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How do two ptsd sufferers not hurt each other?

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PreciousChild

MyPTSD Pro
I haven't posted in several years. When I first got diagnosed with developmental ptsd, I was reading a lot and coming here a lot. I did a lot of work and made so much progress to the point that I was not getting triggered hardly at all. I still do therapy and am re-reading Body Keeps the Score. Probably due to feeling more confident, I met someone who I started a long-term relationship with and we even moved in together - all told, we've been together for about 15 months. I haven't had a ltr since divorcing my ex a dozen years ago. I was actually happy to learn my soon-to-be-ex-bf also had a diagnosis of developmental ptsd, and thought we could share in a journey together. But the fact is, he doesn't go to therapy and does not relate his current feelings to his ptsd at all. So when he gets triggered, he takes all the negative feelings he becomes overwhelmed by and just points the finger at me as the cause. Not good. Long story short, we are in the process of breaking up. It's actually his idea. I think he feels unsafe and he told me he feels talked down to when I try to talk to him about what I've learned about ptsd. I think he's right that I've been too lecture-y.

In any case, my real reason for writing is to ask for advice about how to get through this transition. Because of the lease and our circumstances, we agreed to finish out another month living together, and I just want to make sure we make it the best possible transition. I think that when you have ptsd and are feeling aggravated and unsafe, you tend to get defensive and lash out at the thing you think is making you feel that way. We aren't loud people, so we don't have trouble with physical or verbal violence, and there is no addiction or other people involved, etc. We have integrity for the most part, thankfully. The main problem is that he wants recognition and accommodation for his pain and suffering, but he is completely unable to recognize my feelings, especially when he's acting out a trigger. How do people negotiate both people having ptsd? What if you have strong needs at the same time? Thanks for any thoughts you might have.
 
Hello @PreciousChild - such a long way you have come. :)

Honestly...any break up is going to be difficult. PTSD or not. And since neither of you can move out in the interim can you both sit down one afternoon and talk through some 'house rules' until you can separate? Idk what they may look like. It could be simply not engaging in rehashing the relationship and each other's faults.

It really sounds like you have given it a good shot and I am sorry it hasn't worked out.
 
Thanks blackemerald. :)

That's good advice. I read that total physical separation is best, and short of that, we're doing our best to avoid each other. But we do still share household work, and plus I have a 14 year old son who really likes him. We still might spend time together and some meals too while he's still living here. Bad idea? I think that I would still like to learn how two ptsd sufferers learn to help each other for future reference. Boy, it's tough to hear anyone when you get hijacked by the heightened alert state of ptsd.
 
Hey @PreciousChild - no I think you can still sit with each other and share meals. There is no need for a whole lot of hating to go on. Especially as you have a son who enjoys his company. If you can salvage a good friendship from this then that would be a great goal. It would be so healthy for your son to see that people do not have to dive from one end of a relationship to the other simply because they do not agree or do not want to live together anymore.

He sounds like a good man who cannot cope with his PTSD. But you know this and have the good sense to know that until he is ready you cannot help.

I don't even know anyone in my real world who has PTSD let alone try to live with them. I'm over the co-habituating thing so I have to make very few compromises. There is good and bad in that btw.

So, sorry if I am unable to help with your question.

Take care,
b1
 
I am sorry this is happening to you. I think all break ups are painful in their own ways regardless of health issues. the fact you recognize precisely what were the main ruptures such as he wanting recognition and accommodation while he is ignoring yours is powerful. It is powerful because it shows you truly tried to learn how to maneuver in a relationship that had a lot of stuff to start with.

For me I verbalize all my needs to my husband. I think almost all good relationships, the couple must at least hear each other's needs and want express to some great extent, otherwise, it is a problem to have a relationship. What we do not do because we talked about is tit for tat of anything. Like if you say this and the other person says that to even out. We do not do that or we do call on it.
 
Thanks b1 and grit. Love the tag, 'grit'. We all need that. haha.

I have friends who decided to give up on the romance thing altogether. I've been seeing the wisdom in that. After I started to heal from ptsd, I realized that the loneliness I was feeling when single was not "normal" but was a by-product of my complex ptsd. Almost for the first time in my life, I'm realizing why it would be important to really give myself what I need. When I feel settled again, I will be exploring that a lot more.

I have a question for you, grit. I find that the biggest challenge I've faced with my soon-to-be-ex is navigating the times when one or both of us are triggered. At that point, it almost doesn't matter how reasonable you are, the feeling of threat feels so urgent, you can't hear the other in any real way. In Body Keeps the Score, I was reading how when you're triggered, the time regions in the brain deactivate. So your brain loses current time and is literally reliving the past, and since it can't track time, it feels like it's stuck in that trauma forever without end. I see it in my stb ex bf's face - when he gets triggered, he's on high alert and ready to bulldoze over anything I have to say.
 
And grit, thanks for saying that it was powerful for me to recognize how to maneuver in a relationship. I'm happy for any progress.

I also realize how much stuff I was putting out there too. I was very much acting from the heaviness of my own ptsd. I wasn't compassionate and loving enough. It hurts me to say that because I hate that I still carry the cross left to me by my parents. But it's a reality-check I need - my parents' ghosts still pull the strings sometimes, and leave me with less compassion and love, exactly what I need more of.
 
Thanks PreciousChild.

For me one thing that drove my husband bananas when we met (before I went to therapy) was I would completely shutdown! almost like catatonic level...not quite but I may as well. And he hated this because he thought I was shutting him off on purpose!

Now, he knows why I do that and actually it relieved a lot of bad feelings on his part toward me. As for me, I learn how to say you are touching a wound which basically means, this conversation is no longer about whatever we are fighting about anymore. We respect our boundaries because no matter how much we lose it, we still want to be together so there is just that much deeper we rather not go.

I do recall one time honestly, and I am embarrassed to admit. I was throwing tantrum like a toddler screaming you do not see me!!! (I can laugh now cause wow...that was a moment) and he was shocked. The look in his face was priceless and one of pure fear like I am gonna explode but we talked about it and I tried to explain where I got stuck in my developmental and it really brought us closer.

I am in intense therapy now and group therapy so this helps my relationship greatly.

At preciousChild,
Please do not beat yourself up. Every relationship brings us closer to where we are going. I think you learned a lot from this relationship. And I am not saying. I truly read your thoughts and was impressed. Relationships are not easy for anyone. Yes our parents are pulling the strings but we can recognize one by one and cut them out one by one until we are doing the pull!

those friends who have given up are basically resigning that their parents took over their agency. Also on another note, I think to learn and grow one may not necessary need a romantic relationship as much as honest relationship where you can be you and express yourself fully and be still accepted.
 
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How do people negotiate both people having ptsd? What if you have strong needs at the same time?

I’ve mostly dated people with my brand of crazy... which has the interesting side effect of taking PTSD almost entirely off the table. Because everyone has symptoms, and history, but how they handle them? Is very individual. So it’s far more about lining up personality and values, lifestyle and priorities, than it is about anything else.

One of the most eye opening things about being here on this site has been the supporter section. Both because of the outside in perspective / explaining things I’ve never really thought about / putting into words that I know so well I’ve never taken a step back and attempted to verbalise... and because it has -so many times over- blown my mind at what people attribute to PTSD / excuse that they would never tolerate for even a moment, from anyone else. >>> The first piece is obviously useful, the second piece has been invaluable coming out of DV. Not because what most supporters are going through is abuse. To the contrary, the vast majority isn’t abuse. It’s about standards. And agency. And choosing how one wishes to live one’s life. How do you wish to be treated? Hard limits, soft limits, personal preference, compatibility, compromise... Relationships 101. Broken down Barney style, because PTSD doesn’t change anything / yet also changes everything, for many people. The exact same way a wheelchair changes everything & changes nothing. >>> I can’t recommend reading that section of the forum more highly. (Although also make sure to read the ‘Sufferers Read This Before Posting’ pinned to the top!)

So, for my own self, I negotiate both people having PTSD the exact same way I negotiate any relationship.

no I think you can still sit with each other and share meals. There is no need for a whole lot of hating to go on. Especially as you have a son who enjoys his company. If you can salvage a good friendship from this then that would be a great goal. It would be so healthy for your son to see that people do not have to dive from one end of a relationship to the other simply because they do not agree or do not want to live together anymore.

As to the other piece of your Q? Handling the breakup? I would say more, except IMO @blackemerald1 nailed it.
 
Thanks for answering my question, Grit. Your coping style is a lot like my sister's, who tends to shut down when she gets triggered. But a few years back, after she had been in therapy for a while, we took a trip together in a car, and she got upset by something I said and started yelling at me. I was shocked. But I was also happy because it felt like progress for her. I wanted to reassure her that her anger would not cause a major rift because I think people who hold back are partly afraid of "losing control" which prevents them from expressing themselves. I agree with you that some people who give up on love are probably letting their parents' legacy take over. But I have a friend for whom singledom has been a period of serenity, and I just hope that she is also healing/building herself.

Friday, it sounds like you have some good insights that I can learn from. I feel like I do have standards. My ex and I made it a policy not to blame, call each other names, yell, or vent. When we had a conflict, we did our best to calmly express ourselves using first person narratives. I also don't characterize anything we did as abuse. But I feel like there was an additional wall between him and me that seemed very much about ptsd. In Body Keeps the Score, van der Kolk also says that people with ptsd sometimes end relationships before they are "found out" and get dumped themselves. I feel that there are various possibilities that are related to ptsd specifically that could be affecting the situation. I agree that blackemerald's advice was a really good one. I think showing my son people can be friends even after a break-up is a great outcome if a difficult one to achieve. Also, I wasn't sure where to find the "Sufferers read this before..." pinned post. I'm not sure where to look. Thanks.
 
I'm finding the "live-in" situation very challenging, as a sufferer with a sufferer. Currently working towards living separately but still being in a relationship. We love each other very much and are both pretty worldy, in terms of having been in very harmful relationships and having learned what not to do. Having said that, the live-in sitch is bound to be triggery and those have to be managed.
I think recognizing what is going on, has been one of the most helpful things I have found.
It means the frontal lobes can take over and that's the only way to get a handle on things when the hypervigilant kicks in.
It takes a lot of self awareness, maturity, honesty and willingness to be open and communicative, I've found.
Having never had a secure attachment prior to this relationship, I'd rather gain my own space, so that I have room to work on my recovery and be able to get away when things are overwhelming, rather that wait for unresolved issues to ruin the safety we've built with each other. It's too precious a connection to just give up on us, but it needs to be kind to me and where I am at.
My kids like him too but we both have messy, complicated situations with kids and the other parents, so separate dwellings just gives everyone breathing space. Having said that we are still live in and I get away by attending a 3 week inpatients trauma program, now, since this year. Going back in a couple of weeks.
How do we not hurt each other? Lots of compassion (for self as well), patience, understanding, communication and empathy.
I hope this helps.
 
It takes a lot of self awareness, maturity, honesty and willingness to be open and communicative, I've found.

How do we not hurt each other? Lots of compassion (for self as well), patience, understanding, communication and empathy.

Words of wisdom. I think all of those are helpful qualities.

I had always imagined living with someone again. But maybe co-habitation shouldn't be such a part of my expectations. There's so much I like about it. But I have to admit that it's been challenging. Yes, when the hypervigilance kicks in, that's the hard part, and I find my frontal lobes aren't always up for the job.

It's been pretty status quo in the apartment. I'm feeling hurt still, but no drama.

Thanks everyone for your thoughts.
 
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