News Why It's So Hard To Talk To White People About Racism

[ms spock]

@Ms Spock Made up my mind about what?

I was wondering @Rumors, did you watch the video and read the first article of this thread - because that is what is being discussed in this thread. It helps if we know what each other is talking about.

 

[Anarchy]

You are right @Ms Spock pock , there's sufficeint ground for a new thread there. I'll try to kick it off in a few hours (after work).

 

[Anarchy]

On topic.

I'm not going to try to excuse racism, but I do want to explore the ideas.

Let's say I owned a business (I don't); turning away a customer who would have paid me, is my loss, and probably a competitor's gain, as the customer probably still wants the good or service from somewhere, and my competitor, Blogs, down the street will likely welcome the extra trade.

If it is my business, and my pocket that is taking the loss, why can't I be as picky as I want to be, or can afford to be about who I sell to or serve, or employ?

Perhaps I don't like people with ginger hair (I'm stealing that one from South Park). or perhaps I don't like people who wear Nike trainers.

A sale or a contract is volountary - both sides have to consent, if one side doesn't then it just doesn't take place, there might be a bit of inconvenience involved, for the time taken to have found out that the person isn't willing to do the job or sell the good, but no one is actually harmed.

If I am forced to sell to the person whom I don't want to sell to, or provide a service to them, who is claiming to have rights over my body and my property to force me to do that?

If I am forced, am I likely to put my usual care and effort into it? or, am I likely to be passive aggressive, vindictive and bloody minded about it?

What is coerced labour usually called?

what is communal control over property and labour usually called?

are those two bloody institutions actually preferable to whatever personal foibles someone might have about who they like or dislike?

 

[Kintsugi]

I've been pushing this talk in chat. It is so good. I think you'll like it @Ms Spock

https://www.ted.com/talks/verna_myers_how_to_overcome_our_biases_walk_boldly_toward_them?language=en

The talk is aimed, compassionately, at this rhetoric:

@Ms Spock Made up my mind about what? That I think we should all start living like human beings instead of the color of our skin? Is that such an atrocity?

 

[anonymous]

@Ms Spock the directive that you describe that existed in the school system reminds me of the many laws that were written to support racist ideals. I think most people are ignorant to the fact tat such laws existed, which is probably why they don't understand how racism is in fact institutionalized. An example of one such law that was local to a county that I used to live in, If a white person married a Chinese person (gold rush times) they automatically lost their U.S. Citizenship. I learned about this and other laws and similarly discriminatory practices from a California history class. There were many students in the class who rolled their eyes and scoffed whenever the professor talked about the way racist ideals shaped public policies. It's strange to me when people are being taught real history, and still hold on to denial.

 

[Kintsugi]

Also, while I'm on a roll...

This American Life teams up with Propublica reporting on hired actors seeking housing. Some of the actors are told none are available. Their fairer counterparts aren't having any problems. Interesting dialogue from the actors included. Act II, This American Life reports on the implementation of the Fair Housing Act and its much-reviled political proponent.
http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/512/house-rules

 

[anonymous]

@Simply Simon i have experienced housing discrimination first hand on two separate occasions, in the San Francisco Bay Area, and in the last 10 years. When I went to collect keys from a property management group to look at a house that was for rent I was told it had been rented already. Less than 2 hours later when my white male boyfriend showed up at their office he was given the keys, he went and looked at the place and then he was given an application to rent. When he arrived at our apartment and excitedly told me how great the house was I was floored. I got on the phone and called the woman back and asked about the apartment and she told me that if I left her my drivers license she would give me the keys and let me go look at the house. This stuff still happens everywhere. This is how certain people are kept out of certain neighborhoods, they are simply not given the chance. She took one look at me and decided it was rented already because she didn't want my pigment ruining the neighborhood.

 

[Kintsugi]

Anonymous, just remember, if you move to the "right" neighborhood for "your sort of people" and things go a little too well...

Act II, "The Plan," gentrification: http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/350/human-resources

 

[Anarchy]

She took one look at me and decided it was rented already because she didn't want my pigment ruining the neighborhood.

Upsetting, insulting and a waste of your time - but the property owner's loss too, if they passed up a good tennant on the basis of appearance.

 

[Ronin]

Race is a funny thing to me, in that how people view it depending on where one is and one's origins is pretty hilarious from a distance. Back a while I was of the wrong clan, then I was from the wrong state and wrong continent, then I was wrong skin color, then I was wrong religion-ethnicity blend, then I was wrong.... giimme a break.

Hate is hate and concerns me, personal safety are different things that concern me, but most of the time? People are just people, good and bad. There's good people to be found everywhere, the walls aren't our skin, but our values.

 

[ms spock]

I've been pushing this talk in chat. It is so good. I think you'll like it @Ms Spock

https://www.ted.com/talks/verna_myers_how_to_overcome_our_biases_walk_boldly_toward_them?language=en

The ways in which racial difference is changing people's possibilities - keeping them from thriving - beautifully put.

I posted it in my course forums. Thanks @Simply Simon!

 

[ms spock]

I think the concept of white privilege is really relevant, and also incredibly easy to gloss over into meaning something it does not quite mean. Anyway, thought I'd share.

http://www.filmsforaction.org/articles/white-privilege-explained-in-one-simple-comic/

We got this a month ago in my university course, it is brilliant.