Suicide As Avoidance?

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Friday

Moderator
((Not in the clearly obvious way of being dead as the ultimate (run away!) avoidance, but sourced from avoidance))

Has anyone ever handled SI as a function of avoidance, rather than say a function of depression, pain, grief, shame, honor, etc.? Or in conjunction with any of the more commonly associated motives/foundations?

I’d never really thought about it before.. but I was talking with someone recently about triggers vs stressors (if you haven’t read this, yet? Do. Stressor vs. Trigger - What Is A Trigger? ), and how one of the reasons that avoiding triggers never works long term is that WE were there, and we’ll inevitably trigger ourselves in some way. Or in lots of ways. So it becomes paramount for sooo many reasons to learn to manage triggers and stressors (and ideally chip away at them until they aren’t triggers and stressors anymore!); rather than just attempting to avoid them, until your world gets smaller and smaller, until it’s just you.

Huh. Just you. Well THERE’S an interesting point. How does one avoid themselves? Short list, that.

I may be the only person on the planet who never made that connection :bag: I do that sort of thing. Miss the glaringly obvious.

I’m not sure what it would look like, handling SI from a position of avoidance? Really curious to hear from others who’ve taken that route, tips/tricks, your thoughts, etc.
 

Chris-duck

MyPTSD Pro
Most of my SI is avoidance based id say. Like at the time I'll come up with a million reasons why but when it comes down to it I'm not sure I've moved much past acting on SI stuff as a teen to get out of stuff I don't want to deal with. Whether that's an actual task or a thought or whatever.

Part of it has always been "I should be dead already" but a sidenote to that has been "so why deal with this?".

I think I've mostly dealt with it with making rules for myself where acting is "allowed", and where it isn't. It kinda plays on my pride cos it leaves me in a position where *technically* it's an option so I'm not "stuck" being alive, but it also plays on my pride where I'm always a bit like "yeah but am I seriously gonna act because I don't want to do/be whatever. When I could just.."

Like I think a big part of it is just adapting the usual SI stuff to your own personality ("FFS I *know* life can be good/people care/there's other options/whatever) and adapting it to your own circumstances.
 

Ronin

MyPTSD Pro
To clarify - Do you mean the Im not gonna deal with it as Im not gonna BE at all place,

The I'm not gonna deal with it AND Ill rather destroy in other ways place,

The I wont deal with it until it destroys me and if things go kaboom no f*cks place,

Or something else?

B/c imo the starting point, how much self destruct is a goal vs just a tool but not a goal, matters. If for nothing else for how easy it is to come back off from that track.
 

Rosebud

MyPTSD Pro
SI as a function of avoidance, rather than say a function of depression, pain, grief, shame, honor, etc.

I do definitely think for me, though the above complicates it, it is a function of supreme avoidance and extreme flight reaction.

Interesting thought as self as a trigger. I think it's feasible core beliefs tie in to that, so it may be all of the above. Trigger present = one's self, by virtue of fact. Another trigger reminds one's self of role, maybe shame, self-reproach, guilt, regret, etc. Core beliefs lead to little self-compassion, self-rejection. Cognitive distortions interpret absence is better than presence, for all. Avoidance of risking otherwise (esp if there could be harm); end of managing triggers/ one's self's being as a trigger, = SI.

Just my thoughts on the run.
 

Friday

Moderator
@Ronin... You’re prolly gonna hate this :bag:

...Yes?

I’ve always been told that suicide is a product of depression, but I’ve been suicidal plenty without being depressed at all, so I basically just shrugged and didn’t think any further on it. Whatever, it is what it is, nothing to be done except nod to my dance partner, and put things off as long as possible.

But all 3 of those of those pieces apply, in different times and places. Sometimes at the same time.
 

Ronin

MyPTSD Pro
@Friday, can I also ask how acute are we talking?

Given I assume hypothetical is totally off table, so we're on needa cope, but Im unclear on if you're on processing just srsly unhappy places... or if its the kinda dead end you're considering acts, because of unhappy places.

So, you good/safe?

* * *

Okay so.

With trying not to be at all so the whole thing goes away, remember it doesnt require that solution. Nuking a cockroach, where stomping it would do totally well.

Also need to remember it IS a cockroach. That it got to me so much doesnt mean its anything but. Just that it got to me.

So I can praise my head coming up with a solution... and go back looking for other ones.

Because thats A solution.

Not THE solution.

If its a Id rather destroy than...

Realize thats a good place.

In Im protecting something/one else very fiercely. By my stances. And it doesnt matter if I cant do jack squad in reality about them. Im doing somethin, cus not giving anybody what they want.

Now to also not give them my life, cos cant do more if I dont have that one. The incredibly useless sucker Im useless in is still needed gear for future acts.

Slow self destruct... slow it yet some more. And make it safer. So I cant just say f*ck it and go, finis... because Im making myself ropes to life. Requires time and effort do them right. I might not wanna. But its a job.

(Still will got a longer reply but rn, that.)
 
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Sideways

Sponsor
Suicide is definitely an avoidance strategy for me. The ideation absolutely gets more intense when my mood is lower, but it's always there.

Brain throws it in as a potential way to avoid not just life, but having to live with myself, in my own company, every damn day of that life.

I use thought diffusion. Thanks brain, I know that's your potential solution, heard about it before, don't need to think about it again right now.

Because I can work on changing my life. And definitely I can work on changing me and my relationship with myself.

So, I don't need the permanent solution, because the problem I'm trying to avoid with SI? Is currently a work in progress. Aiming at getting to the point where I don't feel the need to avoid my life, or myself, anymore.

That's recovery, yeah?
 

Friday

Moderator
Given I assume hypothetical is totally off table, so we're on needa cope, but Im unclear on if you're on processing just srsly unhappy places... or if its the kinda dead end you're considering acts, because of unhappy places.

So, you good/safe?
Yep. All’s well. More one of those coming up outta a dark time, looking at solutions for the next time. But not desperately looking, more surprised there might be a reason to look. I’ve been suicidal every day (minus a few this summer, it. was. awesome. I’d forgotten what that felt like! :D) for years, I’m used to ignoring myself / have some pretty solid rules around it, it’s just worse some times than others is all. No big deal. I’m used to living in the dark, don’t take it seriously, & I quit acting on impulse in this area looooooong time ago.

Because the vast majority of info on suicide is about depression & suicide? Which just doesn’t apply, for the most part, it was surprising to think there may be another avenue to explore pushing back on it. One of those, excited to find finger/toe holds where I’d thought was just blank wall. Hey, cool! Lookit! Wow! ...THIS might be useful! kind of thing. If I think of it like THIS, might could come at it like THAT, aaaaand... Let’s not reinvent the wheel, here, and ask others! :sneaky:
 

Mach123

MyPTSD Pro
IDK but I really like this thread out of sheer novelty as it just never occurred to me. I spent plenty of time depressed and the rest of it Suicidaliy depressed. Not depressed equals happy, even though it's not and it doesn't, but I forget what that's like and I feel "unhappy". I shouldn't though because all I have to do is think about it, which I'm afraid to do mostly. I guess that's why I never examined it. I'm afraid it'll come back. I never ever thought of SI apart from severe depression. So thanks for reminding me again and I hope you feel better.
 

grit

MyPTSD Pro
Interesting post.
Is not there some expression suicidal people being calm before the deed...like calm before the storm so that to me feel now thatt may be not everybody committing suicide is depressed.

I think you are poking a very critical area and a lot of times we do not challenge catogerization because we will be told you do not have the credentials.

I do not have suicide but I am learning I had homicide...which to is like antidote in bizaaro world to suicide.
I did not want to eliminate me when I was being abused but I wished my prepretator got the shaft.
Now I would argue ....one learned to save others more than self. I learned to save me over the other vice versa.
Now thank goodness I did not kill anyone but I could have just like people attempt suicide....I attempted homicide inside.... vengeance is a poison but never acted out.

Suicide is hardly challenged area and I am really interested in that direction it is not always depression but a learned experience like helplessness etc.
 

Justmehere

Moderator
Suicidal ideation is a way I avoid myself. It gives something else to focus on, in a way. Sort of. Really hard to explain. It is an escape.

The opposite of avoidance is approach? If I want to avoid grocery stores, the way to undo that is slow exposure. Walk by a grocery store. Etc. Or to do all the things to bring the stress cup level down.

Self exposure to self? An old decent therapist used to have me pay attention to something tolerable about myself. I hated it. Then it got easier. Maybe what he was getting at was self exposure to self in a way...? Hmmm.
 
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