Women/feminists deny male victimhood

Thank you @Freida for suggesting I make this thread. I am terrified, but I have to run towards the fear.

I have a problem in that when I am dysregulated I look for articles online in which women, usually feminists, deny that men can be sexual abuse victims.

And there are so, so many. There are thousands of articles that deny that men can be victims, especially victims of female perpetrators. There are many, many feminist peer-reviewed articles that say men can never be victims of domestic violence, and there are many that say men are to blame for their own sexual abuse.

I feel strongly that intersectionality is bullshit and is consistently used as an excuse to f*ck over male survivors. An example would be: Since men are privileged in a patriarchal society, men cannot be systematically abused, and therefore should never have the same resources for healing as women, who are lesser privileged and are systematically abused. A couple of feminists actually made this argument to me a few years ago.

@Freida thinks that the women of MyPTSD will tell me that this is bullshit, that men can be abused as much as women can, and men deserve to have the same resources as women. So I leave it here for all to respond. Women of MyPTSD, what are your thoughts?
 

RubyBlue

Policy Enforcement
I know you aren’t my biggest fan, that’s cool, love you too ?.

But.

She’s absolutely right. Abuse knows no gender. It crosses all genders, classes, socioeconomics, races, theres literally no one “thing” that abuse has become exclusive to. Men absolutely can be abused, and have been, I actually think it’s increasing to a degree. Abusers- are not exclusive to men at all. Ever hear that female prisons are much more vicious than men’s prisons? There’s a reason for that.
 

Sideways

Sponsor
If I set out to find articles arguing the world is flat? I'll find plenty.
Doesn't change that it's bullshit.

Anyone can end up being a victim of abuse. Men, women, transgender, non-binary, and any and every other gender variant.

And every single one of them deserves support.
 

Freida

Sponsor
Very proud of you for making this thread!!!! I know it had to have been tough :hug:
I've blah blahed before but I'm going to do it here too...
I have personally known men who were victims of DV -- in both straight and gay relationships. I also knew some of the women who were the abusers and they were horrible people. Just like the guys who assaults their partner.

And we got a lot of 911 calls from men who needed help
When I first started back in the 90s male victims were pretty rare and they got a lot of crap from both men and women. Neither gender would buy that a guy could be a victim. However, as the years went on it became more common and the guys became more comfortable identifying themselves as victims. It was a long, slow process but by the time I left in 2017 no one even batted an eye when the call was for a male victim of dv. It was just a normal call on a normal day.

The feminists that you read are no different than any other radical group. It doesn't matter if it's the KKK, Neo Nazis, eco terrorists or feminists. They are all the same thing --- hate groups. Which automatically puts them in the "what a bunch of booolshit" catagory.

So yes. Men can be victims.
 

joeylittle

Administrator
There are many, many feminist peer-reviewed articles that say men can never be victims of domestic violence, and there are many that say men are to blame for their own sexual abuse.
Indulge me on this for a minute - can you give me some links to read? I'm not saying you're wrong about this, and I'm familiar with this particular line of bullshit thinking. I'd just like to get an even clearer picture of what you're reading.
 

Movingforward10

MyPTSD Pro
I'm a woman. I'm a staunch feminist.
I have never experienced the views or articles that you talk about so I imagine they are an incredibly small minority of people who are ignorant enough to think that?
Of course anyone can abuse anyone.
Just because most abusers are men doesn't make all abusers men.
And any gender is able to be a victim/survivor.

My question would be: why read articles like that? Perhaps you need to work on the need to do that rather than focusing on the content of the articles you have sought out?
Surely there are so many many many more that are supportive and helpful?
 
can you give me some links to read?
I'd really rather not, because right now I'm fairly well regulated and those articles tend to trigger me real bad. However, here's a page for male victims from the National Center on Domestic and Sexual Violence, which you would think should know better, but they don't. Mixed in with some helpful articles are two articles that absolutely destroyed me when I read them earlier in my healing journey.
https://vawnet.org/sites/default/files/materials/files/2016-09/AR_MaleVictims.pdf
http://www.ncdsv.org/images/MaleVictimsOfDVaSubstantiveAndMethodologicalResearchReview_2001.pdf
Basically the way [EDIT: some] feminists think about men and IPV is: men can only be perps; men who claim to be victims are actually perps; the number of actual male victims of IPV is so tiny we can safely ignore them; and women are killed during events of IPV and men are not, so we should always ignore male victims in favor of women.
You can also go to the Duluth Group's website and read pretty much anything they have to say about men and domestic violence.

Doing a Google search for some combination of the terms feminism, intersectionality, male victims, rape, etc. will get you tons of things about how varying degrees of the patriarchy, toxic masculinity, and men themselves are to blame for men being sexually abused, assaulted, and raped.

Almost all academics are intersectional feminists who look at masculinity only from a deficit model. To them, there's absolutely nothing worthwhile about "masculinities" (which is the term they use, since they claim there are many ways of expressing manhood, all bad; however, they never talk about "femininities"). Because all women are oppressed, they are intrinsically morally superior to men. I find dissertations often express this most clearly. So do a Google search for intersectionality, masculinities, male victims, and rape and you'll find a LOT of things blaming men for their own sexual abuse.
My question would be: why read articles like that? Perhaps you need to work on the need to do that rather than focusing on the content of the articles you have sought out?
This is a very old self-harming behavior that I go to in my absolute worst dysregulation ... which I've been experiencing lately. I am working on this in trauma therapy, but I also thought it would be good to have a place I can go when my brain is eating itself that would help me to counter my thoughts. If anyone had a problem with men, you'd think it would be women with PTSD.

Shit shit shit shit. Triggered myself.
 
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The Albatross

MyPTSD Pro
That even the discussion of the distortion and distress is triggering in a forum group is all the more reason to press forward and bust the cognitive distortion. Manage and come back to the topic as you are able.

A lot of the issue at the core level is not just the content, but the generalizations people make on all "sides" of most likely every "issue/topic". Seeking out things that support a healthy self/other/world view can be a counter balance to the self harming behavior where you seek out or find and/or read stuff that supports the distortion. Like the thought... "If anyone had a problem with men, you'd think it would be women with PTSD." The trick is that this unhelpful thought... is a generalization along the lines of what groups who are or have been victimized unintentionally sometimes Do. In REBT that would be acquiring "other acceptance" or "world acceptance"

REBT techniques can help you with that... because the irrational bit is to approach any topical article on any subject let alone trauma and expecting it to "not be geared to" the group on whose website it may appear. For me... it was the dawning/realization that no one group/modality/author can pitch to my case particulars and that is okay. Take what you need and leave the rest... has to be normalized. Fact based REBT approaches and arresting the triggers helped me a lot.

"Women/feminists deny male victimhood" is another generalization. The filter is: is it right? Is it true? Is it just? Is it good (or good-willed)? If it is not... then the group or material is not necessarily healthy. Some are. It is a hard slog to find a healthy group.

A personal example would have been early on here and in other recovery forum or peer groups about the combo of both physical and psychological aspects of vaginismus. Not the kind of thing that is generally discussed. When the rubber hits the road, online articles or material is not as helpful or assistive. My own unique situation isn't general... it's a very small percentage. I expect your own unique situation is that ways about some things... though not the over arching distortion about whether or not men can be victims.

Dunno if it's helpful or not, but there ya go.
 
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Invisible Fire

MyPTSD Pro
I am a woman with PTSD and I have to say that although I can not give the links but I have heard and read things similar to what you are referring to. I completly believe anyone can be a victim/survivor of abuse. I find these people who say these things to be narrow minded and hateful. I have been around people who also find PTSD to be a made up thing for people to "whine and complain". I try to avoid these toxic people. I am sorry you have been made to feel invalidated. I know for me gender aside not feeling validated has been a huge trigger for me.
 

grit

MyPTSD Pro
I really feel and understand your lost in this experience. Narcissistic abuse is like a stench. It gets stuck to your skin and hard to get rid of.

Men cannot be abused or be victimized is the same brutal global belief of all mothers love their children....I often laugh at these stupidities so much that I go either I am insane to know for sure otherwise, or the rest of the world is insane and then I go ...probably both are true to a point!

There is a political journey and self journey. Nothing most of us can do about others' political journey and agenda (the need to become so contrarian just to make name for themselves) but for our self journey, it is good to process the deep hatred and rage your ex partner induced in you while she absolutely destroyed (or at least attempted seriously) your inner peace and find your way back or at least accept she really impacted you so deeply, so damagingly, but you can choose how to move forward.

I am in the crowd, that most people believe we are all human and can be abused emotionally, sexually and physically equally given certain circumstances. From this experience, you are given a great opportunity to have an eye for the nuance of adult male domestic abuse (which BTW as you get it so far is not a mainstream topic anyways) and you can choose to continue to be victimized or to share your experience to help other men to make sense of this deeply shameful experience.

Regardless, these comments do not lessen or take away, you are hurting and have survived meeting with the devil (no religious connotation whatsoever).
 

Movingforward10

MyPTSD Pro
Somerandomguy,
I won't quote your message you wrote is it triggered you. I'm sorry about that.
I *think* I what you are saying.
Rest assured 'feminists' are not evil people who think men can not be survivors of abuse. I have a degree in women's studies and never did a lecturer tell me other wise! I'm gay and spend most of my time in female identified spaces, and again: I haven't heard these discussions.
Women and feminists, as a general group are not the enemy. Of course there are women and feminists that are ignorant, mean, unfriendly, unhelpful etc. Just like there are in any sector of society.

Perhaps try and hold onto the knowledge that: you are believed. By everyone here.
I hear your pain.
I'm sorry that you went through what you did.
You being male, and whatever gender the person who hurt you, does not diminish what you went through.

I hope you find a way to stop reading those articles.
 

joeylittle

Administrator
I appreciate you braving the trigger to point me towards some reading, @somerandomguy. And I'm looking forward to getting to know your trigger, better.

I know where I stand on the topic of male victims and female perpetrators, and am not expecting that viewpoint to change. All people can be victims of abuse, assault...any horror that can be inflicted on a human can be inflicted on any human, by any human. No-one holds the monopoly on monstrosity.

And good job for you, starting this thread.
 
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