If someone has SI they are untrustworthy

OliveJewel

MyPTSD Pro
I have SI therefore I am, at my core, untrustworthy.

No one who cares about themselves would have an intimate relationship with someone who has SI, because how could you trust someone who tells their self SI thoughts? How could you trust someone to care for you if they secretly want to leave their life sometimes?

I don’t want that from someone else. Therefore I must stop the SI thoughts in myself. Which, of course, is like stopping a river by throwing rocks at it.

Which invites a return to isolation, not of everything, but of the private parts of me, of the parts that I wouldn’t wish upon anyone. 😕
 

arfie

MyPTSD Pro
dunno about the si part, whichever si it be, but i don't believe ANYBODY is 100% trustworthy. i wouldn't trust my doctor to fix my car, nor would i trust my mechanic to fix my body parts. equally, i don't believe anybody is 100% untrustworthy. my cosmetologist suffers both flavors of si, but she gives a mighty fine haircut. the whole family loves her.
 

lostforgottensoul

MyPTSD Pro
How could you trust someone to care for you if they secretly want to leave their life sometimes?
When did suicidal thoughts make someone not trustworthy? I've struggled with suicidal thoughts my whole life. First suicide attempt was at 8. But, I give anyone the shirt off my back, are there for anyone anytime they need, am on time and early for everything, show up to everything, and do my best at everything. I take what people tell me to the grave. Not to toot my own horn as I don't think I'm that great of a person but would consider myself trustworthy and most that know me (and know I struggle with suicidal thoughts as well as self injury) also consider me trustworthy.

I would say the same for self injury but based on the quoted statement above, I think you are talking about suicidal thoughts. That said, you can swap them out for what I said above and it still stands.

Why do you feel suicidal thoughts (or self injury) makes someone untrustworthy? Maybe that's the bigger question here?
 

OliveJewel

MyPTSD Pro
they secretly want to leave their life sometimes?
This is the reason someone would be untrustworthy
Suicidal Ideation

ANYBODY is 100% trustworthy.
Yes. I can remember it is a Spectrum. No splitting. No black and white.
Why do you feel suicidal thoughts (or self injury) makes someone untrustworthy?
Not investing in relationships while I am succumbing to SI.
one time or another.
This qualifier is part of the distortion for me because I understand that now and then is “most of us”. So more frequently is a wee concerning.

Everyone has it now and then.

It’s just a thing.

Why is it so shameful feeling? And intimacy blocking?

Could it be a bad habit? Only I can answer that.
 

Movingforward10

MyPTSD Pro
I wonder if this thought is reducing relationships into transactions? Something my T says I do. That hypervigilence thing. That looking out for the proof that the other isn't there? That lack of secure attachment.

Because having SI doesn't mean the person doesn't care for a partner and doesn't want to be with them or isn't invested in the relationship or is being dishonest. It just means they have SI.

The not investing in a relationship: it's not a constant 100%time thing. It's an overall thing. I wasn't thinking about E when I was dealing with the police and neighbours yesterday. But that doesn't mean I wasn't invested in the relationship,but that I was preoccupied with something that came up. Same as SI?
 

Rosebud

MyPTSD Pro
I think there is a difference between temptation and intention. Struggling with suicidal thoughts is different than intending on completing it. I also think most if not all people would prefer not to have them. Which doesn't mean however that they are intentional, and often yoked to depression or mental illness, or just burn out.

A person who struggles with SI may very well not be 'trustworthy' if it is defined as a greater likelihood of not being there forever. Then again, neither is the future of a relationship ever guaranteed when there is the possibility of illness- Cancer, Heart Disease, Strokes,ALS, Diabetes, etc etc, even Covid, or accidents, violence oer even old age. Or dementia, which robs the memory, or some TBI's. Or plain old irreconcilable differences, infidelity, etc. I think either commitment and love (different things entirely) can (one or both) exist or not exist for either person with or without SI at any given point in time.

How could you trust someone to care for you if they secretly want to leave their life sometimes?
I think @Movingforward10 said it best: "Because having SI doesn't mean the person doesn't care for a partner and doesn't want to be with them or isn't invested in the relationship or is being dishonest. It just means they have SI."

Most people have this feeling at one time or another
This is true. ^^ But it is up to the person with SI to manage their stuff (the only part one can control). To admit and take responsibility for how their issues impact on the other person or the relationship.

What I would share with someone at 25 weeks wouldn't be the same as 25 months, which would be wholly different than 25 years.

JMHO but I don't think it would help to worry a partner, they are not your therapist. I do think there is stigma and therefore shame around it. I don't think sharing it is intimacy-building, per se; rather intimacy allows to share what is authentic. I would not love someone less is they had SI if I loved them already, it's just part of the package of 'them'.

But if SI is getting in the way of intimacy, it might be helpful to work on the SI before focusing on relationships.
 
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shimmerz

MyPTSD Pro
I had a healer once who helped me with the concept of trust. 'You can trust everyone,' she said. 'You can trust a liar to lie. You can trust a thief to thieve.'

So I guess I would ask, 'A person with SI can't be trusted to .... what? What exactly aren't you able to trust about a person with SI? Can you be specific? And the flip side of that would be 'What can a person with SI be trusted to do?.

It sounds to me like there is a whole heck of a lot of unworthiness and self isolation thoughts that go along with this. I am sorry that is happening because honestly, while a person is in SI is exactly when they need compassion and connection.

I have been lucky enough to have a lot of exposure to people who suffer from SI episodes. Even some who walk around every moment of every day wanting to leave this planet. There is a video out there that many find helpful. You may or may not but the facilitators are excellent if nothing else. It is perfectly free and resides on youtube. Way better than the ASIST suicide prevention framework that I find to be manipulative and judgmental. It is called Alternatives to Suicide.


I hope you are able to find peace and self acceptance for yourself.
 

OliveJewel

MyPTSD Pro
reducing relationships into transactions?
My T practices Transactional Analysis so I thought all relationships were full of transactions? 🤷‍♀️
proof that the other isn't there?
Yes, this might be part of it.
investing in a relationship: it's not a constant 100%time thing
Helpful to remember. It’s not a block of perfection.
It just means they have SI.
It’s a nice thought but I don’t see how it could be neutral.
I would not love someone less is they had SI if I loved them already,
The phrase “if I loved them already” tells me that I need to be careful. This taps into the unworthiness feeling—a small part, I believe.
neither is the future of a relationship ever guaranteed
Helpful to remember, it is not a block of perfection.
I do think there is stigma and therefore shame around it. I
Yeah, I think so too.
I don't think it would help to worry a partner,
Agree. And this taps into the feelings of isolation, again which feels like a small part.
I hope you are able to find peace and self acceptance for yourself.
Thank you. As I reflect upon your wish for me I realize that I already experience peace and self acceptance nearly every day at some point. AND I also hear the SI thoughts.
When I reflect upon this split it leads me to my original question—how can I have both and still be authentic? They seem to cancel each other out? One of them is lying. I know it’s the SI. But it’s so incessant sometimes. I guess what’s weird is that when it does go away and I experience remission, there’s nothing that I’ve physically or willfully done—it just happens. Maybe it’s the recovery work that makes it go into remission sometimes. Why does it come back?
I think that’s part of my conundrum. Blaming myself for its presence.

a lot of unworthiness and self isolation thoughts that go along with this.

Yes, helpful to see that. So it’s a mix of things. Is it the SI itself that makes me untrustworthy? Or is the SI an outgrowth of feelings of unworthiness and self-isolation?

No, it seems that the SI triggers the feelings of unworthy and isolation. But what about the idea that @Movingforward10 gave of looking for evidence that someone who cares actually doesn’t. Could that trigger the SI, in order to give myself a reason to feel disconnected?

And what about the idea that this distortion indicates that I don’t trust anyone since everyone has something like SI at one point or another?

I am aware that one of the most trustworthy students of mine has SI because they disclosed it to me. That didn’t change my view toward them except to soften my feelings toward them. But that’s different because there’s a power difference. I’m providing care unconditionally.

An adult intimate relationship has to be considered conditional in order to be healthy-ish in my mind. Each person is responsible for themselves and however much of their partner they want to take on. This is the part that is so confusing to me as someone who only experienced enmeshment and codependency in intimate relationships prior to recovery.

Regardless here I am, trying to figure out how to navigate this adult world in an adult mindset. I do agree that everyone is worthy of having their needs met. But some people exhibit behaviors that make it difficult to be intimate with them. My sense of unworthiness and self isolation is what opened me up to love-bombing by narcissists in the past.

In my head I think, “If only I didn’t have this SI I could find a way to connect intimately.” Before I started recovery and realized I had CPTSD from csa I felt the same way about my compulsive skin picking. “If only I could control myself with skin picking I wouldn’t be so unworthy.” The skin picking and other compulsive behaviors have been mostly shed to where they no longer feel shameful or impactful. The SI has changed and gone away sometimes and I can push it away or ignore sometimes.

I know they are “just thoughts” and not every thought has to be given attention. That puts me in a CBT-like position. Where I feel like I’m not trying hard enough. But the reduction in other compulsive behaviors didn’t come from any kind of forcing or alternate behaviors. It just happened on its own as a result of the work.

So maybe I’m getting impatient with this? I’m concerned that it won’t go away. Even though it has in the past. And I’m confused how I could be authentic if sometimes I feel acceptance and self-forgiveness but other times I feel SI. And I don’t believe anyone without SI would want to partner with someone who had it, which leads to the unworthiness.

This might sound arrogant or offensive but I don’t want to be in an intimate relationship with someone who has SI. And so the fact that I have it is a conflict for me, and blocks intimacy with myself. I imagine that in an intimate relationship I would want to see myself in a partner and vice versa. I wonder if I am being unrealistic about my expectations.
 

arfie

MyPTSD Pro
This might sound arrogant or offensive but I don’t want to be in an intimate relationship with someone who has SI. And so the fact that I have it is a conflict for me, and blocks intimacy with myself. I imagine that in an intimate relationship I would want to see myself in a partner and vice versa. I wonder if I am being unrealistic about my expectations.

more problems are caused by similarities than differences. ~anon

that certainly is true in my own case. being around someone who has the same problems i do triggers me to psychotically unholy places. if we don't kill one another, we inspire one another to pointless public rebellions. two minds are better than one for creating chaos.

to my mind, it be a question of balance. good teams are built on contrast more than duplication. my relationship with myself gives me more than enough exposure to my own psychoticks. my healthiest external relationships balance the spiritual diet.

just opining. . .
 

Freida

MyPTSD Pro
I think that's too big of a question for a simple answer because there are so many levels to what causes SI.
Some people don't want to die, but they want the pain to stop.
Some want to die because they don't like living
Some want to die to punish others around them
Some want to die and have no idea why

But does that mean they are untrustworthy?
Depends on what you are trusting them with.

Are you saying you aren't trustable to be there for them when they you need because you are suicidal?
Or that you can't be trusted to give them the help they want because you are suicidal?
Or that you cant' be trusted because of the pain it will give them if you die?

And yep - those are pretty harsh questions because they are about the other person, not you.
But.
Would you really want someone in your life who would bail on you because you have suicidal thoughts?

And I'm not making light of it. I have people in my own life who are chronically suicidal and its a huge pain in the ass. But I also know their struggle isn't about me and my trust. It's about their pain

And ya, I already know that I may lose them to suicide. Which will piss me off.

But if I already know that, then what have they done to make them untrustable?
 
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