Issues with my mother and therapeutic approach to it

[ILoveLife]

I've been coming to terms with a few things from my past.

My parents were abusive, both of them, when I was growing up, in different ways. My father was Neglect, inc. with sexual abuse and my mother some neglect, physical abuse and emotional abuse. Then I started defending myself, got stuck on a retraumatization spiral for more than a decade, substance abuse issues and all The Wonderfully Cheerful Land of Crit A Trauma Relationships.

Then, I was sucked in a very serious psychotic episode and in the hospital I was told I had to go back living with my mother otherwise I'd be institutionalized. First it went alright, as long as I took all the blame for all that happened. Then I went back to therapy and started realizing I'm really not to blame. This has become an issue, because I'm not submissive anymore and I'm actually the one who manages our conjoint business and "brings home the large chunk of bacon", which also makes me dependent on my mother financially, but also makes me her boss at the same time, which is a really enmeshed and confusing situation.

Truth be told, she does feel guilt right now about a lot of things. Particularly concerning her attitude towards what happened to my father and not being available for me when all the 3 different sexually abusive relationships happened in different periods of my life.
But she's not exactly the best person there is, although she does have good qualities. Different Ts in my life have said she shows BPD signs, although I don't trust over-the-distance dxs, but I've been reading more about it and it does make sense. I mean, even if she isn't diagnosed, there are similarities and the approach to the relationship works when I take that into account, at least better than when I don't.
She's done therapy, which helped somewhat, and she takes meds "for depression", which diminished The Problems by a whole lot. There was actually a period there where she would stop the meds it all went to crap, but after a few very intense conversations that stopped and she has realized she is in fact better on them.

So, things are sort of okay most of the time, she's not exactly the most easy person to live with but she's not the most difficult either and when I'm calm and things are going well for me too, I'm able to deal with the dysregulation and even calm her down.

There are a couple of issues I'm facing at the moment.
One is I'm not really allowed to express emotions. Like if things aren't well for me or I'm not that positive, which are natural states of being, I'm immediately put down and told I have to be strong, I have to be positive, I have to... whatever. This is frustrating and causes a bit of confusion in my head, I feel I have to oblige to those demands otherwise I fail as a person.

Another issue is concerning my future. I think she's afraid of me leaving and abandoning her, so she's sort of attaching herself. I'm putting boundaries, and making it clear I won't be living with her forever, that in a couple of years once I finish my degree and get a regular job I'll be out.
When she starts attaching herself, I start wanting to GET OUT right now, and throw my degree in the bin and move to a far away land and all that. Not helpful, because then I freeze and I can't function because I'm constantly second guessing my presence in this degree. Things like, am I doing this to please her or for myself? So I get stuck.

But the heaviest issue is having to deal with the constant reminder of my childhood. I've not been heavily triggered into flashbacks or anything, had a dysregulation moment yesterday but aside from that I'm just sad and feeling hopeless, but I don't feel depression like it was before (completely imobilizing and thinking of suicide), I'm actually making plans for the future and holding myself accountable for my decisions and fighting for my future, I'm active and doing things around the house and taking walks, etc. I'm, by any standard, okay. It's just heavy and I start to daydream a lot - which I guess it is better than doing drugs, but escape is escape and I'd rather deal.

So, T's approach is for me to be the perfect daughter.
She's trying to make me see that all the good things I have come from my mother, that I should be thankful for her helping me when I was psychotic and that I should forgive my mother. I'm really not sure I agree with all of this, I don't see the therapeutic value in this approach and I much rather be realistic about it all.

First, there were a lot of influences around me growing up and my mother was not very present in my life. I was mostly raised by nannies, so the good stuff probably comes from them.
Second, I am thankful for her realizing I am her daughter and needed help, but in all honesty, she has way too much responsibility in getting me there in the first place for me not to be resentful of it either. Conflicting, to say the least.
Third, forgiveness is ... well, honestly, a tough subject for me. I've been wrecking my brain for months trying to understand why I should forgive. Everyone says peace of mind, but honestly I'm not sure forgiving would bring me peace of mind. Maybe it would, maybe I need distance to be able to forgive, or maybe I'm not a forgiving person and prefer resentment. I haven't really forgiven any abuser and I have no intention to, but to most I hold no resenment either, just indifference. Indifference has brought me peace of mind over certain abuses, and I'm working towards the same on the more unresolved ones.

Well, tomorrow I have T and want to explain and dot the i's, because @Freida has brought to my attention that maybe I've been minimizing the issue in therapy, and that's why T has this approach. So I wrote a piece of paper with past and current struggles and I'm bringing it tomorrow.

I would love to hear input.
Just so you know, I'm not being abused here. She's difficult and sometimes tries but I don't allow it anymore in my life, especially from her.

Thank you for reading if you got this far!

 

[MyWillow]

@Sietz I don’t have much to offer in the way of advice. Just wanted to share that you’re not alone. I’ve had to severely curtail contact with my Mum. Just talking to her on the phone triggers vivid flashbacks that leave me in a complete mess. She’s not abusive but turned a blind eye.

My equine T was working through options to reconnect me with Mum because I desperately wanted it. Unbeknownst to both of us that was triggering flashbacks that I was dissociating through. Now that I remember the flashbacks (without understanding the context) my psydoc’s classic line is “that is a memory. You don’t owe your parents anything.” It actually brought me a lot of comfort. My equine T broached the possibility of meeting with both my mum and me some time. I had a flashback right then and there in the paddock. Perhaps not.

My psydoc reminds me that I can protect myself like my mother didn’t.

I don’t feel that forgiveness is an important part of my journey. I don’t hate my family. I just wish they’d leave me the f*ck alone.

I do not rely on them AT ALL. And that was the best thing I ever did.

:hug:

 

[ILoveLife]

There's not much relying here neither to be honest, I was thinking about it reading your post.
There's a huge emotional distance, I don't tell her about stuff, I rely on the business for money not particularly on her, I cook and clean, you know, everything a person living alone does with the caveat of company lol
The times I did rely on her in the past were ... shitty.

I do my best to be a good daughter and not a hell spawn, mostly because being a hell spawn wasn't particularly helpful in the past.
I do try to have a good relationship since I do have to be here in order to build the life I want.
I could choose to go back to waitressing and leave this town and her house and be done with it, but I'm sure that wouldn't benefit me in the long run. Weighing the options, it's best to stick around for a couple more years than to run away. Not that running away is all that bad, but it isn't exactly the approach I want to this.

Besides, it's illegal here to abandoned an elderly parent, even if I wanted to. :p Which I don't, really don't. She isolated herself from friends and family (for good reason actually) and I'm the only one close.

And thanks :hug:

 

[MyWillow]

I think you’ve made huge leaps and bounds @Sietz

What you describe is NOT easy. One thing my T said is to establish the boundaries up front... “if you talk about xyz I will need to walk away/hang up the phone.” Knowing your limits up front - whether you voice them or not - can be really helpful. My Dad always started talking to my Mum as soon as she and I were speaking on the phone. It said everything about the family dynamics. She now knows better to call me when he is even home but in the beginning I would say “sounds like you’re busy Mum I will let you go.” It still hurt but it was a safer exit.

 

[ILoveLife]

Thanks :) Yeah, she starts with her meltdowns over me not being a perfectly cheerful and entertaining creature at all times and I walk away.

An old friend and me had the saying way back when "I don't have time for that" - we'd say that to anything that would be draining and time consuming, specifically toxic people.

 

[Abstract]

Hi Sietz,
All I can say is that you are definitely a stronger person than I am. I also suspect you are way more connected and self aware than I was at a similar age. I obviously won't presume to guess at what is right for you but your t's approach would have been very bad for me. Well done for exploring it. Sure you will come to an understanding of what is right for you and hope you can then spell that out to your t if need be.

I bumbled through many years with shoulds (internal and external) and too much empathy (for them not myself) without being able to see or prioritise what it did to me. I certainly wouldn't have benefitted from another push in the same direction I had always travelled. Understatement.

I am now never aggressive but am bluntly assertive and self protective. I don't mess around most of the time (sometimes slip of course) This earns me much disapproval from the person, the family and others. But I just can't any more. I now know the cost - most of the time. My ability to do anything else has almost disappeared. Its bare survival.

Also wanted to comment that sometimes the little things arent that little because of the long baggage of the past. Your past will be getting hooked in for you in this when she plays up.

My take on forgiveness? I think acceptance is necessary for healing in the longer run but not forgiveness. I read a lot on this and what rang true for me was if forgiveness happens too quickly before the real feelings and thoughts are acknowledged it can be another way of leaving things unprocessed. That happened to me. I have had to make myself allow myself the other stuff. It was still in there coming out in other ways.

Seriously my impulse is to say that you are never obliged to accept cr*ppy behaviour or make nice when the other person isnt being nice. That doesn't mean being aggressive of course but you have a right to stand your ground and not cowtow to her stuff when its unhealthy. Also to set as much distance or boundaries as you need. It doesnt matter about the rest. Her why and qualifiers. It also then leaves space for her to see if she can grow and meet you a bit.

As for sharing a business ??? That would be me, done.

 

[bellbird]

So, T's approach is for me to be the perfect daughter.
She's trying to make me see that all the good things I have come from my mother, that I should be thankful for her helping me when I was psychotic and that I should forgive my mother.

What's T's thinking behind this?
Like is it to help you get some peace of mind, or is it just because T thinks that's what you should do?

So I wrote a piece of paper with past and current struggles and I'm bringing it tomorrow.

I would love to hear input.

Kudos for writing the list.
I'd recommend to work with T on making some boundaries for you and your mum, based off your list.
You have come so far and you are putting in so much hard work. I think that your responsibility here is to focus on ways to keep building on that hard work to keep heading in the direction you are, rather than focusing on being someone's perfect daughter. The latter seems much more.. stationary, to me.

 

[ILoveLife]

Thank you both! :)

Seriously my impulse is to say that you are never obliged to accept cr*ppy behaviour or make nice when the other person isnt being nice. That doesn't mean being aggressive of course but you have a right to stand your ground and not cowtow to her stuff when its unhealthy. Also to set as much distance or boundaries as you need. It doesnt matter about the rest. Her why and qualifiers. It also then leaves space for her to see if she can grow and meet you a bit.

This is what I think too.
I wonder if T thinks maybe I exaggerate? Or that I am a lone wolf and need more connection (that seems to be a theme too)?
She's like that on every relationship I vent I don't want the unhealthy stuff to rub on me lol Like "be forgiving" yadda yadda. I'm not God, I'm not on earth for forgive anyone for their wrong doings. It's not like I have vengeful thoughts or anything, I just turn my back.
Regarding my mom, I'm here right? I have to make the relationship work because she doesn't seem interested on her side of the take a lot of the times. So, it's up to me and I've accepted it, but that doesn't mean I should be the perfect daughter at all times. Good grief I'm really annoyed by this.
But...

What's T's thinking behind this?

...I think like @Freida said, I may have minimized the issues in therapy and she doesn't understand the scope of it.

 

[bellbird]

...I think like @Freida said, I may have minimized the issues in therapy and she doesn't understand the scope of it.

Woops sorry, I think I totally skipped over that sentence in your OP.

 

[ILoveLife]

lol that's fine, it's a huge ass wall of text :P

 

[grit]

The T's take is so absurd I am appalled about this. No one can become perfect! No one!

I feel and I could be wrong, you are confused about what it means to be healthy and vital in life. Maybe zone in to what you need in life and what you want and start to work backwards to process the fundamental beliefs or kinks standing in the ways. If you get along with your mother today that is really great and should be applauded for because you are holding her bad side and good side and that means you are accepting your bad and good side. This is really good.


but I get the feeling this is not about your mother today but about something else?
I will throw something out there: let us say you want a relationship (if you do not have one now) and you simply finding this is a challenge for you, then it is worth to see how this challenge mirrors or parallels with the relationship with your mom. Then you can work on the specific feelings around this and integrate and see change in your core.

for example, just throwing ideas here: let us say you have a b/f or g/f and you feel she is clingy....and you are fighting all the time because she is clingy and you like your space. If you work on that with a therapist, it may come that your mother is clingy on you and you are repeating the pattern.

so my question, what areas in your life are being affected by your past and how much are you aware of and what are you doing about it.

our parents are our best and our perils.

for context, weirdly enough, I am not in relationship with my mother because she is proud to invalidate me in every way she can so finally I decided (40s here) life is too short. When I was with her, I could not hold one relationship because I was so preoccupied with her. I am not saying you are similar or different. Just giving you a context. Now if I feel running away due to stress or trigger, I think about my mother and I go...hmmm am I running away...but overtime, I realized, I never run away from my mother. We just not fit for each other and I accept her as she is and wish her well. My feelings dissipated about her. I am no longer carrying her in my mind in the present day.

 

[ILoveLife]

Ok, an update on this thread is needed.

I've been working hard on this issue. Mostly acceptance of her, acceptance of our past and acceptance of my own involvement in the situations I find myself in, particularly with my mother.

Had T last week and we discussed this issue, T thinks me and my mother kinda feed each other's dysregulation, and not one day after the appointment I noticed that happening, so I've been mindful of my presence, trying to not dysregulate when I'm around her, and that seemed to have solved the problem..

Thing is, I can manage her dysregulation but she can't manage mine. Thinks it's attacking, when it has nothing to do with her.

We also a had a major tears-sobbing-and-heartfelt conversation about our past together, what she did and didn't do and my father's involvement in all this, also her part of the family involvement too. It was enlighetening and major steps forward happened after that in our relationship.

I have no doubt it will be difficult again, but for now things are okay.

I'm not sure I want that approach, @grit. There are more habits and dynamics happening because of *my involvement* than others' mixing with others. That just confuses things for me. I've done it in the past.
What I have with regarding boyfriends and girlfriends has nothing to do with what I have with my parents, only my own patterns of behavior. I really don't look for people like my parents anymore.
But thanks for the thought anyway, @grit.