Venting about misguided son, need support

[OliveJewel]

I’m so upset about my son. He’s 14 and he’s not going to school, shoplifting to buy drugs, having unprotected sex, and verbally abusing me and my daughter. It hurts like a motherf*cker. Parts of me want to scream at him but his dad already does that. Parts of me want to rescue him and get angry that I can’t. Parts of me want to change the locks and abandon him.

Residential treatment is out of the question as is any kind of therapy. He won’t go and his dad won’t enforce it. Residential and even IOP is beyond anything I can afford. Rehab won’t take him unless he’s addicted to hard drugs—I know because I called multiple ones and asked.

I drove him to school today but didn’t walk him to the door and he didn’t even go in because his dad saw on the cell phone tracking, which he usually turns off anyway.

His dad told me to cancel the phone today. My service said I can’t do anymore line suspensions because I used them all up for the year. So I’ll have to cancel completely and that might cost money. Plus then we won’t have a tracking device on him or an emergency line for him in case he ever needs it.

He screams obscenities at me daily and sometimes his sister. My neighbors are very understanding and don’t call the cops like my old one did.

There are so many ways I blame myself. All I can do is try to distract myself. I can go back to the group meetings for parents of addicted loved ones even though they are intended for parents of adults.

I get so mad at him but do my best not to unleash on him. I have gotten way way better. I want to believe he has a heart when he says “I love you” but it’s increasingly seeming like just a way to manipulate me.

I can’t stop crying or do anything. I just want to freeze myself. I don’t have SI about it, so that’s good. I tried reaching out to two friends to vent but they haven’t responded. I know it’s a lot to ask of them as it’s so heavy.

I feel alone and sad. I would really like some support, not really looking for advice. I feel like I’m in a kind of jail with him, waiting for him to grow up and hoping he doesn’t vandalize the apartment or my car any more than he already has, though that was when he was younger. Like other parents of addicts I actually wish for him to be arrested and put in prison because then I would know where he is.

I wonder how much of my grief is narcissistic injury, sadness and fear that he is an extension of me and therefore reflects badly on my image. If that is the case then I need to square up with myself. Some of the grief is loss of who I thought he would be. That is fantasy, which I can recognize when I’m ready. When I sweep away the sadness then rage surfaces. Is that narcissistic rage, I ask myself? Again that he is a reflection of me or the choices I made about him in the past?

What is justified sadness? That he could be heading toward prison? There are worse things than prison, though that isn’t a cake walk. What is justified anger? That he treats me and his sister like crap.

The anger leads me nowhere. The sadness is a kind of future tripping. But I’m not *okay* with his behavior or his choices. The only thing I can think to do is go back to the PAL meetings and work on myself. 5 days until the next meeting.

 

[Friday]

Teenagers are brutal.

Being one. Loving one.

 

[Movingforward10]

@OliveJewel , through all this:how you are coping and responding and reflecting and thinking is pretty darn impressive.

He won't be behaving like this forever. It will change.

 

[caroline_13]

I’m so upset about my son. He’s 14 and he’s not going to school, shoplifting to buy drugs, having unprotected sex, and verbally abusing me and my daughter. It hurts like a motherf*cker. Parts of me want to scream at him but his dad already does that. Parts of me want to rescue him and get angry that I can’t. Parts of me want to change the locks and abandon him.

Residential treatment is out of the question as is any kind of therapy. He won’t go and his dad won’t enforce it. Residential and even IOP is beyond anything I can afford. Rehab won’t take him unless he’s addicted to hard drugs—I know because I called multiple ones and asked.

I drove him to school today but didn’t walk him to the door and he didn’t even go in because his dad saw on the cell phone tracking, which he usually turns off anyway.

His dad told me to cancel the phone today. My service said I can’t do anymore line suspensions because I used them all up for the year. So I’ll have to cancel completely and that might cost money. Plus then we won’t have a tracking device on him or an emergency line for him in case he ever needs it.

He screams obscenities at me daily and sometimes his sister. My neighbors are very understanding and don’t call the cops like my old one did.

There are so many ways I blame myself. All I can do is try to distract myself. I can go back to the group meetings for parents of addicted loved ones even though they are intended for parents of adults.

I get so mad at him but do my best not to unleash on him. I have gotten way way better. I want to believe he has a heart when he says “I love you” but it’s increasingly seeming like just a way to manipulate me.

I can’t stop crying or do anything. I just want to freeze myself. I don’t have SI about it, so that’s good. I tried reaching out to two friends to vent but they haven’t responded. I know it’s a lot to ask of them as it’s so heavy.

I feel alone and sad. I would really like some support, not really looking for advice. I feel like I’m in a kind of jail with him, waiting for him to grow up and hoping he doesn’t vandalize the apartment or my car any more than he already has, though that was when he was younger. Like other parents of addicts I actually wish for him to be arrested and put in prison because then I would know where he is.

I wonder how much of my grief is narcissistic injury, sadness and fear that he is an extension of me and therefore reflects badly on my image. If that is the case then I need to square up with myself. Some of the grief is loss of who I thought he would be. That is fantasy, which I can recognize when I’m ready. When I sweep away the sadness then rage surfaces. Is that narcissistic rage, I ask myself? Again that he is a reflection of me or the choices I made about him in the past?

What is justified sadness? That he could be heading toward prison? There are worse things than prison, though that isn’t a cake walk. What is justified anger? That he treats me and his sister like crap.

The anger leads me nowhere. The sadness is a kind of future tripping. But I’m not *okay* with his behavior or his choices. The only thing I can think to do is go back to the PAL meetings and work on myself. 5 days until the next meeting.

Sitting with you on this.

I know you don't want advice: just a thought, does your insurance or government cover a treatment program, preferably in patient?

 

[NoWhereKnowWhere]

Family therapy for you (and his father if he’s willing and any siblings he has) You deserve support and advice and a place to talk all this out so you can try to support him. You can’t pour from an empty cup.

I was a wild child drinking and taking drug, skipping school getting into trouble. My parents didn’t know half of it and didn’t care enough to find out. I calmed down a lot in my late teens I hope it’s the same with your son.

 

[enough]

Is there still something that he gets from home if he needs it? A place to stay when there are no alternatives? Food and a shower anytime he needs it? Health insurance wether he appreciates it or not? Bail when there is no other source and it is needed? At fourteen, the stuff that kept me tied to my parents was at these levels. If it had been made clear to me that those things had been rescinded I would have dropped my end of that lifeline. I gradually began to appreciate that I had those things even if I didn’t use them, I really appreciated the health care insurance a few times, from there I had the basis for a relationship renewal, eventually they came to me for renewal in an unexpected way when I was in my fifties!
Don’t give up, don’t shut the doors, keep a light on. That’s my advice.
At 14, I could have disappeared for good. In my state you had to have a permit to work at age 14. Once I had a work permit I had money and could pay a share of rent, at 18 I could rent a place by myself in my state. Once I had a job that had health insurance I was out of their orbit and hard to reach for a very long time, but I stayed in contact.
Just a few more pushes away and it would have been a bounce out of their lives, those four years between 14 and 18 shaped my relationship with my parents from then on.
Advice for handling a misbehaving teenager? Got none, just keep the ties intact and hope for a slow return to the direction you had him set to go before it all went let ker-blooey, try to let him know he has help when he needs it and look for signs of that moral compass you gave him, he still has it and will need it later, that was the gift he has even if he doesn’t know it yet you can hope. As long as there is a lifeline you can hope.

 

[PreciousChild]

I wonder how much of my grief is narcissistic injury, sadness and fear that he is an extension of me and therefore reflects badly on my image. If that is the case then I need to square up with myself. Some of the grief is loss of who I thought he would be. That is fantasy, which I can recognize when I’m ready. When I sweep away the sadness then rage surfaces. Is that narcissistic rage, I ask myself? Again that he is a reflection of me or the choices I made about him in the past?

I think witnessing your child have problems is even more stressful than going through problems yourself. You see them make bad choices, have no control over that, but have to accept the fall out from them and see your child suffer unnecessarily. At least when it comes to my own choices, I feel like I have some control over them.

I just wanted to address the above quote from you. In previous posts that I wrote, you gave me good thoughts to reflect on when I was wondering about whether my issues stemmed from narcissistically derived dynamics. I still think there are connections between narcissism and codependency. In terms of what you are experiencing, I think the issue is more codependent than narcissistic. I relate to the sense I'm picking up from you of feeling entangled and wrapped up in the welfare of your child. You're sad and angry because you want better for him. I think the best thing for both of you is for you to disengage more and release yourself from being responsible for another person, which you aren't anymore, not when he's already 14 making decisions with his big-ass body. I am guessing that asking whether you are motivated by narcissism feeds into any guilt that might impel you to continue to try and take responsibility for his life. Whether you were the perfect parent, the imperfect parent, or even an abusive parent, he is what he is now, and must navigate the world on his own two feet.

I am so codependent, so I may not be the best person to give you advice on codependency. But I'm working on it in my own way with my college-aged child. I'm still trying to carry him despite the fact that he spent a year away on a college campus and still survived. lol. But that year helped me a lot to gain distance and perspective. What I learned is that my fears and worries were ostensibly about my son, but they were in reality completely my own. His own struggles were always independent of me and he was dealing with them in his own way. My fears and worries had no added value for him. It was up to me to simply release those fears and focus more on other things.

By the way, 13-15 are the toughest ages in a child's life, imo. It's a matter of hanging in there.

 

[Loveann]

I’m so upset about my son. He’s 14 and he’s not going to school, shoplifting to buy drugs, having unprotected sex, and verbally abusing me and my daughter. It hurts like a motherf*cker. Parts of me want to scream at him but his dad already does that. Parts of me want to rescue him and get angry that I can’t. Parts of me want to change the locks and abandon him.

Residential treatment is out of the question as is any kind of therapy. He won’t go and his dad won’t enforce it. Residential and even IOP is beyond anything I can afford. Rehab won’t take him unless he’s addicted to hard drugs—I know because I called multiple ones and asked.

I drove him to school today but didn’t walk him to the door and he didn’t even go in because his dad saw on the cell phone tracking, which he usually turns off anyway.

His dad told me to cancel the phone today. My service said I can’t do anymore line suspensions because I used them all up for the year. So I’ll have to cancel completely and that might cost money. Plus then we won’t have a tracking device on him or an emergency line for him in case he ever needs it.

He screams obscenities at me daily and sometimes his sister. My neighbors are very understanding and don’t call the cops like my old one did.

There are so many ways I blame myself. All I can do is try to distract myself. I can go back to the group meetings for parents of addicted loved ones even though they are intended for parents of adults.

I get so mad at him but do my best not to unleash on him. I have gotten way way better. I want to believe he has a heart when he says “I love you” but it’s increasingly seeming like just a way to manipulate me.

I can’t stop crying or do anything. I just want to freeze myself. I don’t have SI about it, so that’s good. I tried reaching out to two friends to vent but they haven’t responded. I know it’s a lot to ask of them as it’s so heavy.

I feel alone and sad. I would really like some support, not really looking for advice. I feel like I’m in a kind of jail with him, waiting for him to grow up and hoping he doesn’t vandalize the apartment or my car any more than he already has, though that was when he was younger. Like other parents of addicts I actually wish for him to be arrested and put in prison because then I would know where he is.

I wonder how much of my grief is narcissistic injury, sadness and fear that he is an extension of me and therefore reflects badly on my image. If that is the case then I need to square up with myself. Some of the grief is loss of who I thought he would be. That is fantasy, which I can recognize when I’m ready. When I sweep away the sadness then rage surfaces. Is that narcissistic rage, I ask myself? Again that he is a reflection of me or the choices I made about him in the past?

What is justified sadness? That he could be heading toward prison? There are worse things than prison, though that isn’t a cake walk. What is justified anger? That he treats me and his sister like crap.

The anger leads me nowhere. The sadness is a kind of future tripping. But I’m not *okay* with his behavior or his choices. The only thing I can think to do is go back to the PAL meetings and work on myself. 5 days until the next meeting.

My son and l went through something similar and still are. Maybe if he was to go through the juvenile courts it will help straighten him out. Sometimes the court helps get you family counseling too. We had a family counselor come to our home. Skipping school, and stealing the juvenile court should be involved in some way. Talk with someone at his school they can help you to get to the right person you need through the court.

 

[Weemie]

There's always the potential that he will mature beyond this. Sometimes the only way to create behavioral change is to experience the consequences of your behavior. You can't tell teenagers anything, they already know it all.

I was way worse as a kid (using hard drugs, sex work, assaulting people, I tortured a guy once, I engaged in vigilantism and ruined several people's lives by getting them fired or destroying their livelihoods and property), setting fires (one got on the news).

Once I got handcuffed to a stretcher because I took 20 Ativan and screamed at my mom to give me more drug money and then tried to hit her. My frontal lobe inhibition was totally decimated as I had never physically tried to hurt her before.

Dropped out of school, refused to work (these ended up being valid since I am disabled but back then it was "rebellious"). I could go on and on. I didn't end up in prison or dead and I now have a good relationship with my mom and sisters and stepmom. We can talk openly about the damage we have both done to one another. It's possible!

Behavioral and conduct disorders are very overwhelming for all parties including the ones who have them. I've struggled with ASPD symptoms for years and as much as I hurt other people it also negatively impacted me. I was fortunate that as I learned to be prosocial and overcome my trauma that my family was willing to reconnect with me. Back then I was basically a feral animal.

I hope both of you are able to receive some measure of stabilizing support in the future. I will say what saved me and my trajectory that was clearly headed to prison was intensive residential treatment specifically designed to address appetitive aggression in children from extreme violent conditioning. Most of this was a bit different than traditional talk therapy and was focused on being in our communities, giving us adult responsibilities and leadership training, attending religious institutions (this is less for the God aspect and was more about the socialization component) and identifying both positive and negatives to harmful and antisocial behavior.

Essentially we were trying to get our needs met and did not have other skills to use and/or grew up in environments where those skills would be ridiculed or even put us at risk. Unlearning toxic masculinity and all that shit. A big focus on roles and what we viewed our role as (for us it was soldier to civilian or gang member to civilian - some people see themselves as tough, unstoppable, fearless, etc). In my opinion this form of therapy is way more effective for CD spectrum kids than any other as it directly addresses the core malfunction: coexistence with others.

While you may not be able to find a program like this maybe those are skills you can try to work on in some way with him. At the end of the day if he doesn't want to engage he won't, for some people it can take years and years or not at all. As long as you have that connection open to the possibility he could return to you (while protecting yourself from harm) you have not failed. Humans are complicated and we hurt each other all the time. It's about what we do afterward that civilizes us.

What is justified sadness? That he could be heading toward prison? There are worse things than prison, though that isn’t a cake walk. What is justified anger? That he treats me and his sister like crap.

All of this is justified. Prison is a terrible atmosphere and it inherently destabilizes the family unit by purposefully separating the individual from key connections. It also encourages more and more violent behavior and can result in violence and harm being done to your son (potentially even putting his life at risk especially in a male prison - sexist yes but observable correct), none of which is easy to consider.

At the same time sometimes prison is what it takes to get people on the right path. All the talk and therapy doesn't do it but they spend five years in prison and things look different. Your freedom is gone and petty shoplifting and drugs and the occasional fight suddenly put you in an atmosphere rife with gang violence (I was a member of a gang for years and they are brutal and entirely focused on a warrior mindset, brainwashing, toxic masculinity and racism and drug abuse and murder and rape) and hardened criminals. That's a real consequence. You did it to yourself.

There are studies that show many criminals don't start to develop remorse until after lengthy imprisonment because they are confined alone with their own thoughts for long periods of time. Some prisoners even say they need to be in prison in order to avoid harming other people. In that way they may confer positive benefit out of it that is enough to outweigh the negatives. Sometimes people receive forensic narration therapy (what I went thru) and they get elevated to positions of leadership that encourages them to act responsibly for another person's wellbeing.

In addition it's clear he is hurting you and the rest of his family by being verbally abusive - that is not narcissistic injury, it is a rational response to mistreatment by someone who you raised from infancy and expressed love and vulnerability to at some point. Maybe the expectation of love from him is unrealistic but it's not abnormal. I think most families would agree that parents and kids expressing love to each other is the ideal outcome. It makes sense that you are hurt that this is not the case in your relationship.

 

[OliveJewel]

He no longer lives with me, for better or worse. I see him occasionally. He is in the process of switching from the charter school for delinquents where he was in 9th grade back to his old junior high school in 8th grade. (he never matriculated). He has taken to drinking bottles of vodka and passing out anywhere, soiling himself but the last time I spoke to him he said he wouldn’t do that anymore. I told his dad to take him to rehab but his dad said that the blackout drinking only happened twice.

@Loveann The school admin said that the police are no longer involved in truancy (he said, “those days are long gone”) and a police officer told me that the local jail has a policy of only keeping thieves for 24 hours, we’re he to get caught. My main option would be driving him to rehab myself but without his dad’s support it wouldn’t matter and he wouldn’t go anyway.

the potential that he will mature beyond this.

I pray for him. My older son just turned 18 and has made a remarkable turn in perspective toward life and responsibility. Sober. Meditating. Got his license. Getting his GED.

basically a feral animal.

I was just telling someone today that I accidentally raised my boys as feral animals by having no consequences for them until 5 years ago. The words boundaries and consequences were not even in my vocabulary and I was basically suicidal but hiding it. I was naive and ignorant to my own trauma history and living with my abuser—my dad—who was helping raise my boys. I had a steep learning curve to escape all that. So I guess that was a lot for the boys to handle:

As long as you have that connection open to the possibility he could return to you (while protecting yourself from harm) you have not failed.

Thank you. 💜 I believe it.

 

[Loveann]

There is hope because he said he no longer wants to pass out after drinking. Hang in there Mom

 

[beaneeboo]

Hang on in there... It sounds so incredibly hard but the fact you're here reaching out and trying your hardest to figure out what to do is testimony to what a good mum you are - you give a s***....

My brother was absolutely awful to my mum for years... he eventually saw the error of his ways in his early 20s but I swear that was only possible because my mum didn't give up on him...

When my son starts treating me badly I get so triggered and I find it hard not to become the needy one in the dynamic- I'm the mum. So I have to try to stop myself from going into a spiral of 'it's all my fault... that just fuels the dynamic further...

On reading your post I wondered whether you've ever recorded your son to show him back what his behaviour is like after when he's calm. He may have a greatly reduced awareness about how he comes across...I know some people would say that's bad advice! But just a thought...