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My story of anxiety and PTSD

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The good news is that PTSD isn’t caused by drug use

Criterion H: exclusion (required)

Symptoms are not due to medication, substance use, or other illness.

I could be totally wrong and I'm totally willing to be told so and learn, but it was my understanding that Criterion H does refer to ongoing symptoms, not the initial Criterion A trauma.

Something being traumatic vs. something having the potential to cause PTSD based on the current DSM are different things.

Could that event be traumatic? Absolutely, though I still have lots of questions but that’s besides the point. Can it cause PTSD? According to the current DSM- no. It doesn’t meet any Crit A and therefore would exclude him from an official diagnosis.

Also, keep in mind that the ICD-10 isn't as specific in regards to trauma as the DSM-5.

A. The patient must have been exposed to a stressful event or situation of exceptionally threatening or catastrophic nature, which would be likely to cause pervasive distress in almost anyone.

What constitutes "exceptional", obviously, could be up for debate.

Because what I'm reading from the poster's description isn't "just" a bad trip or drug use, it does sound like a life-threatening (or threat of) situation (which is qualifying even under the DSM-5). See Freida's post.

So there is a thing called Excited Delirium which can be life threatening and it sounds similar to what you experienced. Not just a random high but an actual medical condition brought on by an excess of drugs. Maybe that helps? To see it as a medical emergency?


I'm not saying @Traveler has or hasn't PTSD. This is not for me to decide and I highly second the recommendation to get help of a therapist. Because regardless of whether or not this is PTSD, whether or not this is PTSD from this event or some other, prior trauma, therapy will help you greatly. However, I'd be careful to dismiss this notion as easily (I mean, it's not a "wife cheated on me" case as we had the other day)
 
I could be totally wrong and I'm totally willing to be told so and learn, but it was my understanding that Criterion H does refer to ongoing symptoms, not the initial Criterion A trauma.



Also, keep in mind that the ICD-10 isn't as specific in regards to trauma as the DSM-5.



What constitutes "exceptional", obviously, could be up for debate.

Because what I'm reading from the poster's description isn't "just" a bad trip or drug use, it does sound like a life-threatening (or threat of) situation (which is qualifying even under the DSM-5). See Freida's post.




I'm not saying @Traveler has or hasn't PTSD. This is not for me to decide and I highly second the recommendation to get help of a therapist. Because regardless of whether or not this is PTSD, whether or not this is PTSD from this event or some other, prior trauma, therapy will help you greatly. However, I'd be careful to dismiss this notion as easily (I mean, it's not a "wife cheated on me" case as we had the other day)
I'm not discounting him. Excited delirium is a horrible trauma. I was hoping giving what happened a name might give a different perspective
 
I could be totally wrong and I'm totally willing to be told so and learn, but it was my understanding that Criterion H does refer to ongoing symptoms, not the initial Criterion A trauma.

Both.

If a current symptom is caused by a substance, it’s not a symptom of PTSD. It’s a symptom of the substance. Including it in the list of symptoms being evaluated would be silly. Sometimes difficult to determine (shakes from drug withdrawal, shakes from anxiety from drug with drawal, and shakes from anxiety alone all look like the shakes. Because they are but the cause is different. Ditto if someone has a tremor, or nerve damage, etc.), but still counterproductive to assign symptoms from one condition to another.

If the entire range of symptoms was initially caused by a substance, it’s also/still not PTSD. Excited Delirium is a great example of that. So is drug induced psychosis. They’re each their own conditions, with their own treatment and timelines.
Because what I'm reading from the poster's description isn't "just" a bad trip or drug use, it does sound like a life-threatening
Most bad trips and bad reactions to drugs are life threatening. (As are many other things that fall under either normal life or their own categories.) Drugs/Substances/Medication fall under their own category (and sub categories) because they have extremely predicitble paths they follow, depending on the types of drug, and level of reaction, and a few other factors. Cause, treatment, & prognosis are all different/unique enough to rate their own categories and subcategories.
However, I'd be careful to dismiss this notion as easily (I mean, it's not a "wife cheated on me" case as we had the other day)
I have no idea where you got the notion of my discounting them?

- You could still have PTSD from earlier trauma, and this triggered that.
- You could have any number of other disorders that can be triggered by drug use (although the good news here is that most are fairly self limiting, rather than lifelong, like PTSD).
- You could have PTSD from earlier trauma AND a drug induced disorder.

There are a huge/profound/ginormous range of things in life that don’t cause PTSD. PTSD isn’t a pain-scale. It’s not like, if it was THIS bad (painful, scary, whatever)... it’s PTSD, but if not? Meh. Not that bad. Drug-induced conditions -or at least some of them- are arguably one of those things in life that are far “worse” than CritA trauma... because certain drugs throw open the fear & pain centers of the brain, whilst removing the filters that allow someone to self regulate (thoughts/emotions/actions), and quite possibly remove the filters that allow someone to determine dream from reality. A nightmare you can’t wake up from (because you are awake) where what you imagine becomes real, with no ability to direct or moderate your emotions, thoughts, physical reactions to things because they’ve been chemically stripped??? That, morever, is going to have a list as long as your arm of expected after effects and symptoms as the drug clears your system and the body resets itself, and the mind attempts to cope (not the least of which being separating fiction from reality, but also things like craving something you hated at regular intervals, flashbacks/hallucination/delusions cropping up not because of external triggers/reminders but because it’s 6months and post acute withdrawal is starting to set in, etc.) :confused: (and that’s the overlysimplified short list). You think that might just rate it’s own focus in how to best treat it?

Or should we just dump them in with other groups of people they share symptoms with -delusional disorders on Monday, trauma disorders on Tuesday, addicts on Wednesday, bereavement on Thursday, seizure disorders on Friday, anxiety disorders on Saturday- and tell them to suck it up & figure it out? Most of what they hear in those groups won’t apply, but clearly what they went through isn’t important enough to be taken seriously. O_o
 
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I don't know shit about drugs so I actually thank you for the insightful explanations.

(though I'm still not quite sure why we keep being so fixated on "Criterion A" of the DSM-5 and completely disregard the ICD-10 criteria being much more vague, also ignoring the fact that the "Criterion A" list of qualifying traumata is not fixed and has been changed/expanded in the past. Or most of us here wouldn't have PTSD as we're not war veterans... . But I'm really genuinely not seeking confrontation :) Because, eventhough it may not seem like that, I get what you're saying - see above, I didn't know all those info on drugs and for me there was no different between a heart attack - qualifying - and a life threatening drug-related reaction. Now I know better )

Or should we just dump them in with other groups of people they share symptoms with -delusional disorders on Monday, trauma disorders on Tuesday, addicts on Wednesday, bereavement on Thursday, seizure disorders on Friday, anxiety disorders on Saturday- and tell them to suck it up & figure it out? Most of what they hear in those groups won’t apply, but clearly what they went through isn’t important enough to be taken seriously. O_o

I didn't say that nor imply that and you know it ;)
 
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