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Message: <blockquote data-quote="internal" data-source="post: 1747412" data-attributes="member: 50749">my impression of having spoke with so many indeviduals that belief this type of thing. is that they tend to believe that "at some point" the suffering will cease and that it will all have had a grand meaning. that makes all the suffering that had happened before hand, justifiable.that all the war and famine and things will usher in a new era of such peace and prosperity that we cold not even under stand. and it would be this mythical and supernatural happiness. which to me that sounds insane. because it essentially says that there is justifiable suffering. which is what most christians seem to believe. this concept of sin and punishment and what not that pervedes the literature is indecative of that.the reality is that all suffering is bad and even if it led to paradise it would still be bad. you can't just erase all the impact of the suffering you did. it's like a parent beating their child for their own good. maybe the child grew up to be a doctor. it doesn't make beating them correct. it just makes it something you did.but of course unfortunetely that what happens is that in these arguments which are less of a person's personal believes as they are coming at you and trying to convince you of things, that they are not rational people. i don't have much problem with individual religious people. but being told that "god has a plan for me" and "it all worked out and god looked after you because you have a beautiful family!"like, shut up? can you f*cking behave yourself? just shut up. please leave. if god were looking after me he would have send a bolt of lightning to my family to fry them from the inside out from the first moments i was born. god is not responsible for my success. i am. "but god isn't a vending machine-" no, he isn't, and that's exactly, exactly what that argument supposes.that god as he is conceptuelized is not here to help us. that the suffering we endure is purposeful and justifiable. and any being who claims that, is sadistic. any being who says that suffering is important, is a sadist, because that is what sadistic people value. so "god loves us" must logically be f*cking bullshit.and that calls into question every other supposition that has ever been made. on top of it just being plainly and linearly ridiculous.</blockquote>

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