Probably just self-pity

[Muttly]

wrote a big long thread and hated every word of it. kind of the point. Nothing we feel or say seems right.
Want to say I'm tired and want to give up but then want to say that's just whining. But then if we say that we are being manipulative. If we say that we are being even more manipulative and attention seeking. Want to say we are fine but then we aren't dealing with stuff. If we stay silent... think we going to go off the rails in an even bgger way than we are right now. But then, that's probably a manipulative thing to say too and so it starts all over.

some facts
we have an injured back and probably will need surgery. can't work. dealing with fmla stuff and doctors and all that stuff
we had to cancal our thankgiving trip that we were counting on to help our mood because of the back
we are entering into our worse PTSD time of year
we recently got back into contact with the dad after no contact for years

it might be that we are in a lot of pain but that's not a fact. that could be us just whining

dunno. those whole post seems stupid
think pretending we are fine is the better way to go
think believing we don't matter is the better way to go
(and the whole thought chain of selfish, manipulater, attention seeker started all over again)

 

[Freida]

This is an awesome thread because, welllll, I wonder the same thing about myself all the damn time (shocking I know)

Guru once told me that the difference between self pity and healing is one is tied to wanting people to pay attention to you, and the other is you paying attention to yourself to do the work you need to do.

Ya - kinda convoluted but made sense.

think pretending we are fine is the better way to go
think believing we don't matter is the better way to go

ya...we both know that doesn't work - no matter how much we want it to

I think the whole self pity thing should be a criterion of it's own because it shows up so much around here!

 

[Muttly]

Guru once told me that the difference between self pity and healing is one is tied to wanting people to pay attention to you, and the other is you paying attention to yourself to do the work you need to do.

not sure I can tell which one I'm doing right now.
I want so much, right now, to give up. so doesn't that make it self-pity?

 

[Sideways]

if we say that we are being manipulative

One of the things I love about this being a peer support forum is you tend not to get pity. You get empathy. And there's a big difference between the two.

So, you may feel like you're being manipulative, but even if you were trying to get pity here (which, you're not), you're not likely to succeed at that. You'll get empathy in spades, because there's folks here experiencing things similar to what you are. Empathy yes, but not pity.

we are in a lot of pain but that's not a fact. that could be us just whining

Yeah, "I'm experiencing a lot of pain", and "My pain levels are higher than usual" both register as facts for me. And evidence that something in our body needs attending to - that's what physical pain is for. So, recognising and responding to pain? Is attending to basic physiological needs. Nothing more, nothing less.

Want to say I'm tired and want to give up but then want to say that's just whining.

And throwing the cognitive distortion book at this one. Thanks brain, but communicating how we're feeling, in this space, is using the space for the exact reason it exists.

If that doesn't resonate, compare all the threads written by other folks. Are they whining? Or working through stuff? And, is there anything manifestly different about me and mine...?

 

[Freida]

I want so much, right now, to give up. so doesn't that make it self-pity?

nope.
That makes it a really, really bad day full of pain and ptsd and struggling to find some peace.
That's the kind of day that deserves a pity party. Oh ya, i said deserves. Because sometimes what we think of as a pity party is taking care of ourselves by admitting we are in a bad place and letting others help you. It's kind of why this whole place exists
Because we get it.

So, you may feel like you're being manipulative, but even if you were trying to get pity here (which, you're not), you're not likely to succeed at that. You'll get empathy in spades, because there's folks here experiencing things similar to what you are. Empathy yes, but not pity.

Yes! This!
My t and I have gone round and round on this for years. I don't understand the difference between pity and empathy. Well, lemme rephrase that --- We have identified that when it's directed at me it's pity...When it's directed at someone else it's empathy.

If that doesn't resonate, compare all the threads written by other folks. Are they whining? Or working through stuff?

Ohhhh ya! This too!
Have you ever noticed that sometimes people come here and start to whine whine whine, and then they wander away? Not because they are booted out - everyone deserves to be here. But because this place is to help heal, which means allowing ideas from others, willingness to ask the hard questions, and willingness to engage in the answers. Like you are doing right now. So it can't be pity

Pity = feel sorry for me - but don't ask me to do anything to change
You = I'm really struggling today, can anyone relate or have any ideas?

Big difference (says the pot to the kettle! )

 

[Muttly]

So, recognising and responding to pain? Is attending to basic physiological needs. Nothing more, nothing less.

I guess so. But my brain says that as soon as you start talking about pain, it's attention seeking.

If that doesn't resonate, compare all the threads written by other folks. Are they whining? Or working through stuff? And, is there anything manifestly different about me and mine...?

You = I'm really struggling today, can anyone relate or have any ideas?

I just don't know if I'm actually working through anything at this point or just wallowing.

So much of my thoughts are filled up with the want to just quit. To be dead. (not actively suicidal). And I'm so freaking tired and unmotivated. All of that seems to imply I'm just wallowing. Especially if I'm talking about it.

Because sometimes what we think of as a pity party is taking care of ourselves by admitting we are in a bad place and letting others help you.

Ah. And here's the thing. I have so many thoughts about needing help.-
I shouldn't need help
If I need help I'm manipulating or attention seeking
I am a burden
I've used up my quota of help
I shouldn't have needs

We have identified that when it's directed at me it's pity...When it's directed at someone else it's empathy.

Yes, I guess I feel the same

 

[somerandomguy]

I shouldn't need help
If I need help I'm manipulating or attention seeking
I am a burden
I've used up my quota of help
I shouldn't have needs

But none of this is true.

Where did you learn that having needs was wrong?

 

[DharmaGirl]

we have an injured back and probably will need surgery. can't work. dealing with fmla stuff and doctors and all that stuff
we had to cancal our thankgiving trip that we were counting on to help our mood because of the back
we are entering into our worse PTSD time of year
we recently got back into contact with the dad after no contact for years

The first line is enough to cause a spike in symptoms and depression. I've been through it and the reaction to it is real. The 2nd line is also enough by itself to cause depression but coupled with the first...twice as bad. The next line again is a huge stressor on it's own, but coupled with the others is crazy making.

It's ok to feel bad. You aren't making stuff up or looking for attention, you are feeling true feelings. This sucks. Can you allow yourself to just feel them and stop fighting them? Fighting them won't make them any less. Maybe join in this thread for the lack of motivation: Goal for the day ~ Just one thing

 

[Muttly]

Where did you learn that having needs was wrong?

my family of origin.
And really school initially

Can you allow yourself to just feel them and stop fighting them?

I'm afraid I'll drown in emotion. I'm already having sui and self-harm thoughts. I'm keeping it in the background but if I let myself feel? it seems like those are just going to get worse.

@Freida Just exhausted for today. Thinking of calling today my pity party and giving up on the idea of getting things done. Not sure if that qualifies.

I do have to take my dog to the vet (where I work when I'm not out) and pickup some pet supplies.... and honestly maybe that's part of what has made today worse. I need to buy cat litter and litter for the guinea pig. They are both heavy. Getting them to in the cart and then to my car is going to be hard. Getting them from my car to my house will be harder. Theoretically I could ask for help but that makes the self-hate run circles in my head.

Gah, sorry. I suspect I'm being difficult.

 

[Movingforward10]

I suspect I'm being difficult

Why? You're going through a challenging time. I don't hear anything you're writing as you being difficult. You're exploring how to manage all this on your plate right now.

I need to buy cat litter and litter for the guinea pig. They are both heavy. Getting them to in the cart and then to my car is going to be hard. Getting them from my car to my house will be harder. Theoretically I could ask for help but that makes the self-hate run circles in my head.

Is it possible to get it ordered online and get the delivery person to put it where you need it?
Or buying a smaller package of litter that isn't heavy for now?

And it is ok to ask for help. Perfectly and totally ok. People like to help. It makes them feel useful and needed. Nothing to feel bad about at all. We're social animals, we need that interaction and support.

Sitting with you @Muttly.

 

[Freida]

@Freida Just exhausted for today. Thinking of calling today my pity party and giving up on the idea of getting things done. Not sure if that qualifies.

Yes!!! it does!
Think of it as good practice

 

[Sideways]

Dysfunctional untruths that were drilled into us as kids can be incredibly hard to shake. The little voice in the background having a go at us constantly, echoing the things that we were taunted with as a child, long after the abusive person has left our day to day existence.

This voice telling you that feeling and talking and asking for help is not allowed? It wasn't true then, and it isn't true now. You deserved love as a child, and compassion now that you're an adult.

That's hard to take on board. Now may not be the right time to start reparenting. But when that voice starts up, it's just a voice. Thoughts, not truths. It's just an echo of things that should never have been said to you. And as persistent as it is, you're allowed to disregard it. The thoughts will come, but you don't have to give it time or space anymore. The thoughts can come and go, without us needing to follow them, or engage with them.

What are the things you can do to look after your needs right now? Starting physiologically if emotional needs are too hard. What are the things that have helped you in the past?