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Sufferers: Why can you act 'normal' around others but not those most important to you? What should supporters do?

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Bananamango

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I'm aware this phenomenon is common, and I've seen a few posts from newbie supporters about this recently, so I'm pretty sure I won't be the only one who would like to better understand. I imagine it can vary from person to person, but any of your insight would be appreciated.

I've recently been experiencing this (again) with a close friend of mine; goes in cycles when he isolates, but he always comes back friendly. In my personal case, I can't really discuss things with him. He's extremely private and shuts down if you try to discuss anything. So I'm always guessing what I should be doing or what he actually wants/needs.

I'm hoping some of you are able to explain why this happens and also, what is best for us as supporters to do?

Some questions to prompt you, but please add in whatever I've missed!

SUFFERER THOUGHTS/FEELINGS:
What are you thinking/feeling when you have to decrease interaction with us closest to you? Can you explain why you have to?
What are your fears if you interact with us (if you have any)?
When you are interacting with other people, do you actually feel sort of 'normal' or are you mostly faking it to appear normal?
If you are faking, doesn't that take a lot of energy too? (Wouldn't it be easier to just sort of isolate/interact less with everyone? Why just certain closer people?)
Do you feel bad you have to cut us out (guilt or shame, embarrassment?) or are you too busy just trying to survive?
Do you realize we are aware you are avoiding us/interacting with us?
Do you ever worry when we give you space/change our normal pattern of communication that we are angry with you or that we might leave/abandon you?
Is it because we are triggering you? Would that fluctuate? (If we were a trigger, wouldn't we always be a trigger, not just in a cycle pattern when you isolate?)
How do you feel when you try to 'come back' to us? What are you thinking then?

-----

WHAT SHOULD SUPPORTERS DO?:
Obviously, if we plan to have a relationship with you we MUST give you the space you need and respect what you specifically request, but if not in a super-close or romantic relationship, sometimes clear 'guidelines' are not given/unable to be discussed and we have to guess! I definitely know we must respect your wishes, and have read on here that when people don't, it doesn't tend to go well. But what do you need/want?

If we run into you:
Is it still okay for us to be friendly with you (wave or just say hi, without conversation) or would you prefer we not really acknowledge you unless you initiate, or would you prefer/appreciate if we just try to avoid you completely? (I've sometimes wondered if you feel anger/pissed off in that moment in seeing us....do we cause you to feel anger? I'm maybe just sensitive...) We don't want you to have additional stress wondering if we are angry with you for your decreased contact or when we decrease our contact with you... Maybe not something you even think about...but we do.

Communication:
If we normally text or email you periodically, should we maintain the same pattern/level of communication, as if things are normal, or completely stop or just slow down? (We definitely don't want to stress you, but also don't want to make a big deal of the situation so you feel awkward or abandoned in any way....what is best for you?)

When you 'come back':
I'm assuming it's best to just kind of go on as if it didn't happen? I'm imagining you maybe don't want to talk about it or maybe feel awkwardness, so just continue on as usual?

You can see I'm making some assumptions here, and from what I've learned on the excellent 'What are they thinking?' thread started by Freida, it seems supporters and sufferers are on totally different planets, so I may be out to lunch! Please correct anything I've got wrong. We're just trying to learn and respond to you in ways that are helpful, not hurtful--I hope I haven't offended any sufferers in any way with any of my (hopefully not stupid!) questions!

Thank you for your help in understanding!
 
For me, I find I pretend a lot, so much so that I am not really sure who I am in the sense that I don't know which part of what I'm doing is real and which part is an act, because I have been doing this all my life. That said, I find it easier to pretend around strangers than around family and friends. I am not fully sure why, but it has to do with what that person knows about me. If they know nothing then I go all out 'normal' as I do not want them to know any different. I don't want them to know the other side. I think it has to do with playing the expected role and not wanting to stand out. Also, I don't want them to know the personal stuff as it makes me vulnerable and I don't want that, it is to protect myself in a way. I also feel that if they knew everything, then they wouldn't want to associate with me so by appearing normal I avoid the shame and disappointment, as well as the prying questions that come with it.

With family and friends, I know they know and it in a way gets in the way of my acting 'normal' around them. Just the thought that they know, it makes me feel vulnerable and open and it is terrifying, even though I know they won't do anything at the same time I have to consider the possibility of what if, and it is hard to shake that feeling, so I am always ready to just submit to whatever.

At the same time when I get certain feelings, no matter how much I would want to talk with family and friends about it, I just can't bring myself to do it. I know they would want to help, but at the same time I don't want to unload on them and burden them with my problems. I don't want them to experience what I am experiencing. So I isolate myself or pretend to be okay to avoid that. I know that doing that may make the situation worse and make them feel worse, but I just cannot bring myself to say it to them and upset them. In my mind them feeling bad for not being there is worse than them feeling bad for knowing all these things and being unable to fix me.

When I do isolate myself, sometimes I don't want them to come around me and I just want to be by myself. Other times I would like them to come around and be there but I don't want to talk about my feeling or anything I just want them to be there. Just to sit there but not say anything or to talk about random or normal things as a way to distract me without being obvious. Or sometimes I like when they tell me their problems. It sounds bad but its comforting to know that I'm not the only one with problems and that even they too do have problems though they may be different but to me it doesn't matter because a problem is a problem no matter the topic. It makes me feel good if I'm able to suggest something to them to help them or even to just be there for them like they are there for me so that I feel like less of a burden to them. I think feeling like a burden to my family and friends is a really big thing for me because I feel like I am just using them and they are getting nothing out of me being there. I feel like it would be better if I weren't there so that they wouldn't have to be carrying my baggage and they wouldn't have to suffer because of me.

Sometimes though when I isolate myself it isn't because I feel depressed, but I just want to be by myself. Having to 'perform' and act normal around others is really tiring and draining and sometimes I just want to be by myself. Having to act all day around strangers, when I get home I just want to relax, unfortunately that also means isolating those who want to be there for you but by the time I get home I am one the edge of collapse, and that means I have no patience, so I may snap at people and be short-tempered. I try not to but it is very hard to control when I have all my other emotions that are starting to break through and in a sense the make-up I had on for the show is rubbing off and the real me is being seen.

It is hard to say what you should do to help out because sometimes I doing even know what I want. It changes depending on so many things and sometimes I think I want one thing but when I get it I realize it isn't what I want. And so it is frustrating for me, as I am sure it for you because you only want to help, and it makes us feel bad when we are unable to help the ones we care about.

Personally when I come back, I try to be as subtle as possible and not make it obvious. I dont want the questions or the looks. I just want everyone else to go on as they would normally. but that is just me and it may be different for someone else. With my family, I would just quietly go sit in the living room when they are watching tv. Most times I am not watching the show and I am still deep in my thoughts but it is just comforting to know that they are there. Sometimes its more and I may go and lie in their laps or rest my head on their shoulder. I don't really expect anything or want anything from them but its just that it is comforting to know they are close by. It gives a feeling of safety.

I know this is a lot to read. I hope it helps.
 
I know this is a lot to read. I hope it helps.

Excellent read, all very helpful. Thank you so much for taking the time.

That's alot of questions! ;) Check out the thread "What are they thinking?" started by @Freida. There's tons of information there and alot of your questions are addressed. Your friend is lucky to have someone who wants to educate themselves about the disorder. Welcome to the forums!
Thanks ?--he has no idea how hard I've had to work at understanding him! Made a few mistakes here and there, but all with good intentions and before I knew what was going on. It's actually been 2.5 years I've known him and this forum has been exceptionally helpful. I finally joined and posted. I've been watching Freida's thread and it IS excellent. And periodically it addresses this and isolating/ghosting which is sort of related, but I've had some specific questions about why they can't be 'normal' around those closest that are never really answered fully, and it's one of the hardest things for me to understand with my friend. And I can't talk to him about it and ask what he needs. He thinks talking about relationship stuff is petty--just sweeps it under the carpet and tries to move on. We've had some rocky patches where I almost gave up, but I'm glad I haven't, at least not yet! It can be hard though. I've had friends tell me to bail on him because they think he's just being an ass and don't understand what's likely going on, but I know he's a really good person. And because he keeps coming back, I must be providing something to him. As long as I don't get hurt and can still have fun with him, I think we can be good. Fingers crossed. It has definitely tested me!
 
Because it IS acting. The exact same way you act healthy and on top of things at work when you have a terrible cold, come home and fall apart having used up all your available energy putting up a good front. Until you don’t even have enough energy for that & phone in sick. The worse you feel the more you isolate, the better you feel the larger your life becomes.

It’s easy to be nice to the delivery boy dropping off your Chinese. Important relationships are handled differently. Sometimes they’re the ones you’re relaxed enough around to be yourself with, other times they’re the ones you protect from taking your shit out on by phoning in sick for the duration.
 
It’s not really that different for sufferers of PTSD than that of the rest of the world. Everyone puts on a face to some degree to the general public and the world that is more together than those closest to them.

That’s normal.

Most of the questions you are asking are good ones, and there are a wide range of answers - different sufferers prefer different ways of handling these things.

At the end of the day, talking to the person(s) in your life that have PTSD and asking them some of these questions is the *best* way to know what they are thinking and feeling and what would help them. You don’t need it to be a big discussion about pathology and etc. Make it casual. Simply ask him in the email/text/contact, “Would you like me to keep contracting you or give you space?”

Dropping statements like “it’s always ok to say I need space or say no” - invites a very private shut down person to possibly consider it’s safe to say no when they need to say no and etc.
 
I’ll be honest in saying that this is a reaaaaaly long post. Many of us have a hard time reading long posts so you may get fewer replies for this reason. I know you just want to understand, I’m just sharing yet another common ptsd struggle——reading comprehension.

Having said that, I’ll still give it a go.

Mind you this is my perspective. You can’t paint us all with the same paintbrush.

And, you won’t ever fully understand so at some point you should say ok I understand enough, now I just need to accept this for what it is.


“What are you thinking/feeling when you have to decrease interaction with us closest to you?”

For me it’s an overwhelming urge to have space and be away from people. The only thing I’m thinking is how to make myself feel better.

“Can you explain why you have to?”

It’s just an incredible urge that has to be acted upon in some way or another. Get space now so I can feel better, or else things just get worse. It really is a part of self care and self preservation.

“What are your fears if you interact with us (if you have any)?”

Trying to reconnect makes me feel shameful so reconnection gets delayed. It does not matter if you say it’s ok, all is forgiven. The shame/guilt factor is still there.

“When you are interacting with other people, do you actually feel sort of 'normal' or are you mostly faking it to appear normal?”

Both an act and feeling normal.

“If you are faking, doesn't that take a lot of energy too? (Wouldn't it be easier to just sort of isolate/interact less with everyone? Why just certain closer people?)”

No, faking it around strangers or acquaintances is the easiest thing. This is why we do it. We can meet our need for human contact while having virtually zero demands placed upon us. I think this is key. We are social animals. Please don’t throw a hissy fit when we interact with other people because you are essentially saying “if you don’t interact with ME, you shouldn’t even attempt to have a basic (BASIC!!!) human need met.” Put in this context can you see how this seems selfish to me? Isolation is fcking lonely. Don’t guilt trip me because I am making an attempt to have a minimum of human contact. (Yes this gets my goat.)

“Do you feel bad you have to cut us out (guilt or shame, embarrassment?)”

I only feel bad when it comes time to reconnect. Before this point I’m just trying to stabilize.

“or are you too busy just trying to survive?”

Yes, this mostly.

“Do you realize we are aware you are avoiding us/interacting with us?”

This is N/A for me. Everyone knows when I’m isolating.

“Do you ever worry when we give you space/change our normal pattern of communication that we are angry with you or that we might leave/abandon you?”

Yes.

“Is it because we are triggering you?”

Not necessarily.

“Would that fluctuate? (If we were a trigger, wouldn't we always be a trigger, not just in a cycle pattern when you isolate?)”

It’s not YOU that is the trigger/stressor. It may be that we need alone time. We may have run out of spoons. We may need to recharge. We may need to feel safe again. Etc.

“How do you feel when you try to 'come back' to us? What are you thinking then?”

Guilty. Oh fck I know I won’t be forgiven yet again.

“But what do you need/want?”

I just need time and space.

“Is it still okay for us to be friendly with you (wave or just say hi, without conversation) or would you prefer we not really acknowledge you unless you initiate, or would you prefer/appreciate if we just try to avoid you completely?”

Ok I think that you’re overthinking things. Yes, it’s fine to wave hi if you see us in public. If you can’t wave hi to us in public then you are defining walking on eggshells to the extreme and I wonder if the friendship is even worth it at this point.

“If we normally text or email you periodically, should we maintain the same pattern/level of communication, as if things are normal, or completely stop or just slow down? (We definitely don't want to stress you, but also don't want to make a big deal of the situation so you feel awkward or abandoned in any way....what is best for you?)”

Yes, definitely slow down the communication. Checking in every so often is ok.

“When you 'come back':
I'm assuming it's best to just kind of go on as if it didn't happen? I'm imagining you maybe don't want to talk about it or maybe feel awkwardness, so just continue on as usual?”

No, do not make a big deal about it. Carry on as usual unless we want to talk about it and initiate the conversation.
 
I think that is really excellently and thoughtfully asked actually. Interesting.

I am in a very good phase with this at present and not very symptomatic so have recently realised that changes my perspective. Thats my disclaimer.

But:
Can you explain why you have to?
To survive. Yes that sounds dramatic but it isnt. Too much is happening inside my brain and I am in such crisis that cant do anything else. Like juggling terribly sharp knives. Its also too painful. Caring is too painful. Peaople are too painful. Caring is way too painful. Existing or being a human being is too painful. If you were swimming away from a shark would you want to have a nice chat with someone you love?
What are your fears if you interact with us (if you have any)?
Not fears of interacting. Inability. See above. Survival.
When you are interacting with other people, do you actually feel sort of 'normal' or are you mostly faking it to appear normal?
I never feel sort of normal when in this space. If you were swimming away from the shark would you feel normal?
If you are faking, doesn't that take a lot of energy too? (Wouldn't it be easier to just sort of isolate/interact less with everyone? Why just certain closer people?)
If I am bad enough then I the huge energy that requires is too much. If I can summon the energy to do it it helps open a pathway back to the people I am closer too. The more the door closes the harder it is to open.
Do you feel bad you have to cut us out (guilt or shame, embarrassment?) or are you too busy just trying to survive?
I am wracked with guilt and shame and it is often one of the main things keeping me away and intensifying the whole phemomenon. For me. Its the most painful part of it all for me. I happen upon a mind set of first not harming others and knowing I am makes me self despising in a way that is impossible to put into words. And the more I hate me the more I am unable to connect.
Do you realize we are aware you are avoiding us/interacting with us?
Yes.
Do you ever worry when we give you space/change our normal pattern of communication that we are angry with you or that we might leave/abandon you?
Yes sometimes. Other times I am relieved for your sake. Which helps me feel less guilty about you/
Is it because we are triggering you? Would that fluctuate? (If we were a trigger, wouldn't we always be a trigger, not just in a cycle pattern when you isolate?)
Sometimes. Triggers fluctuate. By nature the come out unannounced. Isolate is one thing. Trigger another. Sometimes overlap.
How do you feel when you try to 'come back' to us? What are you thinking then?
Ashamed guilty cautious untrusting. wary. Skeptical
But what do you need/want?
For the other person to truly be OK, unharmed from me, and able to take care of themselves or get care for themselves.
Is it still okay for us to be friendly with you
Yes. In a non demanding/ trying to get something from me way.
completely stop or just slow down?
Slow down at least. Or make it very clear you dont expect anything from me. I know its not fair. Expecting freaks the hell out of me.
When you 'come back':
For you to take care of you and be protected. Honesty. Acceptance.
 
I second what Freida said about the long post...and I didn’t even get through all of Freida’s post. Sigh.

I’m not entirely sure my response will help, but it is SO hard to act normal. It is exhausting. It is annoying. It is frustrating. It is sometimes just TOO MUCH. Not many people know my history. But the one that does-I frequently am an asshole towards her after I open up about something. Do I not like her? Hell no. She’s the first and only person that knows most of my history. Not even my husband knows. And that is terrifying. When you’ve held secrets since childhood, and have been led to believe that bad things will happen if you ever tell...it apparently doesn’t matter that logically you know everything is fine, and you try to push that other person away. I’m so thankful that my friend gets this. Sometimes I don’t even realize I am being an asshole until days afterwards, and I attempt to apologize. And honestly? If we can not have to act normal for even a few minutes, it’s huge.
I personally like my friend to reach out when I isolate. Nothing big, but just a “you ok?” She does not push for discussion, but I know that she’s there if I want to discuss.
I realize I likely didn’t answer much, but that’s just how I feel. Just the fact that you’re here and asking how to help and be supportive-that’s amazing. Everyone needs a friend like you!
 
I’ll be honest in saying that this is a reaaaaaly long post. Many of us have a hard time reading long posts so you may get fewer replies for this reason. I know you just want to understand, I’m just sharing yet another common ptsd struggle——reading comprehension


And, you won’t ever fully understand so at some point you should say ok I understand enough, now I just need to accept this for what it is.

Thanks for taking the time to answer my questions--I wasn't sure if anyone would bother going through them all, but that is much appreciated. I realize I won't ever fully understand, but all of this is an excellent help.

I guess I didn't realize reading comprehension became an issue....thanks for sharing that.

I'm glad my friend still interacts with others, I would love for him to be well and happy and not lonely--it's just been confusing when he will barely say hi and then has full, animated conversations with others....and I know I mean something him. Can you see how we'd be a little hurt? Not angry....hurt. (But hurt people often come across as angry, hence the hissy-fits you may have experienced!) And we miss you!

Regarding overthinking the waving--this is actually the most common thing that happens--Example: I'll run into him at the gym and try to wave and he'll give me a little wave (maybe) or kind of snub me. And then I wonder if I should have even LOOKED at him. (And then he'll text later to sort of apologize and have an explanation of some kind for not waving.) So yes, definitely walking on eggshells when he isolates and unsure if I should be trying to stay friendly or if even that is stressing him.
thank

Thank you again. :)
 
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