpersonal behaviors and relations, cognitive abilities have been largely ignored as explanations of prejudice. We proposed and tested mediation models in which lower cognitive ability predicts greater prejudice, an effect mediated through the endorsement of right-wing ideologies (social conservatism, right-wing authoritarianism) and low levels of contact with out-groups. In an analysis of two large-scale, nationally representative United Kingdom data sets (N = 15,874), we found that lower general intelligence (g) in childhood predicts greater racism in adulthood, and this effect was largely mediated via conservative ideology. A secondary analysis of a U.S. data set confirmed a predictive effect of poor abstract-reasoning skills on antihomosexual prejudice, a relation partially mediated by both authoritarianism and low levels of intergroup contact. All analyses controlled for education and socioeconomic status. Our results suggest that cognitive abilities play a critical, albeit underappreciated, role in prejudice.

From your link - the Queensland study found:
It was ultimately discovered that, the lower a person’s intelligence was found to be, the more likely they would be to express prejudiced views against same-sex couples.
 

intothelight

Sponsor
One word of caution, as I have seen this happen, is a stance of "intellectual elitism" and the dismissing and or villainizing of entire groups of people based on their social, political and/or religious affiliations. In doing this, I am seeing divisions increasing and the "groups" are becoming more disenfranchised. Right now, in this country, I think the "worst" thing you can be is a white, conservative, evangelical male. However, like any categorizing of people, that is not the reality. The problems are far deeper than this and until root causes are addressed, there cannot be resolution and or reconciliation.

Its sad to see the "fears" amplified, rather than addressing the fears and educating to alleviate the fears. My gut is telling me that we need to shift the focus to that of what it takes to let all people feel secure and have the opportunity to succeed.
 

ms spock

Sponsor
If someone is engaging in bigotry and prejudice I do think that is pretty dumb, if they are raping and killing people because they are queer, that's pretty dumb, if they are excluding people from employment and housing, because they are gay, yeah that's pretty dumb, and if they are offended for being called on that. That is not a problem for me. If being called on your prejudice and bigotry and your destructive behaviours makes you feel insecure, I don't have a problem with that. That's nothing to losing custody of your kids, your employment, your family, and your life.

Where's your funny bones? Yes being Australian I am amused that people beating up, killing and harassing the people that I both love and care for are being seen as dumb. That does appeal to my sense of humour.

People are killing us in our communities,and to even get that acknowledged is a real battle. When Gangs Killed Gay Men for Sport: Australia Reviews 88 Deaths (Published 2017)

My girlfriend and I were beaten up and assaulted for walking down the street together - not holding hands - but just being together.

Lesbians and bisexuals are raped in Sydney and whilst being raped are told it is because of their sexuality - yep they are asking for this rape.

There's Black trans deaths every week.

We have to have some way to understand how this is happening to our friends and communities. How does everyone live with the fear? How do you place yourself within that whole framework?

LGBTIQQA+ Buddhist Sanghas around the world that now due to Covid, I belong to, discuss this all week in and week out. You have a way to understand you reality. You are welcome to yours. This is part of my way of coming to terms with what is going on all over the world against LGBTIQQA+.

I have been trying to write an article on a prominent LGBTIQQA+ person in the Buddhist community on Wikipedia, and it's been sandboxed because they didn't think this person was well published enough, so I produced their PhD, their long list of references - then they aren't famous enough - I provide their sources - then is it really necessary to put in their same sex partner - I go through all the mixed sex partners that have - and so it continues for 5 months trying to get this article published.
Do you have a similar story of a white, evangelical man who is not allowed Wikipedia due to being a white, evangelical male? I am not saying it couldn't happen. It's just that I have not heard of it, which could because of the circles that I move amongst. I have blinkers and blinders on too. I know that.

One word of caution, as I have seen this happen, is a stance of "intellectual elitism" and the dismissing and or villainizing of entire groups of people based on their social, political and/or religious affiliations.
This happens every day, and for hundreds of years to people who are Black, Brown, First Nations and LGBTIQQA+ there just happens to start to be the tiniest bit of balance, and I get white fragility I do, but I am not going to pander to it.
In doing this, I am seeing divisions increasing and the "groups" are becoming more disenfranchised. Right now, in this country, I think the "worst" thing you can be is a white, conservative, evangelical male.
I am so confused by this statement?

How can it possibly be true that it is the worst thing to be is a white conservative, evangelical male?

Where are white conservative, evangelical male suffering more deaths than any other group in any area? Where is their loss of life higher than non white peoples due to being white in any area? Please name one?

Are they losing their lives to the police at an alarming rate on a regular basis? Are they dying disproportionately from Covid19? Are they disproportionally being incarcerated and imprisoned? Are they disproportionately losing their employment and housing due to the impacts of living in poverty before Covid19?

Is it because they have their feelings hurt as they have to question their privilege? Are their feelings hurt? How can their hurt feelings be worse than the actual deaths of non white people? This I really don't get.
However, like any categorizing of people, that is not the reality. The problems are far deeper than this and until root causes are addressed, there cannot be resolution and or reconciliation.
I would say that until the truth of the literal deaths of LGBTIQQA+ are actually named and detailed that there cannot be resolution or reconciliation. The loss of access to children, to housing, to employment, to health care.

I had a friend who went out one day and didn't come back. We looked every where for her. Her daugher and her girlfriend were out of their minds. A week later her girl friend rang my friend's family to say she was missing to be told, we buried her yesterday. Her partner of 30 years didn't get to go to her funeral. Her teenage daughter, whom she gave birth to, didn't get to go to her own Mother's funeral, because of the beliefs of her white religious family's beliefs that homosexuality is work of the devil. Where is the suffering of white evangelical men that matches this? Where are they denied even going to their parent's funerals due to being white evangelical men?
Its sad to see the "fears" amplified, rather than addressing the fears and educating to alleviate the fears.
Truth telling needs to occur for healing and for the bigotry, prejudice and violence to stop. If we don't name it, it can't be stopped.
My gut is telling me that we need to shift the focus to that of what it takes to let all people feel secure and have the opportunity to succeed.
If you are not even alive because you have been lynched or murdered due to being different to a white evangelical male, there is no possibility of being secure of having the opportunity of succeeding.

I find your comments completely confusing.
 
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Friday

Moderator
Fear is dumb.

By that score we’re, all of us with PTSD, stupid as f*ck. Shrug.

But also -almost uniquely- placed to understand unthinking, mindless fear.

Can fears be conquered? Of course. Certainement.

Is it a simple process to arrive at unthinking, reactionary fears? Not at all. Nor is the path out, to break away from deeply ingrained automatic reactions, black & white thinking, easy answers to complex problems... into a place where each person or situation is judged by their own merits.

Both the arrival & departure from core beliefs is a complicated process.

Have I hated without thought or question? Yes.
Do I still? Sometimes.
Would I kill for fear? Absolutely.
Would I die for it? I’ve been willing to before, which makes it very possible to arrive at, again.
Was it homophobia? Pfft. No. Nor any other current politically incorrect “ism”. Which doesn’t make it any less of a problem for me, nor any less understandable for others, nor any more or less acceptable for any of us. Simply? Less just. That the world isn’t fair, shouldn’t come to as a shock. The things we strive most for? By definition are rarely attained. Justice is only important because there is so little of it. If it weren’t such a precious commodity, it wouldn’t be so cried out for. Nor argued over

Ists, Isms, -phobias... what we fear, what we hate. With broad strokes? Makes us all stupid. As every panic attack colorfully illustrates.

Not being willing to admit those things in public / on surveys? Doesn’t make us smart. It just makes us savvy, or manipulative, or both. I refuse to accept either as markers of intelligence. Although they may be markers of wisdom.

There are highly effective methods for dealing with/managing panic attacks, murderous/suicidal impulses/rages, & riots/mobs. None of them involve reasoned discussion, or intelligent arguments as to why they’re unfounded. Emotions don’t logic so hot. Fear is dumb. By its very nature. Rating fears by intelligence? May be even stupider.
 
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intothelight

Sponsor
I think you are missing my point. If I went and made a blanket statement that in effect - People who are homophobic are stupid. How is that assumptions conducive to changing prejudice? Are people who express prejudice as a reflection of the views expressed by their families, churches or other social influences too dumb to change? I am not going to cast a net so wide to include individuals who are uneducated, underexposed and haven't been afforded the opportunity to learn a different viewpoint or mindset, in the same group as murderers and rapists. Most individuals that I have come across in my life who are prejudice are not criminals, they honestly haven't been exposed or taught, and are reacting on their own unfounded fears based on stereotypes and generalizations

Instead of villainizing or generalizing groups, lets educate, provide opportunity, and most of all stop passing judgement on people based upon the color of their skin, their religion, sexual orientation or how they identify. I want to be the change and in my little circle of contacts, that is what I will focus on. I would really hate to see what would happen to anyone that would try to hurt one of our group, because they are African-American, Muslim, handicapped, a lesbian, a communist, etc., because they are our family and friends and we love them. I honestly don't think there would be enough pieces to pick up.
 

joeylittle

Administrator
If someone is engaging in bigotry and prejudice I do think that is pretty dumb
It's not necessary to take that extra step and equate it to 'dumb', though. I'd argue that doing so reduces the horror, nothing more.

Bigotry and prejudice - irrational, illogical, they cause suffering and death and despair.

To me? That stands all on its own. And I really don't care if a person is an erudite bigot or a crass bigot. They're bigoted, and that's not at all OK in my book.

Fear is dumb. By its very nature. Rating fears by intelligence? May be even stupider.
Yes, this. It's just nonsensical.

If being called on your prejudice and bigotry and your destructive behaviours makes you feel insecure, I don't have a problem with that
I agree with this entirely. I just honestly don't see why the idea of 'intelligence' (a difficult thing to quantify at best) is relevant. To me, that just seems like providing an escape hatch for all the bigots of the world who believe their schooling somehow makes them impervious to accountability. It distracts from the argument instead of enhancing it.

I also see how it's very click-bait-y to have a headline that says homophobia and low intelligence are scientifically linked, but to have an article that more clearly states that 'intelligence' is being quantified based on multiple differing criteria, and that by itself makes the 'results' not results but observations. I do have an intense dislike of that sort of attention-getting (the headline of the article). It's misleading and irresponsible.

We don't have to define intelligence in order to shine light on bigoted or racist behavior. And don't need to invoke it in order to provoke change.
 

ms spock

Sponsor
It's not necessary to take that extra step and equate it to 'dumb', though. I'd argue that doing so reduces the horror, nothing more.
That "nothing more" is huge for people who risk being killed by the police or other bigoted people every time that they leave home. It's a way of managing the fear and anxiety. Having the horror reduced can mean gaining the ability to leave the house again.

Asian Americans were literally killed this week, so I really can't see how being a white, evangelical, heterosexual male whose feelings are a bit hurt because they have to stop unconsciously acting from their privilege are in the worst position in American culture. Really can't see it.

 
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joeylittle

Administrator
Sorry - I mean, calling bigotry and racism and prejudice "dumb" is a mistake because it's reductive. We should use the words for the crimes themselves.
I really can't see how being a white, evangelical, heterosexual male whose feelings are a bit hurt because they have to stop unconsciously acting from their privilege are in the worst position in American culture. Really can't see it.
Really didn't say it.

I'd really like people to acknowledge their own racism. I want bigotry to stop. And I believe that putting any energy into calling racists or homophobes or bigots "dumb" is a mistake because it lessens the blow.

Instead, we should call it what it is. It's criminal. Cruel. Unfair. Unjust. The guy who killed people in Atlanta this morning wasn't "dumb". He was a murderer, full stop.

I actually think we're on the same side of this argument, @ms spock. My big point has to do with making people call it what it is, that's all. I believe that we cannot truly eradicate racism in America if we don't call it precisely what it is. We need to get used to the word for it.

(By "we", I mean everyone who has not been subjected to it, i.e. we euro-white Americans. I can only speak from my own experience in the country I live in, and from the perspective that I've grown up in. Also, I respect that there are opinions different from my own. This is just how I see it, in my day-to-day.)
 
There are plenty of murderers, white supremist, terrorists, bigots, rapists, abusers, miscreants and hooligans present and historic who were highly intelligent people. Their intelligence wasn't the issue. Rather what they did with it.

There are many crimes where the preparation and commission of the crime was highly sophisticated, requiring many high functioning cerebral processes. Think of drug dealers and how they get their poison in and out of countries etc. Think of war criminals or the recruitment of people into terrorists organisations. They're not dumb and it would be completely off target to suggest that the people they recruit are dumb too.

Criminals are not dumb. Even when they get caught - still not dumb. Law enforcement, courts and the law itself is constantly expanding, evolving and updating it's personnel, equipment and processes to better meet the not so dumb criminal.

Intelligence is irrelevant to the most part. Maybe in a court a barrister might argue lack of intelligence in respect to the offender and his understanding of the nature of an offence but that's a fine line because if he succeeds he runs the risk of placing his client in the category of the court ruling he's unable to understand the process in respect to his own defence. That's a can of worms to be avoided for sure.

Always, always respect your enemy - not doing so is perilous.

Homophobic behaviour is psychological and driven by so many social, personal, idiosyncratic factors that it cannot be neatly placed in a category like lack of intelligence. It would never be that easy and even if it was - that is simply giving the offender a fast way out of responsibility for his own actions and telling society that it's not preventable because we cannot increase a humans level of intelligence.

I don't see how the article furthers the prevention of homophobic and unsocial behaviour in our community. It's click bait and somebody would be finishing off their studies or applying for a grant. Hopefully they'll go on to do something that is useful.
 

ms spock

Sponsor
I think you are missing my point.
I am missing your point and I think you are missing my point as well. At it's base I think your severe trauma as a child has meant you are being really concrete in your thinking and not seeing the abstract thinking and humour that goes with where I sit with this. This humour is a survival thing in the communities that I move amongst and belong to, it's psychological survival. I don't think I can understand your position, just as I don't think you can understand my position. We occupy completely different spheres.

Communities have to work out ways of leaving the house when people in their communities are literally being killed by racist, homophobic and transphobic violence. One of those ways in engaging in humour. It is life saving. Those that engage in this humour have much better mental health and resilience than those that don't. They also commit suicide a hell of a lot less.
If I went and made a blanket statement that in effect - People who are homophobic are stupid. How is that assumptions conducive to changing prejudice?
That's not the purpose of why I posted this - it was for the humour element, so that folks, who often face struggles leaving the house because of the fears of being victimised due to racist, homophobic or transphobic violence can have a giggle. I have experienced being attacked due to white blokes engaging in homophobia. Those white blokes where known to the religious people in my local community who saw them as harmless and uneducated. True they were uneducated but they weren't harmless. It wasn't until these white women saw these men once harassing a Muslim woman that they actually saw what I was talking about.
Are people who express prejudice as a reflection of the views expressed by their families, churches or other social influences too dumb to change?
That is not what I said. And I am involved in cross religious and also policy stuff where we are writing around white supremacy - how to prevent young white male radicalisation and then what's available for deradicalisation and spoiler alert in Australia there's nothing. I am also involved in strategic planning with a Muslim community and trying to get more awareness and education around not treating and viewing all Muslims as terrorists which hopefully will stop violence against Muslims. I can be active in the spaces which work towards assisting people to change and also have a wicked sense of humour at the same time. The two aren't mutually exclusive, I can walk and chew gum at the same time.
I am not going to cast a net so wide to include individuals who are uneducated, underexposed and haven't been afforded the opportunity to learn a different viewpoint or mindset, in the same group as murderers and rapists.
But they are rapists and murderers. Folks who are bigoted and prejudice have been involved in an upswing of violence against Asians around the world due to the racism promoted around the Coronavirus. There's not no one killing these people. The murders aren't happening from no one.

White supremacy is out of control in Australia, despite our intelligence warning us about the upcoming problems for the last two decades. White people don't want to see the white terrorists in their own families, communities and in their own midst. That colour blindness is enabling dangerous white people to organise and make plans that are going to end badly for all of us like Timothy McVeigh.

There's not no one killing Black and trans folks all across America. 10th Transgender Victim of Violence, Making 2021 On Track To Become Most Deadly Ever
Most individuals that I have come across in my life who are prejudice are not criminals, they honestly haven't been exposed or taught, and are reacting on their own unfounded fears based on stereotypes and generalizations
How do you know they have not raped or killed people? You don't. People who met my Father thought he was a really nice man. Well he was a nice man. He was a nice man that raped children. Just because you like someone, doesn't mean that they aren't violent towards People of Colour or other minorities. Your experience of them, is not everyone else's experience of them. I have experienced this first hand where white women insisted their men were harmless and uneducated and it wasn't until their men were caught, red handed that they finally believed me. Just because you haven't seen people in your community raping children, or being violently racist or harassing and stalking LGBTIQQA+ people, doesn't mean they aren't doing it, it just means you haven't seen it yet or they haven't been caught.

General ignorant people can be educated. But there's got to be some of them out there doing the violence, murders and the rape, or it wouldn't be happening around the world. It's happening. Someone is doing it. And yes there will be people that you know who say racist things or commit racist violence when you are not with them. It's just like saying all men don't rape, true, but it doesn't mean rapes are not happening. It doesn't mean that men you like aren't doing the rapes. You just don't know about them.
Instead of villainizing or generalizing groups, lets educate, provide opportunity, and most of all stop passing judgement on people based upon the color of their skin, their religion, sexual orientation or how they identify.
Doing that, engaged in multiple spaces, and I am still allowed to have a laugh as a bit of stress relief. It's sanity saving. I will stop passing judgement on white folks racism and the bigotry and prejudice against LGBTIQQA+ when people in those communities stop dying from that racism and prejudice. White folks hurt feelings are not on the same level as the literal deaths of people from minority positions. It's just not the same thing.

I want to be the change and in my little circle of contacts, that is what I will focus on.
I am in the change in my little circle of contacts. I am also part of the change in state and national groups as well. I am truly involved and engaged. I just don't share that work and those projects on this forum as it's not relevant to this forum.

I am involved in ongoing education with psychiatrists, psychologists, therapists, counsellors and psychiatric nurses. I am constantly bringing up how white cultural identity needs to be looked at, otherwise it impacts on your clients. They didn't' think it was a problem when I joined the group, but have grown enough now for some of their clients to thank them for being less racist/homophobic in their sessions. You are right education is the key.

Humour, is also, a way of surviving. And given the freely available racism, sexism, homophobic and transphobia that circulates in our society, white folks can suck it up now and again, and sit with the uncomfortability of someone else having a laugh at their stupidity or lack of education. It's good for white folks to start experiencing this, and grow out of their white fragility.
I would really hate to see what would happen to anyone that would try to hurt one of our group, because they are African-American, Muslim, handicapped, a lesbian, a communist, etc., because they are our family and friends and we love them. I honestly don't think there would be enough pieces to pick up.
I know that many white people think that they are inclusive of different communities that they are involved in, but my experience is every time the white folks disappear everyone talks about the stresses of being with the white, cis gendered, hetranormative folks in their lives. They love them and they don't want to lose them from their lives, so they don't have the hard talks because the white women often cry when they are challenged about the most minor of things. So they put up with it all.


My Muslim friends are exhausted from dealing with the Non Muslim folks in the Australian Hate Network due to their Islamophobia, but they have to work in those spaces, they they just suck it up all the time, day in and day out.

My Black friend who visits her white family members, rings me and cries about the racism after visiting her family. I worked with that woman, her racism toward children of colour was one of the reasons that I quit that job, because she thinks she is not racist and she thinks she is inclusive and she has Black family members, she gets away with it. She is in denial. So her organisation's view of her racism is very different to her families opinion of her racism.
 
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