I lie every time I speak.

[OliveJewel]

I know this is weird and stupid. Sorry for insulting myself, I am struggling with that currently. Obviously no one can lie all the time, it’s not possible. But my sense of self is dissolving and so I can’t shake this feeling that I’m a liar to everyone. Might just be an excuse to punish myself.

It’s not that I’ve been intentionally lying but since I was raised by a narcissistic and a chameleon my thought patterns reflect that.

I think I posted on here a couple years ago that I deserve to be ignored. This is kind of like that. This is also in line with another distortion I’ve posted about which is believing I’m a dangerous person.

Just realized that if I always lie then I’m lying about lying 😹. Wonder where that leaves me?

Bottom line: I feel lost about who is the “I” responsible for my words and that I’m a manipulative liar because I have no core. I suspect that I’m doing the thing of identifying with my abusers again.

 

[Renly]

But my sense of self is dissolving and so I can’t shake this feeling that I’m a liar to everyone. Might just be an excuse to punish myself.

Low on words, but I often feel like I am a liar, too. The smarter parts of me realize it has a lot more to do with the abuse I endured AND the very strong compulsions I have to punish myself.

I’m working on in therapy becoming the “leader of my parts.” It’s hard and messy and I’m not sure I can actually accomplish it. But the idea is my “core” or “self” will be the leader and then things will be less “messy.”

The only other thing I can think of that may be relevant is that sometimes I’m a walking contradiction…my parts often want or feel 100% opposite or want a whole host of different things simultaneously. 2 (or more) opposite things can be true at the same time. Minds are complex.

Sorry I don’t have more insights, just wanted you to know you aren’t alone.

 

[Movingforward10]

Are you abandoning yourself so that's why you feel like you're lieing?

I totally get how you feel. And I think it's important that you highlighted being brought up by a narcissist and a chameleon, because that is significant in relation to this. Both of those requiretje child to abandon themselves, their sense of reality, their feelings, their core. So there is this displaced 'reality' that is created.
I said to my T in my last session "I twist the truth", and she reminded me to be kind to myself and not punish myself and realise that being triggered means renacting or reverting back to previous ways of being. Which is not twisting the truth but survival.

So maybe something like that is going on for you?

You're not a liar.
But I think when narcissists tell you that your reality is not real, it's easier to believe that we are liars than face the truth, because especially as children: what else could we have done?

 

[OliveJewel]

@Movingforward10 what you said is very powerful. I know it’s helpful but I’m feeling 💀. I know I will return to it when I’m able. Deeply appreciate your understanding and encouragement.

@Renly much thanks for the support and validation. Feels good to not feel so alone.

Am trembling. Going to try for a walk. Feels good to know I can come back to this when I’m ready.

 

[Friday]

Just realized that if I always lie then I’m lying about lying 😹. Wonder where that leaves me?

Labyrinth
One of us always lies, and one of us always tells the truth!

I lie every time I speak.​

Most people lie, almost constantly.

Their face & body says one thing, whilst their words say something else, entirely.

As a kid I thought I had to choose one, to believe, or to act as if I believed it. That lead to the classic ADHD-Social-Oblivious-Ish-Ness (vs) ADHD-Wise-Beyond-Your-Years paradox.

As I grew up? I learned it’s not a binary choice, but an incrediably complex interaction between what people presented & what they wanted others to do… based almost entirely off personality + “sense of occasion”. Meaning you could see 10 people “screaming” in pain, but presenting a tough exterior, (or “secretly” to overtly amused/bored/impatient/whatever, but presenting entirely differently) and have 10 entirely different motivations/desires of how they want others to respond to that conflict (or if they even want other people to see that conflict at all).

Which leads to a series of choices, on my part.

The result of those choices??? Then paints a picture of ME to both themselves aaaaand everyone else around them.

Adding in even more complexity, to everyday interactions at every level.

One of the benefits of moving around a lot as a kid, in and out of so many different cultures as well as places; meant I got to try out those choices, in all their infinite variation, “fresh” more times than I can count. With people I had no history, nor a future, with. Which -as a kid- was fun. A great game. By the time I got to middle school? Pfft. I couldn’t be arsed, anymore. (Which is when most kids start trying on different outward facing personalities / exchanging friend groups / start figuring out who “they” are in relation to other people / different ways of displaying those choices; clothes, attitudes, etc..). I quit playing according to cultural & “sense of occasion” rules, and just did me however the hell I felt like, in that moment. It lead to a whoooooole lotta fights, as I refused to “play the game” on principle. Especially with girls/women. Eventually I pulled my head out of my ass, and would play the “behave, how we expect you to; at least in public, with strangers” game. But it was never fun, again. Just something I was skilled at by virtue of long practice. Be this way here, be that way there, say nothing here, say this that way there. Blah. Vexing, boring, annoying, nonsense. Useful, though.

Spoiler: Aside

((And part of why I absolutely love and adore Mirand Lamberts “Mamas Broken Heart” where she’s rebelling against what she wants to do & what she’s expected to do.

Powder your nose paint your toes
Line your lips and keep 'em closed
Cross your legs, dot your I's
And never let 'em see you cry

It’s a very HUMAN frustration… those times between what you want and what’s expected of you? Are diametrically opposed.

But certain disorders turn “those times when” into a constant or ongoing point of friction. Some disorders -like HFA, or BPD- because they can’t see the interplay (on either end of the spectrum); whilst others -like ADHD- because of being bombarded by it.))

Add in PTSD years later? <low whistle> Take the “couldn’t be arsed” from middle school and multiply it x1,000 to DGAF … because I was back to the binary choices of my childhood… with people essentially standing beside themselves saying 2 different things.

That lead to a whoooooooole lotta unforeseen consequences, that I really don’t need to go into here (like becoming a sociopath magnet)… as well as the relavent piece here: ANY VERSION OF MY OWN “PLAYING THE GAME” = I’M LYING. No matter how expected, or desired, (or even legally enforced) “social editing” is/was. Like presenting as pleasant or professional, or not taking my shit out of people who haven’t earned it/don’t deserve it, language choices, wardrobe choices, abiding by laws & conventions of behavior, using discretion in choosing to whom I share how much, and when, with. Et Cetera.

It’s one of the things I’ve come to expect when my stress levels start rising, or my symptoms start spiking; the more black & white my reasoning is or knee jerks into? The more behaving myself = lying. As well as straight up exhausting. Until I just “can’t” anymore (without a meltdown &/or other consequences I’d like to avoid), or actually cannot (no matter how much I may want to / IE massive dysreg), anymore.

 

[OliveJewel]

Thank you @Friday

This song just came on my iTunes

😹🙄

Anyway, I am going to return to your post at some point. Right now I’m having the motivation to process MovingForward’s words.

Are you abandoning yourself so that's why you feel like you're lieing?

Maybe 🤔 will consider…

requiretje child to abandon themselves, their sense of reality, their feelings, their core. So there is this displaced 'reality' that is created.

This is important and my mind is still blocking me receiving it. Maybe I can return to it.

I said to my T in my last session "I twist the truth", and she reminded me to be kind to myself and not punish myself and realise that being triggered means renacting or reverting back to previous ways of being. Which is not twisting the truth but survival.

Just going to repeat your words to try to help me understand. Being triggered means re-enacting or reverting back to previous ways of being, which is not twisting the truth but survival.

The survival part is jumping out at me.

I am questioning about how and why I’m triggered into a feeling of survival. What am I afraid of? Is it related to needs? Maybe… because that just caused a kind of hot feeling to rise up the right side of my neck when I wrote “needs”. And there it is again. But I thought I was okay? I thought I felt held and like my needs were being met? 😥

Am I abandoning myself as a punishment?Do I agree that I’m abandoning myself?
I don’t know.

something like that

Yes, it seems so.

I think when narcissists tell you that your reality is not real, it's easier to believe that we are liars than face the truth, because especially as children:

My brain wants to focus on the concept of easy vs hard beliefs: what does that mean? Why would a belief be hard? I mean, I do kind of understand but I can’t articulate it. And then it gets back into the concept of forcing myself that I’ve been working on. Like do I force myself to eat? Do I force myself to not focus on SI? Sort of? But not like in a CBT way.

Forcing myself.
Easier to believe.
😰
Why would there be competing beliefs?

requiretje child to abandon themselves, their sense of reality, their feelings, their core. So there is this displaced 'reality' that is created.

Is the displaced reality the easier belief? Is that the triggered state? Is it easier because it’s survival?

I feel like I am *almost* getting it. Like practically there. But not quite. And have to take a break again 🥵

 

[Agita Kaput]

I know this is weird and stupid. Sorry for insulting myself, I am struggling with that currently. Obviously no one can lie all the time, it’s not possible. But my sense of self is dissolving and so I can’t shake this feeling that I’m a liar to everyone. Might just be an excuse to punish myself.

It’s not that I’ve been intentionally lying but since I was raised by a narcissistic and a chameleon my thought patterns reflect that.

I think I posted on here a couple years ago that I deserve to be ignored. This is kind of like that. This is also in line with another distortion I’ve posted about which is believing I’m a dangerous person.

Just realized that if I always lie then I’m lying about lying 😹. Wonder where that leaves me?

Bottom line: I feel lost about who is the “I” responsible for my words and that I’m a manipulative liar because I have no core. I suspect that I’m doing the thing of identifying with my abusers again.

OH. I think my life would be great if i just never did or said anything again.

 

[Movingforward10]

Just going to repeat your words to try to help me understand. Being triggered means re-enacting or reverting back to previous ways of being, which is not twisting the truth but survival.

The way that I see it, and sorry for using me as an example to explain but something like this:
My narricstic mum and enabler dad would deny me my reality, about little day to day things and large traumatic things. E.g. the time I went to show my mum my wobbly tooth. She then went and chased me round the house to pull it out. I was running and screaming and I assume scared. And when she succeeded, she laughed. And it remains a funny story. So 5 year old me has these feelings, that my mum hurt me and laughed (and still laughs). The message I get is that this is funny. So where do the feelings I had go? I feel bad about the situation (fear, hurt etc). But everyone around me says this is funny. So if the situation can't be how I perceive it (scary and not funny), then there is something wrong with me. The "twisting the truth" or "lieing" is triggered. For survival. Because if 5 year old me actually was able or could say "my mum is scary and I am scared and not safe", then what? I had no means of escape.
When I am triggered now, like with T, then I revert back to that. I immediately think T is unsafe, I placate, I appease. I am in my trauma survival mode. I "twist the truth", or as T says re enact. Survival.
I don't know if that makes sense or helps. But that's what I have learnt. I think!

 

[Agita Kaput]

The way that I see it, and sorry for using me as an example to explain but something like this:
My narricstic mum and enabler dad would deny me my reality, about little day to day things and large traumatic things. E.g. the time I went to show my mum my wobbly tooth. She then went and chased me round the house to pull it out. I was running and screaming and I assume scared. And when she succeeded, she laughed. And it remains a funny story. So 5 year old me has these feelings, that my mum hurt me and laughed (and still laughs). The message I get is that this is funny. So where do the feelings I had go? I feel bad about the situation (fear, hurt etc). But everyone around me says this is funny. So if the situation can't be how I perceive it (scary and not funny), then there is something wrong with me. The "twisting the truth" or "lieing" is triggered. For survival. Because if 5 year old me actually was able or could say "my mum is scary and I am scared and not safe", then what? I had no means of escape.
When I am triggered now, like with T, then I revert back to that. I immediately think T is unsafe, I placate, I appease. I am in my trauma survival mode. I "twist the truth", or as T says re enact. Survival.
I don't know if that makes sense or helps. But that's what I have learnt. I think!

Gaslighting without words

 

[Freida]

. But my sense of self is dissolving and so I can’t shake this feeling that I’m a liar to everyone.

maybe the old you is the lie (you're at fault, you're bad, you deserve to be punished, blah blah) and that's what's shaking up inside? To make room for the true you?

 

[OliveJewel]

@Freida yeah maybe. And maybe this in-between thing is SUPER uncomfortable for my ego.

Are you surprised that I’ve got some protector trying to block me from accepting your words? We’ve got discounting, anger, and amnesia working very hard to stop me from taking it in. Better take a break again. 😓

 

[Freida]

Are you surprised that I’ve got some protector trying to block me from accepting your words?

nope, not at all!
But here's the thing.
Before you wouldn't have been aware that it was a protector or what she was doing.
Now you can recognize it, thank it, and move forward

That's way past baby steps!